Replaced my Tow Vehicle - Out with the Old in with the New

[ChuckW]

Enjoy your new ride! The new 6 speed trans works well, and you will see improved MPG's not having the old 4.1 rear end. I purchased a loaded '09 2500 last year and have had no issues pulling our 290 up and down I-75 multiple times between OH and FLA (loaded with a family of 6 and everything needed for a week of fun). The 290 on traler is approx. 9.5K lbs ready to tow. I average approx 10-11 MPG and run at 2100 RPM at about 75-78 MPH with trans temp at approx 160-180 deg. With a 6" drop hitch, I sit perfectly flat across the rig. Keep the tire pressure at max, safe travels, and most importantly enjoy the time on the water.

Nice, do you have the new manual mode for the transmission? It seems like a nice feature, I can see it coming in handy when you want to force the truck to stay in a particular gear and stop the auto shifting.

 

[ChuckW]

What engine in the '10? I'm pushing it with my 05 6.0 with my 290.Thank go god for flat Florida.

Hey Shore, I just noticed, kinda hard to launch without an outdrive, no? What happened?

 

[zboaterctf]

Nice, do you have the new manual mode for the transmission? It seems like a nice feature, I can see it coming in handy when you want to force the truck to stay in a particular gear and stop the auto shifting.

Yes I do (standard). When using trailer mode I could not get it to manual shift ... however the computer control is awesome and when slowing (like down a hill or off ramp) it auto-downshifts down to slow the rig down. First time it happened it was a little surprise ... but after >8K miles now of towing the 290 it all works very naturally as designed. I do not use a lot of cruise control. Even in the TN mountains, I did not get a lot of up/down shifting (and I stay on the gas to keep at 75 MPH) – gas peddle management.

 

[ChuckW]

Yes I do (standard). When using trailer mode I could not get it to manual shift ... however the computer control is awesome and when slowing (like down a hill or off ramp) it auto-downshifts down to slow the rig down. First time it happened it was a little surprise ... but after >8K miles now of towing the 290 it all works very naturally as designed. I do not use a lot of cruise control. Even in the TN mountains, I did not get a lot of up/down shifting (and I stay on the gas to keep at 75 MPH) – gas peddle management.

Thanks for the tip :thumbsup:

 

[zboaterctf]

What engine in the '10? I'm pushing it with my 05 6.0 with my 290.Thank go god for flat Florida.

I would not want to be pulling that 290 Dancer long distances or through the mountain with your Escalade. I pulled a '92 290 Dancer back and forth from OH to FL for 6 years with a '93 2500 Suburban and that was a load. While the 6.0L engine of the '09/'10 is the same as in your Escalade, the Suburban 2500 tires, brakes, suspension, etc. are very different. Stay safe.

 

[shore]

It's the LQ9 345/400 with 3:73's AWD.I don't tow far at all and not that much really.Even when I pulled her back from Tampa to Daytona the temp gauge got just over halfway at about 70mph.I managed almost 9mpg with the AC in July heat.Slow easy starts and lifting when she shifts goes a long way to keeping the tranny cool.She's got plenty of engine but the brakes are the weak spot.The trailer is 4 wheel disc but only surge.I think I'm right about 11k lbs on the trailer.

As far as the boat we had to drop a new engine/drive in her.I ended up putting a swim platform on the back also....that pic was on the way to do it all.

No way would I pull this thing in the moutains with this Escalade.

 

[390pi]

I think I'm right about 11k lbs on the trailer.

That's about right.

My '92 290 is 11,100# on a triple axle steel trailer; 1/4 fuel, no water.

Tongue weight at 650#

My boat has the twin 4.3's.

FWIW I tow w/ a 2000 Suburban 2500/4wd/6.0/3.73s

 

[CKL]

ChuckW, I have been considering either a '10 GMC Yukon XL 2500 or a Chevrolet Suburban 2500 (to replace my '07 GMC Yukon Denali) like yours to tow my 260, which appears to be equipped similarly to your boat and, therefore, approx the same weight. It would be very informative to hear of your experience and impression with your new one after your trip. I would also have to order one as, so far, no dealer within 300 miles has stocked one.

BTW, I just finished having a gap between the hull and deck on the starboard aft quarter repaired by Sea Ray. It appeared to be exactly like what you went through. I could not understand :smt101 why I was getting water in my bilge until I saw your posts and pictures. Thanks for the help! :smt038 Without it I would probably still be wondering where the water was coming from. Mine sits on a lift in a covered slip and the amount of water in the bilge after a day's use had me worried.

They took off the rail and put in proper screws and 5200 in the affected area.

Have a great trip and thanks again, Charles.

 

[ChuckW]

CLK - glad your water leak is solved. It was a real PITA for me too, but so far so good.:thumbsup:

We'll I've arrived in FL, my first long haul with the new Suburban. Here are my thoughts. In short, I'm dissappointed. The '07 handled the job better hands down. But I haven't lost hope.


The new '10 was softer in the rear end and was unable to tow on flats in 6th gear, didn't have the torque to maintain speed. So in the flats, she was running at 2500 rpms at 72mph. My GPH went down from 8 to 7.2 over what I could do with my '07 for the same trip, same load. Here's what I know to be different between the two rigs:

1. '07 had 16" wheels. '10 has 17" wheels.
2. '10 hitch sits 1" higher off road than the '07 did
3. '07 had 4.10 axle, '10 has the 3.73 (no option for the 4.10 was available)
4. I assume the computer is programmed differently for the two axles and who knows what else.

Now the axle difference doesn't explain the softer rear end. While I don't like it, I can fix it by adding a helper leaf or other load assisting system. I'm also thinking of trying to get more load onto the weight distribution bars and see if that helps any.

The axle and ability to pull the load on the flats in top gear are a bigger concern. I could have an aftermarket upgrade done to the 4.10 and computer reprogrammed, but I'm sure that would void my 5yr/100k mile powertrain warranty and I don't want to lose that. Too much money at risk there. So I fear there is nothing I can reasonable do to help the situation. Ideas?

Here's another kicker. At the time I didn't think much of it so I never posted it at the beginning of this OP. But when I received my '10 it came from the factory with the front tires rubbing on the rear side of the fender well when turned full to either side. So I had the dealer take a look and their suspension guy was surprised it came this way. He said the only thing he could do was crank up on the torsion bars. which would lift the front end up a bit and give the clearance. So he went about it, lifted the front end 1.25", re-aligned it and now they don't hit and I had room to add the mud flaps. I could feel the difference in rise, but the vehicle still looks fine at "rest". The rear still sits slightly higher than the front with no load. The mechanic said it would ride a little harder in the front, but otherwise would be fine. Could this be preventing the weight distribution hitch from getting enough load onto the front suspension, making the rear feel softer?

I love the new slow down feature (or whatever they call it) of the transmission. When slowing the computer automatically down shifts the transmission to allow the engine to assist in breaking. I bit funky to get used to, but works well.

I still love the rig and we wouldn't be without one, but I don't understand why GM gives it the same tow rating as my '07 and yet it performs worse. Especially since they are the same frame and platform between those years. Oh well, more to futz with...

 

[zboaterctf]

CLK - glad your water leak is solved. It was a real PITA for me too, but so far so good.:thumbsup:

We'll I've arrived in FL, my first long haul with the new Suburban. Here are my thoughts. In short, I'm dissappointed. The '07 handled the job better hands down. But I haven't lost hope.




The new '10 was softer in the rear end and was unable to tow on flats in 6th gear, didn't have the torque to maintain speed. So in the flats, she was running at 2500 rpms at 72mph. My GPH went down from 8 to 7.2 over what I could do with my '07 for the same trip, same load. Here's what I know to be different between the two rigs:

1. '07 had 16" wheels. '10 has 17" wheels.
2. '10 hitch sits 1" higher off road than the '07 did
3. '07 had 4.10 axle, '10 has the 3.73 (no option for the 4.10 was available)
4. I assume the computer is programmed differently for the two axles and who knows what else.

Now the axle difference doesn't explain the softer rear end. While I don't like it, I can fix it by adding a helper leaf or other load assisting system. I'm also thinking of trying to get more load onto the weight distribution bars and see if that helps any.

The axle and ability to pull the load on the flats in top gear are a bigger concern. I could have an aftermarket upgrade done to the 4.10 and computer reprogrammed, but I'm sure that would void my 5yr/100k mile powertrain warranty and I don't want to lose that. Too much money at risk there. So I fear there is nothing I can reasonable do to help the situation. Ideas?

Here's another kicker. At the time I didn't think much of it so I never posted it at the beginning of this OP. But when I received my '10 it came from the factory with the front tires rubbing on the rear side of the fender well when turned full to either side. So I had the dealer take a look and their suspension guy was surprised it came this way. He said the only thing he could do was crank up on the torsion bars. which would lift the front end up a bit and give the clearance. So he went about it, lifted the front end 1.25", re-aligned it and now they don't hit and I had room to add the mud flaps. I could feel the difference in rise, but the vehicle still looks fine at "rest". The rear still sits slightly higher than the front with no load. The mechanic said it would ride a little harder in the front, but otherwise would be fine. Could this be preventing the weight distribution hitch from getting enough load onto the front suspension, making the rear feel softer?

I love the new slow down feature (or whatever they call it) of the transmission. When slowing the computer automatically down shifts the transmission to allow the engine to assist in breaking. I bit funky to get used to, but works well.

I still love the rig and we wouldn't be without one, but I don't understand why GM gives it the same tow rating as my '07 and yet it performs worse. Especially since they are the same frame and platform between those years. Oh well, more to futz with...

Interesting on the tire rub. Not sure why your tires rub - do you have mud flaps in the front? My front tires are close, but I do not have the mud flaps - but no issue.

Soft rear end - I do not experience any of this. Based on your towing experience I am sure your tires were at max pressure, tongue weight was in check, and receiver was low enough to make trailer/rig was level. I wonder what impact your front end adjustments had on this.

As for performance - at 2500 RPM at 72 MPH it looks like you were always in 5th. On your '07 with the 4.1 rear end I would think you would have been at about 3K – 3200 RPM in 3rd gear also in the 8 MPG (both using trailer mode). Amazing that the extra 1K–2K lbs. on the trailer keeps you out of 6th gear in the ‘10.

Safe travels … now that you are in FL .. enjoy the water!

 

[390pi]

It's rated at 9,400 for the 4WD version.

Is that the rating on the hitch for dead weight or weight distributing? (usually the rating is higher on the sticker on most hitches)

Did you have to upgrade the factory hitch?

Do you find you really need to run a WD hitch?

Curious. I am also looking at new 2500 Suburbans.

 

[CKL]

Sorry to learn of the shortcomings. Still sounds like a great vehicle.

Did you notice if there was a speed in the mid 60's that enables the transmission to hold 6th gear? I would be willing to go a bit slower if the results are there. Agree that any modification that endangers the warranty is not worth taking.

Now, regarding your "soft year end" (ahem)- it seems entirely possible that the front torsion bar adjustment affected your front/rear weight bias resulting in a greater load on the rear. Has there been a Chevrolet service bulletin about the tire rubbing? Makes me think the '07' 16" tire/wheels might be a better fit and allow for the factory original suspension specifications. Could be worth a dealer inquiry as it should be a fix on their dime.

How much sag is there when you are hitched? Did this change after the suspension modification?

Also, my Yukon came with a self leveling suspension which works great. Do not know why GMC/Chevrolet do not put it on the 2500.

GMC uses a picture on their web site showing a Yukon XL 2500 towing a 260 Sundancer (appears to be a post '04 version). I guess they think it is an appropriate tow vehicle.

Strutmasters.com has some suspension pieces for your Suburban that might help, but I have no personal knowledge.

Thanks for your information. I would like to do a test tow if I can ever find one locally and will probably end up with one these. Unless I can find a pristine, low mileage, used, reasonably priced 3/4 ton 4 wd pick-up to keep as a second vehicle and dedicate it to towing.

I googled "2010 Chevrolet Suburban 2500 modification" and found the following(the Secret Service approves your SUV);

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2010 Chevy Suburban purchases, to include retrofit and upgrade kits

Solicitation Number: HSSS01-10-R-0022
Agency: Department of Homeland Security
Office: United States Secret Service (USSS)
Location: Procurement Division

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Opportunity History

• Original Synopsis Jan 26, 2010
  5:15 pm

Solicitation Number:
HSSS01-10-R-0022

Notice Type:
Presolicitation


Synopsis:
Added: Jan 26, 2010 5:15 pm

The Government intends to award a competitive commercial firm fixed priced type contract for the purchase of two (2) 2010 Model 2500 Chevrolet Suburbans, to include retrofit and installation of customized engine supercharger kit and various upgrades and modifications in accordance with government provided specifications. Delivery will be to the Washington, DC area. Contract award is intended to be made by 22 February 2010. Award will be made on based on best value to the government. The resulting contract will last for 4 months from time of award. The solicitation is unrestricted. The North American Industry Classification System (NAICS) is 336312.

 

[sappington]

I purchased a suburban in jan.2500 LT with tow package, Its an 2003,6.0 vortec,I stole it from a liquidation sale. $6750 out door was $7500 dollars,its in awsome shape runs strong,I low balled the dealer hopeing i could walk away and keep looking they dickerd for a while then said they would do the deal I was SHOCKED. What could I do then.I bought a sub.

 

[CKL]

Good deal Sappington!

 

[Sundancer]

After reading all of this, I think I'll stay with an older burb! I've got a 96 and 99, both are K2500's and they are GREAT tow vehicles! I'd like to have one of the later models that was rated at 12,000 lbs, but 10,000 is fine now that we have a Duramax. We towed our boat and trailer all over the place and they did a great job with our old 250 DA. I know the 260 is heavier, but I like to stay at 80% of the GCWR to assure longevity.

There used to be a place in Colorado somewhere that would take your burb, life it and add a Duramax with Allison under the hood! It was about a $60,000 option as I recall! Add in the price of a NEW 2500 and you were pushing $100K!! It would have been a sweet tow vehicle though!

 

[zboaterctf]

CLK - glad your water leak is solved. It was a real PITA for me too, but so far so good.:thumbsup:

We'll I've arrived in FL, my first long haul with the new Suburban. Here are my thoughts. In short, I'm dissappointed. The '07 handled the job better hands down. But I haven't lost hope.




The new '10 was softer in the rear end and was unable to tow on flats in 6th gear, didn't have the torque to maintain speed. So in the flats, she was running at 2500 rpms at 72mph. My GPH went down from 8 to 7.2 over what I could do with my '07 for the same trip, same load. Here's what I know to be different between the two rigs:

1. '07 had 16" wheels. '10 has 17" wheels.
2. '10 hitch sits 1" higher off road than the '07 did
3. '07 had 4.10 axle, '10 has the 3.73 (no option for the 4.10 was available)
4. I assume the computer is programmed differently for the two axles and who knows what else.

Now the axle difference doesn't explain the softer rear end. While I don't like it, I can fix it by adding a helper leaf or other load assisting system. I'm also thinking of trying to get more load onto the weight distribution bars and see if that helps any.

The axle and ability to pull the load on the flats in top gear are a bigger concern. I could have an aftermarket upgrade done to the 4.10 and computer reprogrammed, but I'm sure that would void my 5yr/100k mile powertrain warranty and I don't want to lose that. Too much money at risk there. So I fear there is nothing I can reasonable do to help the situation. Ideas?

Here's another kicker. At the time I didn't think much of it so I never posted it at the beginning of this OP. But when I received my '10 it came from the factory with the front tires rubbing on the rear side of the fender well when turned full to either side. So I had the dealer take a look and their suspension guy was surprised it came this way. He said the only thing he could do was crank up on the torsion bars. which would lift the front end up a bit and give the clearance. So he went about it, lifted the front end 1.25", re-aligned it and now they don't hit and I had room to add the mud flaps. I could feel the difference in rise, but the vehicle still looks fine at "rest". The rear still sits slightly higher than the front with no load. The mechanic said it would ride a little harder in the front, but otherwise would be fine. Could this be preventing the weight distribution hitch from getting enough load onto the front suspension, making the rear feel softer?

I love the new slow down feature (or whatever they call it) of the transmission. When slowing the computer automatically down shifts the transmission to allow the engine to assist in breaking. I bit funky to get used to, but works well.

I still love the rig and we wouldn't be without one, but I don't understand why GM gives it the same tow rating as my '07 and yet it performs worse. Especially since they are the same frame and platform between those years. Oh well, more to futz with...

For kicks I went out tonight and measured my tires to wheel well's for comparison (burban empty but full fuel tank). My front tires have about 1" clearance on sides when turning. My front tires are 6.25" from top of tire to wheel well sheet metal, and rears are 8.75" from top of tire to wheel well sheet metal. I ran towing with approx 70lbs in the rear and 65lbs in the front. Not sure that any of that helps - but strange they had to adjust your front end from factory. Have fun in FL.

 

[ChuckW]

For kicks I went out tonight and measured my tires to wheel well's for comparison (burban empty but full fuel tank). My front tires have about 1" clearance on sides when turning. My front tires are 6.25" from top of tire to wheel well sheet metal, and rears are 8.75" from top of tire to wheel well sheet metal. I ran towing with approx 70lbs in the rear and 65lbs in the front. Not sure that any of that helps - but strange they had to adjust your front end from factory. Have fun in FL.

Just measured mine, I have 7.5" in the front and 9.25" in the rear. What's your tire size? Mine is 265/70R17

 

[ChuckW]

After reading all of this, I think I'll stay with an older burb! I've got a 96 and 99, both are K2500's and they are GREAT tow vehicles! I'd like to have one of the later models that was rated at 12,000 lbs, but 10,000 is fine now that we have a Duramax. We towed our boat and trailer all over the place and they did a great job with our old 250 DA. I know the 260 is heavier, but I like to stay at 80% of the GCWR to assure longevity.

There used to be a place in Colorado somewhere that would take your burb, life it and add a Duramax with Allison under the hood! It was about a $60,000 option as I recall! Add in the price of a NEW 2500 and you were pushing $100K!! It would have been a sweet tow vehicle though!

Sticker on mine was 56k (I paid less), but would still put it well over 100k.

 

[ChuckW]

Is that the rating on the hitch for dead weight or weight distributing? (usually the rating is higher on the sticker on most hitches)

Did you have to upgrade the factory hitch?

Do you find you really need to run a WD hitch?

Curious. I am also looking at new 2500 Suburbans.

No, the hitch is a rated 10k. The vehicle rated 9,400, however it clearly states that in order to get the 9,400 rating a WD hitch is required. Without WD Hitch the rating is only 5K. My WD hitch is rated at 14k.

Sorry to learn of the shortcomings. Still sounds like a great vehicle.

Did you notice if there was a speed in the mid 60's that enables the transmission to hold 6th gear? I would be willing to go a bit slower if the results are there. Agree that any modification that endangers the warranty is not worth taking.

Now, regarding your "soft year end" (ahem)- it seems entirely possible that the front torsion bar adjustment affected your front/rear weight bias resulting in a greater load on the rear. Has there been a Chevrolet service bulletin about the tire rubbing? Makes me think the '07' 16" tire/wheels might be a better fit and allow for the factory original suspension specifications. Could be worth a dealer inquiry as it should be a fix on their dime.

How much sag is there when you are hitched? Did this change after the suspension modification?

Also, my Yukon came with a self leveling suspension which works great. Do not know why GMC/Chevrolet do not put it on the 2500.

GMC uses a picture on their web site showing a Yukon XL 2500 towing a 260 Sundancer (appears to be a post '04 version). I guess they think it is an appropriate tow vehicle.

Strutmasters.com has some suspension pieces for your Suburban that might help, but I have no personal knowledge.

Thanks for your information. I would like to do a test tow if I can ever find one locally and will probably end up with one these. Unless I can find a pristine, low mileage, used, reasonably priced 3/4 ton 4 wd pick-up to keep as a second vehicle and dedicate it to towing.

I googled "2010 Chevrolet Suburban 2500 modification" and found the following(the Secret Service approves your SUV);


Buyers:

• Login | Register
• Vendors:
  
  Login | Register
• Accessibility

2010 Chevy Suburban purchases, to include retrofit and upgrade kits

Solicitation Number: HSSS01-10-R-0022
Agency: Department of Homeland Security
Office: United States Secret Service (USSS)
Location: Procurement Division

• Print
• Link Copy or Bookmark this Page
  Copy the url below for a direct link to this page.
  
  Bookmark this page by right-clicking here and choosing "Add to Favorites"
  
  

• Notice Details
• Packages
• Interested Vendors List

Opportunity History

• Original Synopsis Jan 26, 2010
  5:15 pm

Solicitation Number:
HSSS01-10-R-0022

Notice Type:
Presolicitation


Synopsis:
Added: Jan 26, 2010 5:15 pm

The Government intends to award a competitive commercial firm fixed priced type contract for the purchase of two (2) 2010 Model 2500 Chevrolet Suburbans, to include retrofit and installation of customized engine supercharger kit and various upgrades and modifications in accordance with government provided specifications. Delivery will be to the Washington, DC area. Contract award is intended to be made by 22 February 2010. Award will be made on based on best value to the government. The resulting contract will last for 4 months from time of award. The solicitation is unrestricted. The North American Industry Classification System (NAICS) is 336312.

I see more sag when dropping the trailer on the hitch over what I had with the '07. Don't know about pre-front torsion adjustment, as this was done before I hooked up the trailer.

Couldn't find a speed to hold 6th gear, unless I was running down hil...:smt089

Interesting on the tire rub. Not sure why your tires rub - do you have mud flaps in the front? My front tires are close, but I do not have the mud flaps - but no issue.

Soft rear end - I do not experience any of this. Based on your towing experience I am sure your tires were at max pressure, tongue weight was in check, and receiver was low enough to make trailer/rig was level. I wonder what impact your front end adjustments had on this.

As for performance - at 2500 RPM at 72 MPH it looks like you were always in 5th. On your '07 with the 4.1 rear end I would think you would have been at about 3K – 3200 RPM in 3rd gear also in the 8 MPG (both using trailer mode). Amazing that the extra 1K–2K lbs. on the trailer keeps you out of 6th gear in the ‘10.

Safe travels … now that you are in FL .. enjoy the water!

The rub occured before we even got to the mud flaps. I'll be going back to the dealer when I get back to MA to discuss options on the front end and find out why the rear would be softer over my '07

 

[tdappleman]

I'm a little surprised they adjusted the torsion bars to resolve the rubbing. I'd be concerned the alignment settings really allowed them to adjust the camber out cause by the adjustment. The end result will be a stiffer front end and will affect the way it will tow and the way the weight distribution hitch will truly be able to 'shift' weight to the front. Keep a close eye on the edges of your front tires for accelerated wear or cupping of the tread blocks - this will tell you if your alignment is out of spec.

The softer rear springs are usually there to give a better ride - but keep in mind you are also over their towing limits so it may be adequate for smaller and lighter loads. I wouldn't recommend helper springs - get a complete replacement set of rear springs which will give you better results in the long run. The Excursions come with fairly soft springs and the guys who tow a lot typically swap the springs out for ones from an F250 or F350. You can also install a RAS setup - more info here: http://www.activesuspension.com/