Need Advise On Choosing PWC

[Alex F]

To add more fun time to our boating advantures I'm thinking on getting a PWC to play around and pull some water toys like tube and skies. I never owned one, so this market is very new to me.

Since 320DA doesn't have enough support on the swim platform, I will be towing the PWC with tow bars. I'm looking for the following considerations:
1. Reliability and easy maintenance.
2. Three seater.
3. Lightest weight but good stability.
4. enough horse power to pull a skier, but I don't need a monster.
5. it should have reverse.

The models I favor so far are Yamaha and Sea-Doo. But, there are so many to choose from, could you guys give me some tips and help me stear to the right dorection.

Thanks,
Alex.

 

[fc3]

Kawasaki, too.

I pulled a skier, tubes, and all kinds of stuff with a puny little Kawasaki 750 with all of maybe 80 horsepower. You don't need 255 for towing. But 255 is more fun!

Never saw a three seater without reverse, but that does not mean there's one or two models like that.

Some of the older skis, heck even the new Honda have miserable and very wet rides. Try before you buy! My Kawi was nearly impossible to ride while seated. OK, it was possible, if you don't mind getting your face deluged with green water directed straight up at you by the bow. Nice reliable machine, but that one model was a bitch. A friend's different Kawi had a much better ride.

Whatever you do, avoid any model from Polaris.

Best regards,
Frank

 

[Alex F]

Frank,
As I’m researching the web, I see that Kawasaki gets great reviews while some people don’t favor Sea Doo as much. Kawi models seam to be on the lighter side, which is a big plus for me, but a wet ride is a new criteria I haven’t thought about due to lack of experience with these machines. Is this an issue for the in general or just some older models?

I'm finding that Kawasaki 1200STX, 12F, and 15F gets very good reviews. Any thoughts on this model?

BTW, I’m thinking about pre-owned 3-4 years. Are there any specific items (whatever usually breaks) I need to watch out for and inspect closer?

Thanks,
Alex.

 

[fc3]

Some of the older Sea Doos had problems. The four strokes seem to be reliable. A friends daughter has a 2001 (2002?) Sea Doo GTX with the 215 four stoke. She has about 200 hours on it without a problem.

I've not seem and problems with Kawasaki. My 750 only had minor problems, one of which was my fault since I didn't know that the head needed to be retorqued periodically. Slapped in a new head gasket and it was good to go. The other problem was the the fuel gauge failed. I found a used one on-line and dropped that in. Parts are easy to find. Some electrical stuff is expensive, but overall, not too bad.

A friend had the 1100, which was pretty nice. He sold it to another friend whose kids (three boys) kept drowning it. Eventually, he had to do some major repairs to it, but overall it was a good machine.

I believe that the 1200 is a two stroke and the others are four strokes. The four stroke engines are usually a bit heavier. But the two strokes smoke and stink, so there is an advantage to having the four stroke. Watch out for some two strokes. Some burn very expensive synthetic oil. Two strokes burn a lot of oil. Two strokes that don't have EFI also burn a heck of a lot of gas. I think my 80 HP kawi burned as much as my 255 HP Sea Doo. Maybe more come to think of it. The Kawi could barely make Tices and back on one tank where the Sea Doo does it easily and a heck of a lot faster with plenty of fuel to spare. Both fuel tanks are about the same size.

One thing I have noticed. Only Sea Doo mounts anticorrosion anodes (zincs) on and around the jet pump. I've never seen another PWC with that. Also, I believe that only Sea Doo's four strokes have closed cooling and the closed cooling system does not have an internal heat exchanger. The heat exchanger is on the bottom of the boat. The other brands run raw water though the engine.

My Polaris had closed cooling with a heat exchanger. The problem with the internal heat exchanger is if the water intake clogs, the engine overheats. With the heat exchanger external to the hull, there is nothing to clog. Raw water is used to cool the exhaust system but an overheat there usually does not cause damage if you shutdown and clear the clog right away.

Best regards,
Frank

 

[Chris R]

Just bought a SeaDoo GTX. (155 HP, 215 was a bit over kill). We're having a tow bar installed for pulling water toys. So far, it's great. We like many of the smaller features over some of the other brands. It also has a closed loop cooling system (like your boat) that helps in the salt water environment. Not sure if this is accurate, but I thought I heard this is the only brand that does. One of the big factors was the sale they were having a few weeks ago. 0/0/0 for 9 months plus a 1000.00 gas card. The gas card was what got our attention. Plus the dealer knocked about 1100.00 off the sticker price to boot. Overall, we really dig it.

One of the problems we keep trying to figure out (we tow/ride it to where we are going like you will), is a really good way to secure it to the boat. The thing is so short and ou cleats are too far apart to secure our fenders in an easy way. The last time we went out we just let it drift on a 25 foot mooring line. Still not the best solution....

 

[Starvin48]

I am a newb to this forum, but I have been racing PWC since 1999 and riding since 1986. Regarding a towing sit down that will work well, look at the SeaDoo GTX. I'm not a huge fan of SD, but that is a very good all-around boat that meets all the qualifications for a reasonable price.

Now, if you could live without reverse, the Kawasaki 1200 STX-R is one of the best sit downs I have ever used. Extremely reliable, great powerband, and still a 2-stroke (lighter).

If it were me, it would be the 1200 STX-R all the way.

I hope that helps!

 

[ATC]

Alex,

We have a '07 Yamaha FX Cruiser (3 seater) HO, and a VX Cruiser (also 3 seater but less glamorous/expensive).
Both are excellent machines. In my opinion, the FX Cruiser HO is kind of the Cadillac of PWCs in terms of comfort, dry ride, power, and reliability. I have heard of no real complaints with them. It does 60 mph, and has plenty of power for 3 riders, and/or pulling a skier or tube. It also takes regular gas, and seems somewhat decent on fuel (WFO will suck the gas down pretty quick).
We had looked at some of the newer/faster models, but I can't see paying a couple thousand more for 5 mph or so.

Just my view.

-Al

 

[Blueone]

We bought a 2008 Seadoo GTI 130hp this year for the kids to play around on. They Wakeboard, Kneeboard and pull a 3 person tube without any issues. We looked for used but the price differance was not that great so we went new. We paid $7,800 for the ski and I think $450.00 for the trailer.
We looked at Yamaha and drove both before we bought, I didn't like the ride of the Yamaha ...nose was too low and you couldn't spin a 360 ontop of the water. The Seadoo just seemed more stable and predictable.

 

[Starvin48]

Also, you should install some type of additional drainage system if you are going to tow it behind your boat. It WILL take on water and sink if you let it. The duckbill system is not electronic and works great. There are also other ideas that work well like the Versiplug systems at www.pwcdoctor.com that don't wear out like a duckbill.

 

[SeaRide]

Alex,

I own a '96 Sea Doo GSX (two seater, 110 HP, requires synthetic oil) and a 2004 normally aspirated 155 HP GTX with the four stroke engine. The GTX is incredibly smooth and quiet as compared to the old two stroke. The hull of the three seater also provides a very dry and smooth ride when compared to the previous versions of the GTX. The four stroke engine has closed cooling and the ride plate is used as the heat exchanger, which may be a bigger plus for saltwater use. In any event, you won't have to worry about clogging up the exchanger as Frank pointed out. I have not had any mechanical issues with either machine. Just routine maintenance. Keep in mind that I generally run my Sea Doos in the 5,000-5,500 rpm range rather than going at wide open throttle all the time. I also run in freshwater for the most part. The GSX does require synthetic oil. However, its oil conusumption is rather miserly.

I have no problem recommending the Four Stroke powered GTX. One of my boating neighbors has a Yamaha three seater (VX Deluxe??) with 110 HP and he has yet to have a problem with it over the last two years and he pretty much treats his equipment like an on/off switch. When he's going, it's either wide open or idle speed. So this appears to be a good machine as well.

Good luck.

 

[LifeisGood]

Have you considered going with a jet boat? We have been toying with the idea of jet boat versus jet ski for about a year now. I am leaning towards the boat because of the diverstiy offered: acts as dinghy, dry ride, stay out past dusk, capability of pulling tubers and skiers, etc.

Just a thought.:huh:

We are leaning towards the Sea Doo 150 Sportster.

 

[Alex F]

One of the problems we keep trying to figure out (we tow/ride it to where we are going like you will), is a really good way to secure it to the boat. The thing is so short and ou cleats are too far apart to secure our fenders in an easy way. The last time we went out we just let it drift on a 25 foot mooring line. Still not the best solution....

Chris,
Have you tried http://www.towdster.com/ ? Frank said it works fine for any speed and he made few good distance trips. This is the product I intend to use when I get the PWC.

Alex.

 

[Alex F]

Have you considered going with a jet boat? We have been toying with the idea of jet boat versus jet ski for about a year now. I am leaning towards the boat because of the diverstiy offered: acts as dinghy, dry ride, stay out past dusk, capability of pulling tubers and skiers, etc.

Just a thought.:huh:

We are leaning towards the Sea Doo 150 Sportster.

This exactly how we started thinking about it and descussed in this thread http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6177

Jet boat is an interesting idea, but I think the biggest issue is the weight. None of the PWCs (Zodiac Projet, jetski or jet boat) will be able to sit on my swim platform, so towing is the only option. When you tow a small craft like jetski at 25PMH it's one thing, but when you tow a jetboat or projet it's something very different IMO.

I guess, one of the biggest attractions for jetski type is that it's like a bike and it's more fun. My daughter also tells me that small and fast boat is ok, but it's not as much fun. My idea for this is purelly to add fun to our boating life style. To learn this from the "others side", my kids periodically go to grand parents summer house, so my daughter says that if we would get jetski she would be happy to skip trip to the summerhouse. IMO, small comments like that might mean a lot. This kind of brings my thoughts back to the tread http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11459 about kids being involved in boating.

 

[Alex F]

Based on what I'm learning, 4 stroke sould like the best choice. I don't like dealing with mixed fuel, but I found one interesting model (there could be others, but this is the first time I hear about the option)

Yahama Wave Runner GP1300R 2005 It uses 2 stroke oil and has seperate tanks for oil and gas because it uses oil injection so there is no mixing.

Does this feature make this PWC stand out from others or having separate tanks is not a big selling point?

Thx,
Alex.

 

[SeaRide]

Not really Alex. All of the second generation PWCs since the early mid 90s are oil injected (seperate oil and gas tanks).

FYI, my first Sea Doo, a '93 XP, was oil injected.

 

[douglee25]

Based on what I'm learning, 4 stroke sould like the best choice. I don't like dealing with mixed fuel, but I found one interesting model (there could be others, but this is the first time I hear about the option)

Yahama Wave Runner GP1300R 2005 It uses 2 stroke oil and has seperate tanks for oil and gas because it uses oil injection so there is no mixing.

Does this feature make this PWC stand out from others or having separate tanks is not a big selling point?

Thx,
Alex.

Not really a selling point per say. Two stroke have been running separate oil reservoirs for years. A lot of people rip the oil injection systems off and go to premix because there exists a greater possibility that the engine can seize due to oil pumps or oil lines failing. I'm not saying that will happen, but there exists that possibility.

Look into Seadoo's repair history. I believe they have improved over the years, but again, double check. I would certainly recommend either yamaha or kawasaki. Personally I'd purchase whichever one had the closest repair shop to your slip or home. I don't care how reliable PWC's are, but they will break. It's very common to suck trash or rocks into the pump.

You may be better off searching through posts at www.greenhulk.net or www.pwctoday.com

Hope this helps.

Doug

 

[Alex F]

Doug,

Nice and active forum. Thanks for the link.

Alex.

 

[comsnark]

If I was buying today, I would think twice about getting a two stroke jet ski.

The two strokes are "smokier" and "noisier". But at the same time, they should be "cheaper" (because of they are smokier and noisier) and are generally "lighter". (four stroke engines tend to be heavier -> It will take a bigger engine to give you the same performance. At the same time. . .the 4 stroke engines are *much* more poweful these days, such that they actually are faster)

BTW: Even my 1993 Kawi has seperate oil/fuel tanks, such that mixing is not necessary. I too have heard the advice regarding ripping out the oil tank and premixing. Besides eliminating a mode of failure, you can also cut your oil consumption as the "automatic" mixing systems can overfeed oil. . . .or so I have heard.

 

[douglee25]

If I was buying today, I would think twice about getting a two stroke jet ski.

The two strokes are "smokier" and "noisier". But at the same time, they should be "cheaper" (because of they are smokier and noisier) and are generally "lighter". (four stroke engines tend to be heavier -> It will take a bigger engine to give you the same performance. At the same time. . .the 4 stroke engines are *much* more poweful these days, such that they actually are faster)

BTW: Even my 1993 Kawi has seperate oil/fuel tanks, such that mixing is not necessary. I too have heard the advice regarding ripping out the oil tank and premixing. Besides eliminating a mode of failure, you can also cut your oil consumption as the "automatic" mixing systems can overfeed oil. . . .or so I have heard.

All true....

Doug

 

[Chris R]

Chris,
Have you tried http://www.towdster.com/ ? Frank said it works fine for any speed and he made few good distance trips. This is the product I intend to use when I get the PWC.

Alex.

I have looked at that site (from some previous posts) and have saved the link. We will probably hold off on it until next year since PWC season is winding down. I really like some of the bennies it offers and will probably go that way eventually. Of course, maybe I'm just holding out for a bigger boat with a hydraulic platform