Possible Water In Cylinders??

[dg0813]

I just had my flywheel and starter replaced for the second time by my mechanic. Original '91 502. The first time he replaced the flywheel and starter, I feel that it was due to the starter getting old, the mechanic said it looked like the original (only 575 hrs on engine) and it was dragging a bit, when the motor sat for over 4-5 days it seemed to drag, eventually eating up the flywheel all the way around. After he replaced the flywheel and starter it seemed to work fine for a couple of weeks, then it started making a noise when I went to start it just like the first time that sounded like static (the starter was not fully engaging I think). I notified the mechanic and he could not figure it out, he even went down and said that he tightened the second starter, but eventually the new starter ate up the new flywheel. The mechanic pulled the boat out and replaced the starter and flywheel. While he was doing this he said he decided to check compression on the cylinders and all checked out perfect except that 2 cylinders had some water in them (so he says). This engine has always run perfect, runs cool (fresh water cooling), gets excellent RPM's, and when warm fires up after only a 1/4 revolution. Mechanic checked the oil and no sign of water there, motor does not smoke, etc... The motor is not hard to turn over either, I can turn the motor by hand using a large socket wrench on the center pulley bolt. Any ideas as to what the water could be from, as I am not feeling comfortable with the mechanic's ideas.

 

[fc3]

when were the exhaust manifolds, elbows, and, if any risers last replaced?

 

[dg0813]

The risers on one side were replaced when the flywheel was replaced the first time. I have not asked yet if that was the side that the isue was on though.

 

[dg0813]

As far as the exhaust manifolds, and elbows, I am not sure. We have only had the boat for a year.

 

[sprink56]

Honestly.... I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. It will be one of those things that hangs in your mind for a while but don't give it room..it will beat you up.

Look at it this way, you have done your "due diligence" and everything works fine. What would you do...tear the engine apart because some guy said he found water:huh:

Let it go.:thumbsup:

If you are closed cooling renew your risers every 2 years and the manifolds at 500 hours. Watch the coolant level and enjoy the boat.

 

[dg0813]

Thanks for the reply, but the boat is an open cooling system. It is a 380 sunsport with stern drives and fresh water cooling.

 

[dg0813]

The mech. is trying to tell me that because of the water in the cylinders it is making the engine difficult to turn over and that is why it ate up another starter and flywheel.

 

[JediJD]

The mech. is trying to tell me that because of the water in the cylinders it is making the engine difficult to turn over and that is why it ate up another starter and flywheel.

Water doesn't compress at all. If you have a cylinder with enough water to fill the piston just before top dead center...everything stops dead. If there is just enough water to dampen the spark or contaminate the air fuel mixture in that cylinder, the cylinder won't fire and you will be starting on seven, but not tearing up flywheels.

Its been a while since I dealt with this stuff, but I recall that we used to shim starters so that the tooth gap was to certain tolerances. Not sure that's the case for you, but starter flywheel tooth clearances is where I would start before I worried about a wet cylinder tearing up flywheels.

 

[sprink56]

Thanks for the reply, but the boat is an open cooling system. It is a 380 sunsport with stern drives and fresh water cooling.

OK...watch the manifolds and risers like a Hawk. Does your boat stay in the water or on a lift/dry rack ?

 

[dg0813]

The boat sits in the water not on a lift. We bought it off of the Tennessee River (fresh water), and have moved it to Georgia (also fresh water).
What do I need to be watching for?
I would think that if there was water in 1-2 cylinders there would be some kind of sign in the performance of the engine??

 

[sprink56]

The boat sits in the water not on a lift. We bought it off of the Tennessee River (fresh water), and have moved it to Georgia (also fresh water).
What do I need to be watching for?
I would think that if there was water in 1-2 cylinders there would be some kind of sign in the performance of the engine??

See...we did not know where you were (no info in your sig) and since many of us are in salt water we just thought a boat that size might be located coastal.

Just watch for corrosion. Out of curiosity, what do you do in the winter? If you leave it in the water year round or the previous owner did that may be the reason for water in the cylinders...a cracked head or block:huh: The water in the river or lake might not freeze but any water left in the block or heads will.

 

[dg0813]

I had 2 heaters in the boat over the winter along with the heat being left on in the cabin.

 

[fc3]

This is nuts!

Water gets into the engine because either the heads or block are cracked, or the exhaust system is faulty. Exhaust systems don't last forever. Time to replace them if they're suspect. Finding water in the exhaust means that an inspection should be done. At a minimum that means compression testing and leak down testing. I'd probably consider a borescope inspection of the two suspect cylinders. Then, having some data, I'd decide the next step.

Heater are worth crap. The most likely time to lose power that runs the heaters is when the weather is at it's worst and you need the heaters the most.

Oh and by the way... water damage doesn't get better by itself. The sooner you do something the cheaper and quicker the fix. Fix it now, and it might just be the exhaust system. Later it might be the exhaust system and a head job. Later still and it'll be exhaust, heads, and rings. It is your money.

 

[BarryCF]

The most likely time to lose power that runs the heaters is when the weather is at it's worst and you need the heaters the most.

True. And I know it. I spent several nights on my boat at the dock when the weather was bad in fear we might lose power. And once we did. 12 degree low temp, which is unusual around here. Propane heat was my friend, that and prayer there was no gas leak. One winter only. I wanted to fish the winter and I paid the price.

 

[PlayDate]

What number cylinders did he say he found water in? That's a bit weird that he ran a compression test without talking to you first.

In regards to the starter flywheel issue....that is most likely an alignment issue. The original starter went out of alignment and the new one is ending up the same way. Find yourself a good mechanic and have him check for worn starter mounting bolts and the mounting surface for cracks.

-John

 

[dg0813]

#4 and 6 are the supposed problem cylinders. He was blaming the starter having issue trying to start the engine, and said through discovery he found water. He then did a compression test and I verified today that all was good. The riser on that side was replaced about 3 months ago when the first flywheel and starter were put on by him.

 

[PlayDate]

Hmmm.... I guess it comes down to whether or not he found water in the first place in cylinders 4 & 6. If he did, I would tear apart that side and look for rust in the manifold exhaust ports on those cylinders. It doesn't matter if it has a new riser if there is a something he overlooked on the exhaust manifold.

-John

 

[dg0813]

wouldn't there be signs of some sort if there really is water in the cylinders like running rough, hot, etc...? Would this make it hard to start? Could this have really caused the starter to have a hard time starting the engine ending up tearing up 2 flywheels? Or could this be the mechanic trying to eliminate himself from any further resposibility to replace a starter and or flywheel due to improper installation? Remember this motor runs a smooth a a sewing machine and when warm, or the longer it is run during a day the easier it starts????

 

[sprink56]

I have to say, with a raw water cooling system in cold country and you don't know the real history of the manifolds....change the manifolds and risers and it might not be too late.

My brother bought a boat from Kentucky 2: years ago that had marginal manifolds. He had no water in the oil and it ran fine. One day he was cruising accross the lake and noticed that the boat started running a little sluggish. When he got it home he pulled some plugs and turned it over...got water out of the plug holes. He put a new pair of ceramic coated manifolds and risers on. Half way through this season he lost the motor to a cracked piston.

Now he has a new long block (350 Chevy) and is about $1800 lighter because he did the work himself.

He looks back and says that he should have changed the manifolds and risers when he bought the boat. He would still have the first motor.

The starter, flywheel and water may or may not be related. If you don't have any history on those manifolds on a boat that's 20 years old...change them. You might not have to replace a motor.

 

[tobnpr]

This is nuts!

Water gets into the engine because either the heads or block are cracked, or the exhaust system is faulty. Exhaust systems don't last forever. Time to replace them if they're suspect. Finding water in the exhaust means that an inspection should be done. At a minimum that means compression testing and leak down testing. I'd probably consider a borescope inspection of the two suspect cylinders. Then, having some data, I'd decide the next step.

Heater are worth crap. The most likely time to lose power that runs the heaters is when the weather is at it's worst and you need the heaters the most.

Oh and by the way... water damage doesn't get better by itself. The sooner you do something the cheaper and quicker the fix. Fix it now, and it might just be the exhaust system. Later it might be the exhaust system and a head job. Later still and it'll be exhaust, heads, and rings. It is your money.

X2.

I had a riser let go on one boat (while at the dock, not running) filled the cylinder bank with water. After pulling the head I could see rusting of the valves in the affected cylinders indicating that the riser had been "misting" the intake for some time. New heads...

A compression check at time of survey on a different boat I was purchasing showed low compression on #4 and #6- exactly where a visual inspection of the riser/manifold showed exterior leakage- and confirmed it was also leaking inside. Turned that boat down.

Like Frank said, don't even run the boat until you've fixed the problem.