So frustrated!

[Creekwood]

You clearly are not an opportunistic politician. If you want to redistribute the wealth of others; Global Warming, the China Virus and Socialism are your best friends.

BTW I feel for the folks in Canada. That said.....didn't all the dem candidates hold their health system up as the shining example for the US to follow?

It has nothing to do with the health care system in Canada and everything to do with economic leverage for access to vaccines. The US funded a huge portion of research into vaccines, as did other countries with the large pharmaceutical companies. Canada has none, so we had to wait in line to buy them, with no economic leverage. That is the primary reason for lack of supply in Canada as compared to the US. Sometimes living in the apartment above the gorilla is not an advantage LOL.

I know a few Doctors that are "involved" in Ontario decision making and there are actions coming as vaccine supply increases in Canada to accelerate the second doses. The ONLY reason for delaying second doses what the fact that medical experts said that the first dose gives a significant improvement in the chances of COVID causing sever illness, so they decided to vaccinate as many high risk with dose 1 as they could until supplies increased. They just decided to decrease the age that people can sign up to get it to 40. So that is in place now. The next stage when the large shipments of vaccines come is to accelerate 2nd doses for the high risk groups.

The Ontario hospital ICU's are rapidly filling with severe cases, mostly of variants. The hospital crisis is real. Many of them will make it, but a lot won't. In the meantime, full ICU's means that car accidents, heart attacks, strokes, and other emergency issues will be impacted if ICU's are full. That is the crisis that this lockdown is trying to avert.

And by the way, I disagree with some of the lockdown aspects. They are using a shotgun approach rather than a rifle. There are some rifle shots, like focusing on high risk places/employers. But they waited too long to do that, and then case numbers skyrocketed.

 

[northern]

Guess Canada figures they can change things quicker than others. We live in Alberta and I was able to go and get parts for my trolling motor today ant an open shop.. It is fairly big place and they said they are having difficulty getting part. What cost me $5 in Washington cost me $15 today.
Marx said, "Remove one freedom per generation and soon you will have no freedom and no one would have noticed."

 

[bajturner]

Blah, Blah, Blah. Do you have evidence that lockdowns "work?" And for what purpose? And do those studies take into account all of the negative effects of lockdowns? Lockdowns are draconian and as applicable to boating, and outdoor activity, are foolish, stupid, ignorant, idiotic, and dumb.

Nice! Of all the discussions I have, I like the ones that include blah blah blahs the best...instant credibility!

Which evidence would you like? One can look through the lens of "lockdowns impinge on my freedom and don't work" and provide the evidence that show it doesn't work, or one can get on a high horse and give data to support the condescending, snobby, self-righteous position that lockdowns are the only way and are for the greater good.

Both sets of data can be refuted, and fairly intelligently so (but more often in the absence of objective intelligence).

I had to come at this a little differently, with no pre-existing bias as to the answer.

I have two teenagers and a wife in the middle of chemo cancer treatment. Any bad virus, COVID or not, has the potential to kill her; COVID would seem like a really bad idea. Extended lockdowns could also be extremely detrimental for a young person's mental health. When making decisions about what to do or not do regardless of government restrictions, I didn't care about pathetic, self-centered rants about freedoms, nor selfish tantrums from grown adults about not being able to do what they want who put themselves first at all times, nor small-thinking mouthpieces that would defend their belief of the truth at all costs, nor idiot politicians with their own agendas.

As a well-educated family, with good common sense and backgrounds in science and some friends in medicine, we tried to really assess the risks. It was back to first principles and truly considering what logic would pass the risk litmus test without prejudice. What we found, when you really may be putting lives on the line, is no decision was clearly the best one.

Does a mask help? Of course it does...on the surface. There are a whole bunch of variables that can turn the benefit backwards, however. Is there benefit to the practice for us or those around us?

Does a lockdown help? Again, on the surface it seems to. There are regional examples that show it does (and some that don't). That is what you do with any dangerous, transmittable disease...you lock it up, or someone that is highly vulnerable to contagions...you isolate them. It would seem that it could help a vulnerable family. But does it scale? Does it really help long-term? Does it create too much dry kindling for potential future infections? Does it do the same to a family for every other virus out there and you really just have to take your chances because you can't hide forever? What about the myriad of indirect side-effects, do they outweigh the benefits? Is it too much to expect. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the type of thinking we did.

Anyone that says they know the answer to this is glib, and fooling themselves.

 

[Golfman25]

Nice! Of all the discussions I have, I like the ones that include blah blah blahs the best...instant credibility!

Which evidence would you like? One can look through the lens of "lockdowns impinge on my freedom and don't work" and provide the evidence that show it doesn't work, or one can get on a high horse and give data to support the condescending, snobby, self-righteous position that lockdowns are the only way and are for the greater good.

Both sets of data can be refuted, and fairly intelligently so (but more often in the absence of objective intelligence).

I had to come at this a little differently, with no pre-existing bias as to the answer.

I have two teenagers and a wife in the middle of chemo cancer treatment. Any bad virus, COVID or not, has the potential to kill her; COVID would seem like a really bad idea. Extended lockdowns could also be extremely detrimental for a young person's mental health. When making decisions about what to do or not do regardless of government restrictions, I didn't care about pathetic, self-centered rants about freedoms, nor selfish tantrums from grown adults about not being able to do what they want who put themselves first at all times, nor small-thinking mouthpieces that would defend their belief of the truth at all costs, nor idiot politicians with their own agendas.

As a well-educated family, with good common sense and backgrounds in science and some friends in medicine, we tried to really assess the risks. It was back to first principles and truly considering what logic would pass the risk litmus test without prejudice. What we found, when you really may be putting lives on the line, is no decision was clearly the best one.

Does a mask help? Of course it does...on the surface. There are a whole bunch of variables that can turn the benefit backwards, however. Is there benefit to the practice for us or those around us?

Does a lockdown help? Again, on the surface it seems to. There are regional examples that show it does (and some that don't). That is what you do with any dangerous, transmittable disease...you lock it up, or someone that is highly vulnerable to contagions...you isolate them. It would seem that it could help a vulnerable family. But does it scale? Does it really help long-term? Does it create too much dry kindling for potential future infections? Does it do the same to a family for every other virus out there and you really just have to take your chances because you can't hide forever? What about the myriad of indirect side-effects, do they outweigh the benefits? Is it too much to expect. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the type of thinking we did.

Anyone that says they know the answer to this is glib, and fooling themselves.

In other words, lockdowns don't really work. And the consequences will have long lasting effects.

Now if you want to tell me, maybe it's a good idea to reduce capacity at indoor sporting events, large group gatherings, or even restaurants, then have at it. If you want to tell met that wearing a proper mask, properly, ie; not constantly touching it, at the proper time (and not the cotton POS masks we use now) will help, no problem. But don't tell me it makes any sense to lock people in their homes and close outdoor locations, including marinas and boat yards which allow for distancing and other precautions. And don't tell me I have to wear a mask driving alone in my car or walking outside.

Now if you want to see the dumbest people ever, watch these clowns -- VACCINATED government officials, socially distanced, wearning masks, telling me "vaccinations work."

 

[Woody]

It has nothing to do with the health care system in Canada and everything to do with economic leverage for access to vaccines. The US funded a huge portion of research into vaccines, as did other countries with the large pharmaceutical companies. Canada has none, so we had to wait in line to buy them, with no economic leverage. That is the primary reason for lack of supply in Canada as compared to the US. Sometimes living in the apartment above the gorilla is not an advantage LOL.

I think your assessment is lacking. Here's an example, Chile...they don't produce vaccines in house but have one of the most successful vaccination efforts in the world. This is what they did,
'Amid international competition for doses, vaccinating fast means securing supply. Chile hasn’t had to deal with some of the shortages that have delayed vaccine rollouts in other countries. It has secured enough doses to vaccinate its entire adult population of roughly 15 million — twice.

That’s because Chile hedged its bets by signing contracts with as many manufacturers as possible, often before safety and efficacy data became available, and volunteering to host clinical trials. The strategy paid off: Pfizer-BioNTech, AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson are all on the hook to deliver millions of doses. Millions more are coming from Chinese maker Sinovac'

Chile's approach was Trumpian and effective. Canada can thank the Orange Gorilla in the apartment below, without him you'd have no vaccines at all.

This is your problem, he's finally woke up, this is what he should have been announcing a year ago. https://nationalpost.com/news/polit...vaccines-but-they-wont-arrive-until-late-2021

 

[Creekwood]

I think your assessment is lacking. Here's an example, Chile...they don't produce vaccines in house but have one of the most successful vaccination efforts in the world. This is what they did,
'Amid international competition for doses, vaccinating fast means securing supply. Chile hasn’t had to deal with some of the shortages that have delayed vaccine rollouts in other countries. It has secured enough doses to vaccinate its entire adult population of roughly 15 million — twice.

That’s because Chile hedged its bets by signing contracts with as many manufacturers as possible, often before safety and efficacy data became available, and volunteering to host clinical trials. The strategy paid off: Pfizer-BioNTech, AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson are all on the hook to deliver millions of doses. Millions more are coming from Chinese maker Sinovac'

Chile's approach was Trumpian and effective. Canada can thank the Orange Gorilla in the apartment below, without him you'd have no vaccines at all.

This is your problem, he's finally woke up, this is what he should have been announcing a year ago. https://nationalpost.com/news/polit...vaccines-but-they-wont-arrive-until-late-2021
View attachment 103412

I don’t disagree that Trudeau was late in committing but Chile did a all chips down bet. It’s funny you describe it as Trumpian though. With hindsight it worked out but it was a gamble.

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

Honest question,


Honest question, what if you just went to your boat to work on it? Could you be arrested? (Assuming it’s not behind a fence or something)

I'm indoor storage so the building is locked and not able to gain entry. If it were outside, I could go and if someone complained to the health people they could come and issue an $880 fine for "non compliance to a health order". Some areas of Ontario are experiencing police pulling over every car to ask for ID and reason for being outside the home - fine is issued if not out for approved reasons. I wouldn't pay the ticket, but fight it on the basis that the health order is trumped by our rights/freedom section 8. The courts seem to be dismissing many of these tickets once people show their willing to go to court to fight them. First the courts remand the appearance date multiple times, then they've dismissed them and pay any lawyers bills to date as a result. It's like they know they're going to lose if you have your day in court with a knowledgeable lawyer. Crazy...

 

[Strecker25]

I'm indoor storage so the building is locked and not able to gain entry. If it were outside, I could go and if someone complained to the health people they could come and issue an $880 fine for "non compliance to a health order". Some areas of Ontario are experiencing police pulling over every car to ask for ID and reason for being outside the home - fine is issued if not out for approved reasons. I wouldn't pay the ticket, but fight it on the basis that the health order is trumped by our rights/freedom section 8. The courts seem to be dismissing many of these tickets once people show their willing to go to court to fight them. First the courts remand the appearance date multiple times, then they've dismissed them and pay any lawyers bills to date as a result. It's like they know they're going to lose if you have your day in court with a knowledgeable lawyer. Crazy...

good lord, crazy is right. I’m all about public health and stopping whatever this virus really is but that is pretty extreme...

 

[Timeflys]

Bajturner....hi...we used to be at your marina a few years ago, still on the mailing list...we are now just above the bridge in Ivy Lea.

And I don’t believe in lockdowns are totally effective when the province/state doesn’t have control over the entry of people to that state or province:

“Flights from Delhi continue to land in Canada despite India’s daily tally of COVID-19 infections surging to a record over the weekend — and amid the emergence of a new “double mutant” variant in the country. A federal government website that lists flights where someone has been confirmed to have been infected with COVID-19 shows that from April 4 to April 16, there were 120 flights with a COVID-positive passenger or passengers. Of those flights, 27 were from Delhi.”

Another example:

“The Public Health Agency of Canada has dropped their recommendation for additional screening measures applied to travellers arriving from Brazil, as a variant linked to that country spreads rapidly through Canada.”

 

[Iprof]

My dad has had both shots and to go and see my stepmom he has to have a Covid-19 test a requirement of the home she has dementia. The first week in April he tested positive for the UK variant. He's almost 90, he had no symptoms other than he lost his sense of smell. They tested him 10 days after his positive test and it came back negative. Now the unfortunate part 3 people that he came in contact with in 2 different stores have tested positive for it the UK variant. No idea if they infected anyone else.
There doesn't seem to be an end to this.

 

[bajturner]

In other words, lockdowns don't really work. And the consequences will have long lasting effects.

Now if you want to tell me, maybe it's a good idea to reduce capacity at indoor sporting events, large group gatherings, or even restaurants, then have at it. If you want to tell met that wearing a proper mask, properly, ie; not constantly touching it, at the proper time (and not the cotton POS masks we use now) will help, no problem. But don't tell me it makes any sense to lock people in their homes and close outdoor locations, including marinas and boat yards which allow for distancing and other precautions. And don't tell me I have to wear a mask driving alone in my car or walking outside.

Now if you want to see the dumbest people ever, watch these clowns -- VACCINATED government officials, socially distanced, wearning masks, telling me "vaccinations work."

I don't think lockdowns are a magic solution, and I really do hate and resent them. Whether they work or not is not black and white, however, in my opinion. They seem to be effective at calming runaway cases, and this has been important at times. It's not easy to evaluate and compare all the indirect consequences of locking down...my belief is they are significant. More significant than COVID? Hard to know.

The best approach is to take care to avoid runaway situations. Canada was doing a decent job of this, even without vaccinations, and the Atlantic provinces still are (lots of reasons can be argued...population density, fewer international flights, etc.), and still the overall numbers aren't that bad comparatively. Perhaps we are just behind the curve, or perhaps the additional measures, including some lockdowns have helped the numbers. A few data points (if you believe the data...if not, well, I guess there's nothing to talk about on that front!):

It is getting bad in certain provinces, including Ontario. You guys down South are by no means out of the woods, especially if the vaccines lose ground on new variants. Again, tough to compare very different population distributions, and different countries attribute causes of deaths somewhat differently, so comparisons are rough.

I really like doctors Peter McCullough

and Richard Urso

from Texas. These guys make a lot of sense. Combine their approach with some sensible social behaviours, and lockdowns probably wouldn't be part of the discussion. That would be ideal.

So to me, the deaths are real, and lockdowns as a solution are due to total failure and a sign of a government that is out of ideas. That said, although brain-dead, they do seem to help moderate runaway cases of COVID specifically in the short term, but I doubt they help on their own long-term.

 

[bajturner]

Bajturner....hi...we used to be at your marina a few years ago, still on the mailing list...we are now just above the bridge in Ivy Lea.

And I don’t believe in lockdowns are totally effective when the province/state doesn’t have control over the entry of people to that state or province:

“Flights from Delhi continue to land in Canada despite India’s daily tally of COVID-19 infections surging to a record over the weekend — and amid the emergence of a new “double mutant” variant in the country. A federal government website that lists flights where someone has been confirmed to have been infected with COVID-19 shows that from April 4 to April 16, there were 120 flights with a COVID-positive passenger or passengers. Of those flights, 27 were from Delhi.”

Another example:

“The Public Health Agency of Canada has dropped their recommendation for additional screening measures applied to travellers arriving from Brazil, as a variant linked to that country spreads rapidly through Canada.”

Ah, cool. A good friend of mine (who wants to rise-up against our government due to the lockdowns!) knows the people that own Myer's Landing near there...new owners, I think.

On the flights...100% agree. I used these same two examples yesterday, actually, when I was arguing with someone that is a big lockdown believer. Totally ridiculous. Incompetent government.

 

[bajturner]

I don’t disagree that Trudeau was late in committing but Chile did a all chips down bet. It’s funny you describe it as Trumpian though. With hindsight it worked out but it was a gamble.

Trudeau totally screwed this up...amongst many other things.

 

[bajturner]

Now if you want to tell me, maybe it's a good idea to reduce capacity at indoor sporting events, large group gatherings, or even restaurants, then have at it. If you want to tell met that wearing a proper mask, properly, ie; not constantly touching it, at the proper time (and not the cotton POS masks we use now) will help, no problem. But don't tell me it makes any sense to lock people in their homes and close outdoor locations, including marinas and boat yards which allow for distancing and other precautions. And don't tell me I have to wear a mask driving alone in my car or walking outside.

Completely agree.

 

[northern]

Perhaps the Canadian restrictions and a tax on yachts are designed to drive down prices so more young people can get into boating. Or is it buying opportunity for Americans to get a good deal on a lightly used boat.

 

[Woody]

Ah, cool. A good friend of mine (who wants to rise-up against our government due to the lockdowns!) knows the people that own Myer's Landing near there...new owners, I think.

On the flights...100% agree. I used these same two examples yesterday, actually, when I was arguing with someone that is a big lockdown believer. Totally ridiculous. Incompetent government.

The regular guy has reason to question. OMG, if you test positive you should quarantine so you don't spread the disease but in the US they're dispersing positive illegal aliens into the country. At the same time the public is expected to follow strict CDC guidelines.

 

[bajturner]

This is briliant: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-north-dakota-vaccine-essential-workers-1.5994519

Our Prime Minister should be ashamed.