Outdrive going down slowly - Newbie needs help.

C

Chris_SRQ

New Member
Oct 22, 2015
8
Florida
Boat Info
175 Sport (2008)
Engines
Mercruiser 3.0, 135 hp
Good evening,

my name is Chris and I own a 2008 SR 175 Sport with a 3.0 Mercruiser inboard/outboard drive (135hp). The boat is on a lift in lovely Sarasota (FL) and I enjoy taking it out into the canals and the bay (brackish/saltwater). I recently found a bit of a problem and hope, that maybe someone here has the expertise to tell me how to proceed.

The outdrive goes up smoothly and without issue, but going back down is the problem. Just using the battery, in idle, or at less than 1500 rpm, I hear the pump working but the drive will not visibly move down. When I have the engine at at >1500 rpm, the down-button will move the outdrive into its correct - although it takes quite a bit longer than coming up. I checked the fluid level under the pump, which is about 1/2 inch below the filler cap. So that should be fine. The fluid is "oily", not "milky".

I am ready to pull off the rams and replace them but I am wondering (since the way up works flawlessly under any circumstances) if it is maybe the pump, a valve or air in the system. And why would opening up the throttle and increasing the rpm's make the problem go away?

Also, once I have the rams off, how do I best determine if they are to blame? (I am not afraid to get my hands dirty nor am I untalented when it comes to mechanical work, but marine engines are pretty new to me.)

Any help would be highly appreciated.

All the best from the Tampa Bay

Chris

PS: I tried the search function, but I couldn't really find this problem (although many trim/tilt issues are described).
 
Last edited:
Hi Chris, I doubt its a ram or cylinder problem, could be, but more likely a valve in the pump/control unit. Not easy to troubleshoot -- might try to find a complete known good unit and swap it out just to check. I'm pulling two in the next few weeks. If you can't find one to use locally we might be able to work something out.
 
Take a look at the trim pump wiring. Try jumping 12V+ to the motor side of the down solenoid and see if that makes the drive move normal. Then, try switching the down solenoid with the up to see if the problem follows the solenoid. Aside from the that, remove all wires that you see (including grounds), clean the contact area and connector, inspect wires for corrosion that has started to wick it's way up underneath the sheathing, then replace and tighten connectors. If it turns out to be the solenoid, replace both up and down while you're there. If none of this helps, then you're back to the valve body of the pump or the cylinders. You can remove the cylinder (and lines) and hand cycle it to see how it moves (refill with fluid before reassembly to make bleeding the system a little faster).
 
Last edited:
Good morning - and thank you both very much for your advice. OK, you guys are the experts, so I will start at the electric, then move to the ram cylinders and finally to the pump. I will let you know how it works out and - if I may - will then take you up on the pump-swap. Thinking about the fact that I get the outdrive to go down at higher rpm's, it probably isn't the ram's and it sounds more like something electric.

Thank you again - I will post an update!

Chris
 
Chris, I'm no expert ... but ... over the years I've learned that it is usually the - not so obvious, but - simple things that fail. The brakes just quit on my truck, of all things -- a rusted thru brake line on a 5 year old vehicle - in the South (no salt) turns out ... its a major problem on all GM trucks built after 1999 - who knew?

Order of operations for trouble shooting on a boat - electrical connections, hydraulic fluids, water in the fuel, mechanical corrosion,, wood rot -- and Murphy's Law always applies!
 
OK - here is my update. I did the following:

1. bypassed up solenoid, pump working, outdrive moves up.

2. bypassed down solenoid, pump working with a different sound, outdrive not moving.

3. removed up-hydrolics line coupling at pump adapter, pushed up-button, fluid comes gushing out.

4. removed down-hydrolics line coupling at pump adapter, pushed down-button, fluid comes gushing out.

5. Put everything back together and asked my buddy to press up & down while I watched the outdrive. Here is what I saw: In up motion both ram cylinders extend. Pressing down, only one cylinder (port side) tries to move, the starboard one sits without moving. The port side ram cylinder retracts by about 1/4 inch which, due to the other one not moving, creates a slight port-side movement of the entire outdrive. When we let the down-button go, the port ram cylinder re-extends the 1/4 inch again and the outdrive is straight. The other starboard ram cylinder does nothing.

===> So am I back to the ram cylinders, assuming that the starboard side one is stuck and refuses to retract properly? And if so, do I first remove the hydrolics coupling at the cylinder to see if fluid comes gushing out there as well if I press the down-button or do I go straight to replacing the cylinder? Also, is it advised to replace both ram cylinders?

Thank You!

Chris
 
Last edited:
You can certainly try removing the line - it's worth a shot to see if somehow some dirt got in there and clogged things up. But I'd be surprised if that's the case. Once you get the lines off, you can also check the cylinder by manually cycling it - it "should" move in and out with not too much effort. There are rebuild kits out there, but I haven't done one in some time as it's so rare that these crap out - but I don't recall it being all that hard. I guess it'll just come down exactly what piece is broken or corroded. The longest process is bleeding the system.

Edit: Oh, and there is no reason to bother replacing the other side unless you suspect a possible issue. It sounds like you don't. If the current issue is NOT from a hit/strike then I wouldn't worry about it.
 
Last edited:
Well - another day and some progress made.

I removed both ram cylinders (parts 815954-1 and 815935-1) from the outdrive. I am not sure how easy they are supposed to move when the hydrolic lines are disconnected, but both of them are pretty much stuck. I weigh about 200 pounds at 6'2" and even with one side in a vice, I can hardly turn the piston. Moving it out is impossible. Is that normal or is that a sign of malfunction?

Also, does anybody have a source where I can buy these rams (OEM or aftermarket) without paying an arm and a leg?

;)

Thank you, you are a great help.

Chris
 
Gentlemen,

now I need help one last time, please:

I purchased aftermarket trim rams and installed them. The installation video is 5 minutes ... well, it took me three hours. But I have everything back in place, the hydraulic lines don't leak and the outdrive moves up and down and all the way up into the trailer position. So far so good.

Here are my questions:

1) How far is the outdrive supposed to go up before the limiter sets in (not in the trailer position, during normal operations)? Mine moves up quickly until the ram cylinders are about 1/3 extended. I did not note how far it raised up before, but does that sound about right? My feeling tells me that it used to be more than that. Any views?

2) I replaced the trim fluid, in total about 1.5 quarts. I moved the drive up and down a couple of times to bleed the system while adding fluid. Now the reservoir is full but after a full extension up and down, I have about an inch of foam on top of the reservoir fluid (with open cap). The foam disappears in minutes. Is that normal and is it related to leftover air in the system, i.e. will it vent itself out?

3) Is it normal that the pump continues to run (with a different sound) in the "all down" position, as well as in the trailer-position, while in the normal operations Up-position, the limited cuts the power to the pump?

Thank you,
Chris
 
Your trim sensors shouldn't have been touched to replace the rams so the travel should be the same as before. The trim pump should not be on when the rams are in the down position unless you still have the button pressed.
 
Assuming you have an Alpha 1 Gen II drive : The Trim Limit Switch should be adjusted as to allow the Trim Cylinder to expand to 21-3/4" (measured between hole-to-hole).
 
Thank you - and, no, I did not touch the trim sensors. Maybe the new cylinders just work their way up much faster than before.
Yes, it is an Alpha One, Gen 2 drive.

But please let me try to rephrase my question (sorry, English is not my primary language):

I have three possible switch positions on my throttle: "Trailer", "Up" and "Down".

1) Assuming that I start in the "down" position and press the button to move the drive to the "up" position, the pump works and the drive moves up until the maximum "up" is reached and the pump stops while I am still pressing the button. It's an automatic shut-off so to say. I assume, that this is the limiter in action.

2) If I now press the "Trailer"-button, the pump starts again and the drive moves up beyond the "up" position into the "trailer"-position. But here, the pump does not stop when the maximum is reached, I need to let go of the "Trailer"-button when I hear a slight bump and the sound of the pump changes noticeably.

3) If I now press the "Down"-button, the drive moves all the way down, but again, when the maximum "down" point is reached, I hear a slight bump and the pump continues with a different sound while I press the button. That's the moment when I let go of the button.

I guess my confusion is that #1 would explain the up-limiter but I fail to see the impact of the down-limiter anywhere.

Any chance you could make me smarter here.... ?

Thanks,
Chris
 
That's exactly how it is supposed to work. There is no electric down limiter.
 
There is no "down" limiter. The only limiter is at the approximate 1/3 up - to keep the drive in it's "safe" range while the engine is running. What you are experiencing is normal. At FULL up or FULL down, the motor will continue to run until you let go of the button.

The foaming is normal - it will take quite a while (many, many "up and downs") for all the air to bleed out. Just keep doing it - when the foam dissipates, add fluid as needed and run it up and down some more. You might notice that the drive feels "soft" right now - meaning if you put your weight on it while it's in an up position, you'll actually be able to move the drive a bit. You need to get it to the point that it is rock hard and no foaming.
 
Gentlemen,

thank you very much for your responses, I am relieved (and just a bit proud) that apparently I did manage to fix it without causing further damage.

A couple of observations for anybody who wants to do this themselves - based on what I learned:

1) Doing this by yourself is a pain. You are always a hand short and these outdrives are heavy. Get someone to help you. Also, doing this on a small platform in the water while your boat is on the lift is a really bad idea. It'll work in the end, but fallen parts are so much easier to find on solid ground, rather than in 3ft deep of water. I learned that the hard way.

2) While it may be possible to re-use the existing plastic bushings between the pins and the ram cylinder sleeves, I recommend to get a full set of 8 new bushings - at a cost of maybe $30. I tried to recycle the old bushings and spend far too much time trying to clean a $5 part. And when I was finally ready to reinstall them, they were so brittle that they cracked while I forced them over the pin. I tried to save money on the wrong end...

3) When refilling the system with new, empty cylinders, one bottle of trim fluid (1 quart) will not be enough. I ended up running back to the store to get a second one. Total usage was around 1.5 quarts.

4) I stopped by at SEI Sterndrives in Tampa today. They apparently build entire outdrives (upper & lower) and supply parts at a fraction of the cost of Mercruiser parts with 2-day shipping. Also they have instructional videos to show how parts are replaced. Have a look if you plan on doing something like I did.

Again, thank you all for your help!

Chris
 
What do I do with the old Mercruiser rams - are there people out there who rebuild them for resale?

I am just asking because I am about to throw $800 worth of (defect) parts in the trash for which there is a $50 rebuild-kit. But I don't have the tools for it.

Chris
 
Hi All,
This looks like an old thread, so maybe I can get directed to a newer one, but...

I have a 2011 Bravo III outdrive and I'm trying to change out the flex hoses on for the trim. Changing out the hoses themselves looks pretty straightforward, but I'm concerned about refilling the system.

Before I break into the system, I wanted to ask:
  1. Are there ports I need to open to bleed the air out of the lines? Similar to bleeding the brakes on a car... If so, where are these, and what is the procedure?
  2. What type/grade oil do I use?
 
Before I break into the system, I wanted to ask:
  1. Are there ports I need to open to bleed the air out of the lines? Similar to bleeding the brakes on a car... If so, where are these, and what is the procedure? I think.....The system is self bleeding. But I'll look at some manuals I have and edit as needed.
Page 5A-7
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oxAOrcmqm5GfK6GWy6bn9D32DI6ciQS9/view?usp=sharing
  1. What type/grade oil do I use? Power Trim and Steering Fluid.
 
Last edited:
Little Ducky said:
Before I break into the system, I wanted to ask:
  1. Are there ports I need to open to bleed the air out of the lines? Similar to bleeding the brakes on a car... If so, where are these, and what is the procedure? The system is self bleeding.
  2. What type/grade oil do I use? Power Trim and Steering Fluid.
Click to expand...
Heck yeah, but NO WAY. Nothing is ever that easy. Will it really just bleed itself after a few up/downs?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,238
Messages
1,429,059
Members
61,119
Latest member
KenBoat
Back
Top