Riviera 46 Sports Motor Yacht....thoughts?

[quality time]

Going to a 1.6 million dollar pod boat to avoid a "possible" $15k QSM exhaust leak repair seems a bit extreme. Seems like a 52DB would be a much better buy considering you'd easily spend that on haul outs and pod maintenance over the years. Not to mention the million dollar up front savings.

 

[lawndoctor]

No issues, just don't want to write that check.

Riviera makes beautiful boats but their use of pods has kept us away. Our MAN direct drives have performed flawlessly. They are quiet, smooth, and efficient. We do not spend any more on maintenance than our friends with similarly sized Volvos and Cats.

 

[ranger58sb]

No issues, just don't want to write that check.

OK.

FWIW, I haven't noticed our MAN maintenance expense being any higher than other similar-sized diesels. This after we did a costly major service because of previous owner neglect, though.

And then I usually do the minor work -- oil and filter changes, etc. -- myself.

I suspect the newer I6-800 would be about the cat's meow in a boat our size; better access down the center of the engine room, compared to our V8-900s.

-Chris

 

[copb8tx]

Kind of timely. Just came up a few minutes ago

https://boattest.com/boats/riviera/...TtQ&utm_content=267233393&utm_source=hs_email

 

[Shaps]

Beautiful boat. The 3rd stateroom, while small, would work for us.

All the naysayers of pods, honestly...

All due respect, without first hand experience, please...

They are another mechanical system that needs to be maintained. I get it, if it isn't for you. However, that doesn't mean they are bad. For boats in this size range, they are a great propulsion package, IMHO.

 

[FootballFan]

Beautiful boat. The 3rd stateroom, while small, would work for us.

All the naysayers of pods, honestly...

All due respect, without first hand experience, please...

They are another mechanical system that needs to be maintained. I get it, if it isn't for you. However, that doesn't mean they are bad. For boats in this size range, they are a great propulsion package, IMHO.

My "hands on" experience as an operator is not as an owner, rather with a bare boat charter a couple of years ago in the pacific northwest. Chartered a boat for a week which had pods. I have never seen anything comparable to the ability to maneuver and move the boat in close quarters.

The ability to move a boat in multiple dimensions - at an angle towards a dock while rotating slowly was accomplished it seems more about just thinking about it - no coordination of movements by transmissions and thrusters. Just push and twist the joy stick.

Hands down, pods are nice for docking a boat.

Now on the negative side, my perspective from a "keep them running" perspective is not as an owner but from friends who have bought and tried to keep running for long periods of time. My input is not "internet" based, just what people who I have known well for a number of years outside of boating contacts. Couple of these folks were "money is no object" when it comes to maintaining - they wanted a boat they could cruise reliably for 120+ nights a year.

It's interesting it seems the bulk of the problems that I have heard about were not so much systemic (pods bad in general) but with individual units. The overall complexity of the solution does make it more likely for failure.

 

[Irie308]

OK.

FWIW, I haven't noticed our MAN maintenance expense being any higher than other similar-sized diesels. This after we did a costly major service because of previous owner neglect, though.

And then I usually do the minor work -- oil and filter changes, etc. -- myself.

I suspect the newer I6-800 would be about the cat's meow in a boat our size; better access down the center of the engine room, compared to our V8-900s.

-Chris

That's good to hear. Our constraint is that we own our 50' slip. We have no plans of moving marinas as its very cost effective and close to home. We can winter there if we choose to. Largest boat they will allow in the slip is 55 LOA. We have considered and looked at the 52DB with the MANN motors. What I find questionable is that they often seem to be priced well below the ones equipped with the QSM11's. Have been told that generally its due to the 1000 hour service. We absolutely love our 42DB my only wish is for a 3rd stateroom. She is equipped with bow and stern thrusters, hydraulic lift and the mechanical Cummins. I do all of our maintenance down to servicing coolers. This makes it hard to jump into anything else that would significantly increase cost of ownership. I know pods would add to this however like I said its more about the layout of this Rivera rather than the power and propulsion package. The wish is that Sea Ray went a different route but no such luck. For example the newer 47 DB Has a tremendous layout but again no 3rd stateroom though I think the did offer it as an option perhaps overseas. Definitely not looking to make a new boat purchase either as the depreciation is for someone else not us.

 

[SeaNile]

That's good to hear. Our constraint is that we own our 50' slip. We have no plans of moving marinas as its very cost effective and close to home. We can winter there if we choose to. Largest boat they will allow in the slip is 55 LOA. We have considered and looked at the 52DB with the MANN motors. What I find questionable is that they often seem to be priced well below the ones equipped with the QSM11's. Have been told that generally its due to the 1000 hour service. We absolutely love our 42DB my only wish is for a 3rd stateroom. She is equipped with bow and stern thrusters, hydraulic lift and the mechanical Cummins. I do all of our maintenance down to servicing coolers. This makes it hard to jump into anything else that would significantly increase cost of ownership. I know pods would add to this however like I said its more about the layout of this Rivera rather than the power and propulsion package. The wish is that Sea Ray went a different route but no such luck. For example the newer 47 DB Has a tremendous layout but again no 3rd stateroom though I think the did offer it as an option perhaps overseas. Definitely not looking to make a new boat purchase either as the depreciation is for someone else not us.

Not to completely hijack the thread but I tend to agree that the 42/44DB is the perfect boat. I still might get one some day.....

 

[lawndoctor]

All the naysayers of pods, honestly...
All due respect, without first hand experience, please...

Direct observation from multiple dock neighbors, all of whom have decades of boating experience with multiple propulsion systems. The slip next to me is a good example. The Riviera 54 IPS-driven owner who was there for five years constantly complained about problems with the pods and said he would never buy a boat again with pods. The Sea Ray shaft-driven 55 owner who is in the slip now had pods on his last boat and when he was looking to move up his primary requirement was no pods. The guy in the next slip over owned a Sea Ray Zeus-driven 50. He spent months last summer going back and forth with Sea Ray and Cummins with pod problems and finally had to replace one of them. He sold right after that and is now looking for his next boat, which he said will "no way" have pods. Granted not everyone I know with pods has had bad experience with them, and it seems the IPS fares better than the Zeus/Cummins, but for either system to me the incidence seems too high to ignore.

 

[Shaps]

Apologies to OP for the hijack...

@lawndoctor, like anything else, there are always individual cases. Without knowing the specifics of how your dock neighbors maintained (and by whom) and the issues they had, makes it very difficult to comment.
I maintain, pods have a place among propulsion systems on boats of a certain size range. As an owner of a pod boat, I know what it takes to maintain the systems and do it. I find the superior close quarter maneuverability, better fuel economy and overall efficiency a win. For me they work, for you they may not. No need to disparage a particular technology.

FWIW, if you look at those Mercury 600s that are all the rage, the lower units are effectively pods.

and to get back on track, I wouldn't think twice about buying that Riviera.

 

[FootballFan]

Apologies to OP for the hijack...

@lawndoctor, like anything else, there are always individual cases. Without knowing the specifics of how your dock neighbors maintained (and by whom) and the issues they had, makes it very difficult to comment.
I maintain, pods have a place among propulsion systems on boats of a certain size range. As an owner of a pod boat, I know what it takes to maintain the systems and do it. I find the superior close quarter maneuverability, better fuel economy and overall efficiency a win. For me they work, for you they may not. No need to disparage a particular technology.

FWIW, if you look at those Mercury 600s that are all the rage, the lower units are effectively pods.

and to get back on track, I wouldn't think twice about buying that Riviera.

It's not all about the maintenance. They are significantly more complex. Now, I could see the argument that even when someone "thought" they were maintaining - not everything was correctly executed on maintenance. But that takes me back to the issue of complexity - harder to find "experts".

One of my friends experience was with a brand new boat, under warranty. The manufacturer along with Volvo could not keep one of the pods working correctly without coming out of the water every 90-100 hours. The boat had 2 pods. One was problem free, the other continual problems.

 

[Golfman25]

It's not all about the maintenance. They are significantly more complex. Now, I could see the argument that even when someone "thought" they were maintaining - not everything was correctly executed on maintenance. But that takes me back to the issue of complexity - harder to find "experts".

One of my friends experience was with a brand new boat, under warranty. The manufacturer along with Volvo could not keep one of the pods working correctly without coming out of the water every 90-100 hours. The boat had 2 pods. One was problem free, the other continual problems.

Any propulsion system that hangs thousands $ underwater is not a good idea for a rec boater IMO. We boaters tolerate IOs and Outboards because there are very few options for small boats. In the large boat category, we have options -- Pick your poison.

 

[lawndoctor]

@lawndoctor[/USER]No need to disparage a particular technology.

Not intended as disparagement of the technology, just the facts as I have observed them, intended as a response to your dismissal of any information not based on "first hand experience." As I said, the Riviera is a beautiful boat. There are some who think its use of pods is a plus, and others who think it's a minus. It will be interesting to see how this continues to play out over time.

 

[FootballFan]

I am the first to acknowledge the superior handling performance of pods.

 

[Shaps]

Any propulsion system that hangs thousands $ underwater is not a good idea for a rec boater IMO. We boaters tolerate IOs and Outboards because there are very few options for small boats. In the large boat category, we have options -- Pick your poison.

How much does a prop on a 58 cost? thousands $$$$

 

[FootballFan]

I'll jump in. Haven't priced one for a 58 - guessing 7-9k.

 

[Shaps]

Any propulsion system that hangs thousands $ underwater is not a good idea for a rec boater IMO. ....

I'll jump in. Haven't priced one for a 58 - guessing 7-9k.

Sounds like tens of thousands on a recreational boat.

 

[Golfman25]

How much does a prop on a 58 cost? thousands $$$$

Sure, but a lot less if it isn't also attached to a pod which gets damaged as well.

Nothing like missing the point though.

 

[Shaps]

Sure, but a lot less if it isn't also attached to a pod which gets damaged as well.

Nothing like missing the point though.

I get the point.

You said it, pick your poison.

My point is, there are 10s of thousands of dollars sitting under the boat regardless of the system. Shafts, rudders, props etc...

Its not an inexpensive hobby.

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

I'll always remember what my surveyor said about pod drives.

Something I had not considered.

When used for docking, or maintaining a position in a wind or current the drives are CONSTANTLY NON-STOP MOVING

FWD/REVERSE and or TURNING

These gyrations continue, non-stop, and while they are successful in handling, maneuvering and economy, the constant non-stop nature of the design does accelerate the wear points.

I believe his observation isn't often discussed, but has some validity.

BEST !

RWS