Shower Sump Switch Failure

[osd9]

There have been a few other threads here on CSR with regard to the reliability of the shower sump pumps, the switches and the non returning valves and I also have had my share of issues and posted in most of the threads. This thread is dedicated to the sump switches....

I just had the pleasure of changing out the shower sump switches 'again'......this is the third set of switches/sumps since new on this 2003 boat.....the main problem seems to be the switches, although I've also had some problems with the non returning valves wearing and not closing and the pumps themselves. btw....putting bleach down the drains is not a good idea because the bleach will eat at the rubber in the non returning vavles and they will lose their ability to close off and you may end up in a constant pump on / pump off cycling situation...back on topic...the swithces....

Around the January time frame, I boarded my boat (I winter in water) to look things over, and I heard a pump sound....Hmmmm....not the damn sumps again???? Yup...one of the sumps was contantly on, so I just removed the fuse and figured I'd deal with it in the spring....well it's spring and I just dealt with it. I have two sumps in my 410....you can see in the pic below that I have the fuse and switch out of the foward sump...

I ended up replacing both switches but figured that I'd try and do a post-mortum to see why this things keeps failing.

Here's one of the switches out of the boat...it still looks new...

Here, I disassembled the floating mechanisim for a better look at what may be happening....

In the next two photos, I simulated the switch in the up and the down position, and you can see that no matter which position the float is in.....I'm getting a short, which would signal the pump to go 'on'.....

Up here....

and Down here....

Soooo....I further disassembled the float switch from the float/arm assembly and turned the switch manully....and wallah!!!!

First simulating float up (pump on) which is a short on the meter.....

And 'then' I was able to simulate the float down (pump off) which is an open on the meter.....

What this proves, is that the switch itself is still good....it's the arm that won't give enough swing to fully turn the switch on or off....

You can see inside the plastic arm, that there is a metal piece to avoid wear on the plastic cut out....

There are also little plastic 'tabs' on the switch body which limit the float arm's throw.

So, I've been throwing away all these switches, and buying news ones, and ITT has actually send me some new free ones, but the problem is still there....I guess it's just a matter of time or cycles before the new switches I just installed fail again......

Any thoughts or ideas?????

 

[Four Suns]

I have a bigger sump box but the switch is the same. I actually carry a spare switch and pump because that is the one thing that has failed on me and it's just a PITA not to have a sump box working.

I've seen somewhere how sump switches are available with no moving parts and have a sensor on the end of a rod to determine if there is water present or not... that's probably the best solution.

 

[osd9]

I just took apart the actual switch housing and all's that's in there is cam and what looks likes a set of points from a chevy 350....

 

[Newbie]

Dom, I've had the same issues like nearly every other Sea Ray owner. As Gary said, I replaced mine with a sensing switch after 3 failures in a few short months. It was 40 bucks at west but has worked fine for a year now. These solid state switches seem to be the way to go for a shower sump.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...L=true&storeNum=11&subdeptNum=75&classNum=213

SB

 

[Mr Salt]

On Friday I had to replace the float switch in my gray water sump as well. This is the first switch I have had to replace in the 8 years I owned the boat. The switch had the same problem, it shorted out. I figured that while I clean the sump after each trip, I never got inside the switch cover and it was really crudded up. After I removed the crud it still was shorted. I didn't disassemble so I am not sure what made it fail, but it would seem to me their life is short.

 

[osd9]

SB....were you able to retrofit that switch into the existing sump box....

 

[37 Dancer]

Yup........This is my 3rd new shower sump in 4 seasons of ownership on my 370DA.

EXACT same situation as Dom...I winter in water.......I run pink in my shower to winterize.....I boarded the boat in mid January....to find the red light on my dash "on"...for the forward bildge pump.......lift the floor board....and my shower sump pump is running......so I cut the feed to the float switch. I assume it has something to do with the chemicals in the pink ....that shorts out the switch ????

I just changed the shower sump yesterday !!!

 

[Newbie]

SB....were you able to retrofit that switch into the existing sump box....

Yes. But, there is only one screw holding it in place as of now. I kind of forgot about it since it has been working flawlessly for a year now. I need to get the other side mounted down somehow. IIRC, the old screw holes were raised bosses. I was planning on glueing down a small 1/4 piece of starboard to screw the other side of the switch to but have not gotten there yet. Its probably not even necessary though, it ain't going nowhere even with only one screw.
SB

BTW, I use the bleach in it about one a month. I'd rather replace the one way ever year or two and have a clean, operational sump box than have it quit during a trip. At least if it is cycling, you know the valve needs replacing and the switch is working as it should.

 

[osd9]

Don:

I don't think that the pink has anything to do with the failure, but I could be wrong. The switch housing is sealed. If you look at the pics above, the switch itself still works....it's the 'throw' on the arm that's the problem.....I think the cam on the inside just wears out and the arm needs more throw to flip the 'contacts' inside the housing....I guess in a pinch you could just break off the tabs on the switch housing.

I like the switch that SB used. I already have two more spares in my locker, so I should be OK for the rest of this season before I need to consider a change-over.

 

[37 Dancer]

OK....... I'll go with that diagnosis........I was grasping for straws ....thinking that the switched shorted out. Not taking it apart to check it.....but just changing out the shower box.

I have the 2 old shower boxes.....and will now take the last one apart and check the throw of the float switch.

How does that sealed switch mount....it appears to only have one mounting screw ? What mods need to be done to the box ?

Thanks guys..........

 

[boatmailster]

Since mercury switches are no longer made, new style had high failure rate.
Supposedly switches manufactured after september 07 had been redesigned and works OK
I've seen float switch melted through bottom of shower sump!

 

[douglee25]

Google 'Rule Eco Switch'.

That is what you want to replace your float switch with. It works on head pressure.

Doug

 

[trit21]

BTW, I use the bleach in it about one a month. I'd rather replace the one way ever year or two and have a clean, operational sump box than have it quit during a trip. At least if it is cycling, you know the valve needs replacing and the switch is working as it should.

Don't mean to highjack a thread but where do you get those one way diaphrams for the sump at? Does West Marine carry them or do you need to get them from the SeaRay dealer?

 

[Four Suns]

Don't mean to highjack a thread but where do you get those one way diaphrams for the sump at? Does West Marine carry them or do you need to get them from the SeaRay dealer?

They are called Whale Valves.

I get mine from Jamestown Distributors... and I carry a few spares. They are on every bilge pump on the boat (I have 7 of them with the sump boxes). I wish they just sold the rubber valve inside... it's just 4 screws to pull apart.

 

[Pseudomind]

I have to admit this is one very good thread and some good information provided.

Good job with the photos osd9, Gary and the others who posted

:thumbsup:

 

[Larry&Leisa]

I have to admit this is one very good thread and some good information provided.

Good job with the photos osd9, Gary and the others who posted

:thumbsup:

I'll second that and add timely as well. I'm going to try the ECO switch. I had bought a new pump thinking there wasn't much way a simple thing like the switch would go bad. ( I know I should have investigated a little bit but I was away from the boat but in BW. But hey.. I've got a discount back up now!)

 

[The Bill Collector]

I replaced mine with this one......(sump box) $43.99

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/onli...ode+matchpartial+rel+Inactive/act/A03/Ntk/All

Bilge Pump Switch <LI type=square>Submersible Electronic Bilge Pump Switch

Instead of an unreliable and short-lived mechanical float switch, the Water Witch Bilge Pump Switches 217 & 230 have no moving parts and require no adjustments. This eliminates the chance of your battery dying or your pump burning out because of a jammed-on float switch. Temperature, humidity or electrical noise will not affect this switch, nor will it interfere with other electronics. Even with a layer of oil or gasoline in the bilge, the pump will be activated once the level of fluid in the bilge rises to allow water to come in contact with the switch

Features:

<LI type=square>Switch activates pump when the exposed capacitance sensor element is continually exposed to liquid water for 6 to 8 seconds (in saltwater, only one sensor needs to be in contact with bilge water) <LI type=square>14 second end-of-cycle delay ensures bilge hose can drain completely without re-activating the pump <LI type=square>Mounting height of switch determines at what water level the pump is activated; usually mounted just above level of “backflow” water at end of pump cycle <LI type=square>Can be mounted at any angle, at any orientation <LI type=square>Can be used with 3-way panel switches (on-auto-off) <LI type=square>Dimensions: 2- 5/8"W x1- 5/8"H x 1- 5/8"D <LI type=square>7-year limited warranty

 

[Groucho]

Same problem in my

1990 220 DA

1999 270 DA

2006 290 DA (yep...already)

:smt089

 

[osd9]

That 14 second end of cycle delay needs a little looking into.....

Anyone know about how full the sumps get in 14 seconds with the 'average' shower on full flow assuming shore water hooked up at 40psi or so?

Mark....got any pics of the install mounting you'd care to share????

 

[The Bill Collector]

That 14 second end of cycle delay needs a little looking into.....

Anyone know about how full the sumps get in 14 seconds with the 'average' shower on full flow assuming shore water hooked up at 40psi or so?

Mark....got any pics of the install mounting you'd care to share????

It just sits in the bottom of my shower/sink/ac/..? sump box...

Sorry, no pic's but I believe what they are referring to is the switch keeps the pump running after water is off of the top contact points to drain the sump completely.... 7 year warranty and I'm a year #2 without a glitch....