New 370 Sundancer Outboard - Coming Soon

[mobocracy]

Fair points. Just look at Mercruiser's continued use of mild steel for the steering pin on Bravo 3 drives. That mild still will always corrode, chew up the seal, and cause a leak that eventually rots the transom ring. Simply switching that one part to stainless steel would reduce a big source of damage.

TBH though, Mercruiser basically failed on the pods so it might not be the best comparison. They teamed up with Cummins to co-engineer Zeus and the partnership fell apart. It may not be corrosion-related, but Zeus owners other problems like seals that get blow out and cause leaks.

I think Mercruiser's inability to do a pod drive is probably a function of Sea Ray/Brunswick's failure to move into the large yacht market successfully. I think they were counting on the same vertical integration "advantages" that they had with Mercruiser -- own the company that makes the drive, don't bother being super competitive since it'll be the only power choice.

I don't know how their deal with Cummins fell apart, but it wouldn't surprise me if Cummins wanted more input or demanded more ongoing engineering investment in the solution and Brunswick was generally only interested in good enough.

But really, my larger take is that pod drives are basically stern drives rotated to the hull from the stern. OK, they're not, but in some conceptual way they are -- more than just a drive shaft and prop at least. If they can be made robust enough for long-term wet slipped salt water boats, I see no reason why the same anti-corrosion concepts can't be applied to stern drives.

 

[copb8tx]

Formula Boats offer buyers the the choice of Mercruiser, Volvo Penta or Ilmor for their IO's. They do a big business in IO's that live in saltwater. From what I've learned Ilmor is the only supplier who uses freshwater/antifreeze for the cooling of their exhaust manifolds, risers and elbows. They offer a 7 year corrosion protection policy for the entire drivetrain, including the outdrive itself. That's impressive.

The concern there though is they're a very small player in the market with a small dealer network and I'd be concerned with the resale value of the boat with those engines. A broker who frequents the Formula boards says that they're a tough used boat sell and that buyers always just recognize Mercruiser and assume they're superior. He says the same, but to a lesser degree about Volvo Pentas. I actually have a runabout with the VP and like it a lot.

I'm ALWAYS a used boat buyer. I've only ever bought one brand new boat. I typically look for something 3-5 years old in pristine condition and well maintained even if it demands a premium. I'm sure I'll be doing the same with this decision. With that, the used market for the newer outboard powered boats is small and comes at a big premium so I'm having to very seriously consider the IO option and just suck up the fact I'll be spending $3000-$5000 every 5 years for consumable replacements but I get the advantage of speed, efficiency and accessibility.

 

[Pirate Lady]

I noticed in the Brunswick latest quarterly SEC filing that outboard revenue was $410M versus $39M for stern drive engines. The approx 10x ratio was the same for the same period in 2019 as well.

Based on this, I think we see why there’s little innovation to be expected in the stern drive engine segment delivered by Mercury.

This past summer, wife and I sitting at local tiki bar Noticed a huge change. In 80s 90s searay was all cruisers/aft cabin boats, same with bay liner, regal, Larson, etc. now it’s 10% cruisers and 90% dayboats pull up. Center consoles, outboards, big bow riders. The market that got a lot of us into boats that being 24 - 30 cruisers is gone, want one, get used.

 

[Pirate Lady]

Anyone else noticed the trend toward wraps. Builders ain’t using gel coat color anymore. It’s all plastic wrap. Seen a new Formula at my marina this week. Freakin vinyl wrap on hull.

 

[bobeast]

My guess is this will be 34' on deck with a 36.x LOA. That seems to be the way model numbers track these days.

 

[Pirate Lady]

Formula Boats offer buyers the the choice of Mercruiser, Volvo Penta or Ilmor for their IO's. They do a big business in IO's that live in saltwater. From what I've learned Ilmor is the only supplier who uses freshwater/antifreeze for the cooling of their exhaust manifolds, risers and elbows. They offer a 7 year corrosion protection policy for the entire drivetrain, including the outdrive itself. That's impressive.

The concern there though is they're a very small player in the market with a small dealer network and I'd be concerned with the resale value of the boat with those engines. A broker who frequents the Formula boards says that they're a tough used boat sell and that buyers always just recognize Mercruiser and assume they're superior. He says the same, but to a lesser degree about Volvo Pentas. I actually have a runabout with the VP and like it a lot.

I'm ALWAYS a used boat buyer. I've only ever bought one brand new boat. I typically look for something 3-5 years old in pristine condition and well maintained even if it demands a premium. I'm sure I'll be doing the same with this decision. With that, the used market for the newer outboard powered boats is small and comes at a big premium so I'm having to very seriously consider the IO option and just suck up the fact I'll be spending $3000-$5000 every 5 years for consumable replacements but I get the advantage of speed, efficiency and accessibility.

Hey Cop, I just got a 91 this year with 460 hours. I am replacing manifolds risers cause mechanic said to, don’t know if first time, 2nd, 3rd, don’t care, only know I good 5 6 years now. I am having the Bravo going over, fix everything wrong. Total be <3k. No way you spend that a year.

 

[b_arrington]

Anyone else noticed the trend toward wraps. Builders ain’t using gel coat color anymore. It’s all plastic wrap. Seen a new Formula at my marina this week. Freakin vinyl wrap on hull.

Really?? Formula paints all their hulls. Even when it’s white.

I have seen more of this. It’s a cheap way to change the color or refresh old gel coat than a paint job. Not as durable though.

 

[Pirate Lady]

Oops sorry. You didn’t say every year, misread. Sorry. We

 

[Pirate Lady]

Really?? Formula paints all their hulls. Even when it’s white.

I have seen more of this. It’s a cheap way to change the color or refresh old gel coat than a paint job. Not as durable though.

Swear to god. Boat on land. Felt the side. Looked at at wife, said this vinyl. Felt the ridge

 

[Pirate Lady]

It is a beautiful boat. If you go down Norman Creek past gas dock, guy has it on left side on a lift in front of a bazillion $ house. Ya I jealous. But it’s a wrap. You can feel with fingernail.

 

[Pirate Lady]

These wraps are amazing told wife I wanna do one like flying tigers P 40. That not gonna happen.

 

[b_arrington]

It is a beautiful boat. If you go down Norman Creek past gas dock, guy has it on left side on a lift in front of a bazillion $ house. Ya I jealous. But it’s a wrap. You can feel with fingernail.

Well, maybe it works for him? I know someone that wrapped the transom of their blue Sabre, and had it lettered with the boat name. The transom faces the sun in the slip and the gelcoat was taking beating vs. the rest of the boat. They used the wrap to get a few more seasons before painting it. Looked not bad from the photos.

 

[copb8tx]

This past summer, wife and I sitting at local tiki bar Noticed a huge change. In 80s 90s searay was all cruisers/aft cabin boats, same with bay liner, regal, Larson, etc. now it’s 10% cruisers and 90% dayboats pull up. Center consoles, outboards, big bow riders. The market that got a lot of us into boats that being 24 - 30 cruisers is gone, want one, get used.

Up until this moment I always thought you were the 'Pirate Lady' and were female. Now I'm guessing it's just your boat name. DOH!

I should've known better since the name of my boat is 'The Other Woman'.

 

[copb8tx]

Hey Cop, I just got a 91 this year with 460 hours. I am replacing manifolds risers cause mechanic said to, don’t know if first time, 2nd, 3rd, don’t care, only know I good 5 6 years now. I am having the Bravo going over, fix everything wrong. Total be <3k. No way you spend that a year.

The boats I'm looking at all have twins so it seems to track to exactly what I was budgeting. Thanks for the input.

 

[copb8tx]

Just spent over an hour with 2 Formula reps in St Petes and they told me All Formula boats are painted with Imron paint for the color on their hull sides. Its a Formula 'thing' and very prevalent in all their marketing materials. The hull is gelcoat and then painted one color at a time. You can feel the paint lines with a fingernail but it was definitely paint, not tape. If the new Formula you saw had a wrap it was something the owner did.

 

[dvx216]

I'm not going to lie Sea Ray new bigger boat line up isn't anything I'm interested in and to be honest can't afford anyway. Sea Ray in my opinion might as well told the average Great Lakes boater who actually spends a couple days on the lake and not just bar hopping or flying around for a coupe of hours that we don't matter. Sea Rays new fleet I'm sure are great boats unfortunately they fall short when it comes to what they offered eleven years ago. The question I have is the 320 coupe that has OB doesn't end up using the space where the motor were with no Galley or shower with a Vee birth table combination. Heck even my little 230 Wk. had a stove and a sink. I don't see a different boat then 2000 310 Da in my future but thank goodness Sea Ray built plenty of 90's and 2000 boats if I would move up. Only time will tell what will happen with their decision to down size there larger line to day boats and cater to the Florida boat scene.

 

[Pirate Lady]

Up until this moment I always thought you were the 'Pirate Lady' and were female. Now I'm guessing it's just your boat name. DOH!


I should've known better since the name of my boat is 'The Other Woman'.

That funny, ya boat name, named for Anne Bonny in Black Sails. And real life. She was a total badass.

 

[Pirate Lady]

Just spent over an hour with 2 Formula reps in St Petes and they told me All Formula boats are painted with Imron paint for the color on their hull sides. Its a Formula 'thing' and very prevalent in all their marketing materials. The hull is gelcoat and then painted one color at a time. You can feel the paint lines with a fingernail but it was definitely paint, not tape. If the new Formula you saw had a wrap it was something the owner did.

I stand corrected, felt the ridge, assumed it was wrap.

 

[Pirate Lady]

That funny, ya boat name, named for Anne Bonny in Black Sails. And real life. She was a total badass.

All my boats have been some version of ‘Lady’. Last was Sassy Lady, had Chesapeake Lady, etc. Ya I’m rambling.

 

[Pirate Lady]

I'm not going to lie Sea Ray new bigger boat line up isn't anything I'm interested in and to be honest can't afford anyway. Sea Ray in my opinion might as well told the average Great Lakes boater who actually spends a couple days on the lake and not just bar hopping or flying around for a coupe of hours that we don't matter. Sea Rays new fleet I'm sure are great boats unfortunately they fall short when it comes to what they offered eleven years ago. The question I have is the 320 coupe that has OB doesn't end up using the space where the motor were with no Galley or shower with a Vee birth table combination. Heck even my little 230 Wk. had a stove and a sink. I don't see a different boat then 2000 310 Da in my future but thank goodness Sea Ray built plenty of 90's and 2000 boats if I would move up. Only time will tell what will happen with their decision to down size there larger line to all day boats and cater to the Florida boat scene.

I could not have said it better. I ain’t an old fogey, but in 87 I bought a new 268 Sundancer loaded, AC, 36k, inflation adjusted that is 82k today. Their smallest bow rider is twice that. That’s why I bought a 91 this year. They can all go bankrupt for all I care. Enough used on market to supply me for a lifetime.