Purchasing a 2009 280 Sundancer - Paperwork Purgatory

[SeaGoat]

Hi All,

New to the forum, and I'm in the process of purchasing a 2009 280 Sundancer and the bank is asking for the dimensions on the boat. Now that's fine and I have the beam, length and draft. However they are also asking for the depth (???), which is defined as the height from the bottom of the keel to the deck. I cannot find this number anywhere on the interwebs.

It looks like this is used for calculating the tonnage by the USCG to determine if registration is required. I'm pretty sure that's not the case since it is not currently registered, but you never know.

Help!

Now I do know that the draft is 23" and it looks like the swim step is just above waterline and the deck is just above that so... Maybe it's 2.5' or 2.75? Being a smarty pants I looked up the USCG formula, a closely guarded secret apparently. Plugging in these numbers I get 4.98 for the tonnage (with 2.75). This doesn't seem like an accident so I'm thinking this is right.

But, does anyone know what this actually is?

Also for the curious, the USCG formula (For a V hull like this) is:
(Shape X Keel X Length X Beam X Depth) / 100

Where Shape is 0.67 for most power boats, and Keel is 1.0 for the same.
(Note there is reference to adding in the deck structure, but I believe that's for larger boats than this one.)

Also there is no rounding of the tonnage. Any decimal is dropped so the effective tonnage may be 4. Except I am completely guessing.

One final note (Congrats this post is long and you made it! Oh, that's not the note though). I would love to measure the boat, but I don't have easy access to it at the moment as it's a 3 hour drive away and the seller is not handy at the moment.

 

[techmitch]

Hi All,

New to the forum, and I'm in the process of purchasing a 2009 280 Sundancer and the bank is asking for the dimensions on the boat. Now that's fine and I have the beam, length and draft. However they are also asking for the depth (???), which is defined as the height from the bottom of the keel to the deck. I cannot find this number anywhere on the interwebs.

It looks like this is used for calculating the tonnage by the USCG to determine if registration is required. I'm pretty sure that's not the case since it is not currently registered, but you never know.

Help!

Now I do know that the draft is 23" and it looks like the swim step is just above waterline and the deck is just above that so... Maybe it's 2.5' or 2.75? Being a smarty pants I looked up the USCG formula, a closely guarded secret apparently. Plugging in these numbers I get 4.98 for the tonnage (with 2.75). This doesn't seem like an accident so I'm thinking this is right.

But, does anyone know what this actually is?

Also for the curious, the USCG formula (For a V hull like this) is:
(Shape X Keel X Length X Beam X Depth) / 100

Where Shape is 0.67 for most power boats, and Keel is 1.0 for the same.
(Note there is reference to adding in the deck structure, but I believe that's for larger boats than this one.)

Also there is no rounding of the tonnage. Any decimal is dropped so the effective tonnage may be 4. Except I am completely guessing.

One final note (Congrats this post is long and you made it! Oh, that's not the note though). I would love to measure the boat, but I don't have easy access to it at the moment as it's a 3 hour drive away and the seller is not handy at the moment.

Page 9/5 Welcome aboard CSR. https://owners-resources.searayweb....09_280 Sundancer_280 Sundancer Manual Pdf.pdf

 

[SeaGoat]

Page 9/5 Welcome aboard CSR. https://owners-resources.searayweb.com/owners-manuals-files/2009_280 Sundancer_280 Sundancer Manual Pdf.pdf

Thanks for the link to the manual! Unfortunately this has the height from keel to top of windshield, but not from keel to deck. I don't believe this is the correct number.

Although if someone knows the height from deck to top of windshield, I'd be able to put this to bed!

 

[techmitch]

Thanks for the link to the manual! Unfortunately this has the height from keel to top of windshield, but not from keel to deck. I don't believe this is the correct number.

Although if someone knows the height from deck to top of windshield, I'd be able to put this to bed!

Where are you located? The request seem a bit obscure.

 

[SeaGoat]

I'm in the Seattle, WA area. Also yes, I agree. I think it's a very strange and obscure request from the bank. I've asked them to clarify since this isn't an uncommon boat and it seems like no one has heard of such a request. Im just trying to finish the paperwork so I can close on this vessel and get on the water.

I'd be immensely grateful for any help any one can offer.

 

[techmitch]

I'm in the Seattle, WA area. Also yes, I agree. I think it's a very strange and obscure request from the bank. I've asked them to clarify since this isn't an uncommon boat and it seems like no one has heard of such a request. Im just trying to finish the paperwork so I can close on this vessel and get on the water.

I'd be immensely grateful for any help any one can offer.

"I'd be immensely grateful for any help any one can offer"

Find a new bank/financier, there tons out there.
They must not be experienced with boat loans, can't imagine their rates being competitive.

 

[SeaGoat]

So far they are the best rate. My broker does say they are a pain, but adding a percentage point for the next closest offer out of convenience seems like a waste. I'll figure it out.

Also what they are asking for is a value the USCG references and uses to determine tonnage for a boat so it's not out of nowhere. I believe it's included on the build sheet generated by the manufacturer for each boat for this purpose (USCG registration) but apparently not in the manual and definitely obscure.

 

[techmitch]

So far they are the best rate. My broker does say they are a pain, but adding a percentage point for the next closest offer out of convenience seems like a waste. I'll figure it out.

Also what they are asking for is a value the USCG references and uses to determine tonnage for a boat so it's not out of nowhere. I believe it's included on the build sheet generated by the manufacturer for each boat for this purpose (USCG registration) but apparently not in the manual and definitely obscure.

Well a point is a big deal. You have mentioned the USCG a few times, is the boat documented?

 

[techmitch]

Oh, and is the "broker"/salesman arranging the financing?

 

[SeaGoat]

Boat isn't documented, and the broker did recommend another financier who I'm still waiting on. If they come back with a decent offer then great!

One thing I already regret and would do differently is not having my own broker to represent me. I wish I had known that was a thing.

 

[Blueone]

I would guess as far as the bank is concerned if you have an arch

 

[Steve S]

The information section of that chart lists the dry weight as 8,000 lbs. Also you could figure out the weight of 100 gallons of gas plus 28 gallons of water. That would make it about 4.5 tons. Since it is published by the manufacturer that should suffice.

 

[Woody]

I'm in the Seattle, WA area. Also yes, I agree. I think it's a very strange and obscure request from the bank. I've asked them to clarify since this isn't an uncommon boat and it seems like no one has heard of such a request. Im just trying to finish the paperwork so I can close on this vessel and get on the water.

I'd be immensely grateful for any help any one can offer.

It looks like this is used for calculating the tonnage by the USCG to determine if registration is required. I'm pretty sure that's not the case since it is not currently registered, but you never know.

The USCG does not require that your boat be documented.

I'd ask the bank if they(the bank) are requiring you to document the boat vs regular state titling/registration. If they're asking for the info it sounds like they are but I'd verify that is the case.

I can get some dimensions for you easily later today.

 

[SeaGoat]

Hey thanks for the replies guys!

@Woody that would be fantastic!

Side note the tonnage of a vessel isn't the same as the weight, just FYI. I believe it's a measure of how much water a vessel displaces.

 

[Steve S]

Found the attached info. Note part 10 - "5 Net ton threshold for eligibility". That boat may not be eligible for documentation and may only be titled thru the state.

 

[SeaGoat]

Found the attached info. Note part 10 - "5 Net ton threshold for eligibility". That boat may not be eligible for documentation and may only be titled thru the state.

Yes! This is exactly the document I referred to for the formula, and why I said I don't think this boat meets the criteria, but if I put the wrong dimensions in, then the bank will want to go through the exercise which will cost time and $. Trying to avoid that in the first place, but don't want to just make up or guess at the numbers.

 

[Woody]

Yes! This is exactly the document I referred to for the formula, and why I said I don't think this boat meets the criteria, but if I put the wrong dimensions in, then the bank will want to go through the exercise which will cost time and $. Trying to avoid that in the first place, but don't want to just make up or guess at the numbers.

I went out in the shed and did some measuring. From waterline up to cockpit floor I get an additional 15".

 

[Blueone]

Look at post 11 that’s a 2009 280

 

[SeaGoat]

I went out in the shed and did some measuring. From waterline up to cockpit floor I get an additional 15".

@Woody you are a scholar and a saint! That's what I needed. Thank you!

@Blueone I appreciate your help. I already have the diagram you provided, but it only has the height to the top of windshield, which I can't use.

 

[Steve S]

In rereading this thread... if the bank needs a value, usually the surveyor will provide that figure. Insurance companies accept the figure for "Agreed value". The bank should do the same thing.