Need help with rudder access

Njlarry

Njlarry

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2021
649
Rock Hall, MD. Chesapeake bay
Boat Info
2000 400 DB
AT LAST
Engines
Cat 3126
Ten minutes away from a tricky Kent Norrows channel and double bridge passage I realize helm is not normal. Worse advance trust on starboard results in opposite and boat lurches towards the starboard almost hitting fixed marker but the bow thruster and reverse save us. Realize no way to navigate through bridge and channels so called Tow Boat US. They arrived promply and were great towing us three hours home after an awsome challenge of towing a 20000 lb boat with a strong following current through a very narrow lift bridge and holiday traffic.
I can see three bolts on the bildge floor but cannot see the rudder stocks as they are behind the generator. This is a 2000 400 sedan bridge. Is there any access if batteries are removed or must the whole generator be removed?
Many thanks for any help.
 
Looked at Sea Ray set up and not feeling well.
I can just see the starboard rudder post support. The appears to be a bronze closed fork disconnected and stainless thread rod on the floor. The steeting gear is behind the water tank that is behind the generator in the center. On the starboard side the trim tab hydrolics and gen racor are mounted on some sort of enclosed plywood box. The same on the port side where the battery chargers are located. Thinking only access might be cutting tru transom trunk floor. Even bleeding the steering system requires access to the rams but everything appears to be permantly boxed in.
Has anyone ever had work done on the steering system?
 
I’ve repacked both my rudders on my 400DB with boat in water. Some where on the 40 Sedan Bridge thread I posted the how to. For starboard I removed generator exhaust hose and generator battery for access. For port I remove engine batteries. In both cases I had to do the work with one arm. Couldn’t get a position to get both arms and hands in there.
 
I can see how that works for the packing glands. The rudder shaft connections are higher and over a metal bar. I am thinking maybe cutting out the floor of the transom locker would maybe give access?
 
Larry, as someone who just went through a fix-it-myself fiasco and turned it to the pros; may i suggest before you start taking a chainsaw to your boat you consult with a reputable mechanic/dealer. Often, they seen it before and know the tricks. You sound like in my area. Where was boat towed to?
 
Haven Harbour in Rock Hall. Gota go sharpen my chain saw.
Have not been able to locate anyone knowledgeble on the 400 hence hoping someone here would know. Will try calling Sea Ray tomorrow. Removing the generator then the water tank would be very costly and time consuming. Cant believe that is the only way to service vital steering gear.
 
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Dont know who but might have been a Marine Max dealer?
Will call Sea Ray tomorrow. A boat that cannot have its steering gear maintained or even inspected is a ticking time boom. Ten minutes later we would in holiday traffic crowding thru a norrow bridge with strong current.
Really hoping the transom trunk floor is the answer.
 
Clarks Landing main yard is in Shady Side and they are a Sea Ray dealer. They do have a satellite location in Stevensville: https://www.clarkslanding.com/map-hours-directions-boats-dealership--hours-stevensville.
Good luck getting help. With the explosion in sales, all service providers (if they are any good) are super busy with long waiting lists. Unless you figure out how to do it yourself, I suspect you are looking at an over-the-winter fix.
I would write to Sea Ray using their web support tool (https://www.searay.com/us/en/contact-support.html) rather than call. I would explain the problem then ask for advice and for any drawings that might be applicable. You might get lucky and get a drawing that shows how to get at the problem. Boat builders do some times anticipate issues that may arise from the trade-offs they make in design and come up with procedures to provide access to what seem to be impossible to get at locations.
 
Thank you for all the info. It appears as though Sea Rat (in my book) offers no long term customer support even for safety issues. Google all that Cessna did for customers with fifty year seat glides. I used their contact us info email as they list no phone numbers or addresses on their website just sunny pics of people on their products. I just received an email from not Sea Ray but Marine Max. Patrick Lhota ,Sales Consultant, not tech support advised "You will need to reach out to one of your service facilities."
I am looking for tech support on a safety issue and I get a sales pitch.
I will drill a small hole and look inside this week. In the mean time if you have a 400 be aware your steering may not have been checked or maintained in a very long time. The Teleflex system installed by Sea Rat specifies that it must be inspected at least twice a year. The design prevents that.
 
Njlarry said:
Thank you for all the info. It appears as though Sea Rat (in my book) offers no long term customer support even for safety issues. Google all that Cessna did for customers with fifty year seat glides. I used their contact us info email as they list no phone numbers or addresses on their website just sunny pics of people on their products. I just received an email from not Sea Ray but Marine Max. Patrick Lhota ,Sales Consultant, not tech support advised "You will need to reach out to one of your service facilities."
I am looking for tech support on a safety issue and I get a sales pitch.
I will drill a small hole and look inside this week. In the mean time if you have a 400 be aware your steering may not have been checked or maintained in a very long time. The Teleflex system installed by Sea Rat specifies that it must be inspected at least twice a year. The design prevents that.
Click to expand...
Depending on what you asked, still may hear from Sea Ray tech support. I asked for a drawing just a couple of months ago and got back the following in this order:
- an email from SR Tech Support with the exact drawing I needed attached.
- another email from SR Tech Support telling me to look in the Parts Manual for my model.
- a phone call from "my" tech at the dealer associated with my account asking if he could help.
So, you are certainly correct that support is spotty at best but not quite non-existent. Another resource the dealers seem to have is on-line drillable drawings. Not making excuses for Sea Ray but the boats we have are pretty old and they don't make "yachts" any more. The secret I have found is to develop as many sources as possible, including this forum's expertise to do the best we can.
 
I did hear back from Sea Ray! (They are now back in my good graces) They are not ignoring owners of their older boats I am glad to report! They sent me the drawlings which are a big help to be sure. It is not clear from the drawlings but it does look like the tie bar which came disconnected may be reachable if the floor of the transom locker is removed. The hydraulic ram that must be accessed to bleed the steering system looks to be part behind the gen water muffler and part under the water tank so not sure how that can be maintained.
My plan is to drill a small hole first, stick my cheap Lizard Cam in and if all looks good remove the floor of the transom locker and hope I can reach the steering tie bar to reinstall it. It also will give some access to inspect the steering linkage I hope.
Can't wait to see. Will get back how it works out. Can't imagine I am the only one to ever have a steering access issue as it is certainly not maintenance free. Also amazed they boxed in a critical system that the manufacture specs be inspected every 6 months.
 
Follow up in case it helps someone in the future.
Bled steering today, took all day, and is working again. Worse job I ever did and I diy everything.
Got one arm access to ram bleed fittings by removing the gen exhaust hose at the muffler and push down, slide revo oil pump aside. Would have been great to remove starboard engine exhaust but that was not going to part.
Still cannot get eyeballs on total steering system.
Need to find way to inspect and maintain.
Theory one, remove floor of transom locker. Drilled hole today but two layers of foam later not sure this will do it.
Theory two, keep gen inplace but remove all the stuff crammed on either side, empty and disonnect water tank, slide to either side to work on gear.
Theory three, get new smaller water tank so can get access.
 
Cheap inspection camera did not work well enough. Will try again. There must be some way of getting behind the water tank.
From the drawings there should be 6 to ten inches between transom and water tan.
 
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Did you ever figure out if you can cut an access panel in the transom locker floor ? I need to bleed my steering and was thinking of doing the same thing..
 
Not yet. I cut a two inch hole but there is a thick layer of foam sound proof material underneath so need to probe or cut out the whole area since it is wet core anyway. Also will need I think to cut an access hatch under the transom shower door as there is some wet core there where the transom rub rail is, which should be an easy fix once I can get an arm in. This may give a better view.
Great video on you tube on bleeding boat steering (it has the word "easy" in the title, sorry cant copy the link). Got limited access by removing gen battery, remove gen exhaust hose at muffler and push down out of the way, slide oil change pump aside. It worked but badly bruised body so had younger and thinner nephew put it back together. Lay on top of thin plywood or cardboard. (Worse job of my life) Used 35 feet of tubing to run bleed line from ram to bridge helm.
The 3/8" bleed tubing was just a little too loose on the ram bleed fittings so have two small hose clamps ready.
Good luck!
 
Njlarry said:
Not yet. I cut a two inch hole but there is a thick layer of foam sound proof material underneath so need to probe or cut out the whole area since it is wet core anyway. Also will need I think to cut an access hatch under the transom shower door as there is some wet core there where the transom rub rail is, which should be an easy fix once I can get an arm in. This may give a better view.
Great video on you tube on bleeding boat steering (it has the word "easy" in the title, sorry cant copy the link). Got limited access by removing gen battery, remove gen exhaust hose at muffler and push down out of the way, slide oil change pump aside. It worked but badly bruised body so had younger and thinner nephew put it back together. Lay on top of thin plywood or cardboard. (Worse job of my life) Used 35 feet of tubing to run bleed line from ram to bridge helm.
The 3/8" bleed tubing was just a little too loose on the ram bleed fittings so have two small hose clamps ready.
Good luck!
Click to expand...
Thx for the quick reply. I did look at a couple of you tube vids and plan on looking into it before we get launched again next Spring. Not as flexible as I once was but it needs to get done. Out of curiosity where on the Chesapeake are you ? We are also on the Bay up at the Northern end on the Sassafras River.
 
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