So, I was thinking about this Healthcare debate

V

VTSeaRay

Active Member
Feb 19, 2008
1,905
Northern Vermont / SW FL
Boat Info
2007 210 Select w/5.0L 260HP MPI Mercruiser Alpha 1
Engines
8 cyl 5.0 Merc mpi, w/alpha 1 with 19" prop, with the speedo hole on the leading edge just above it
and the Dem's push for it. One of the comments I've heard, is "it will wreck our economy if we don't manage it"

What, you mean, like the oil speculators are doing? Why aren't we after them with such fervor?

-VtSeaRay
 
IMO, Obama's aggessive agenda is based on "overload"- hoping that fear and this implied sense of incredible urgency will get everyone to follow like sheep. It's the same "we must act NOW and we don't have the luxury of time to debate this" argument that was behind the TARP funding. From what I've read, there's a whole BUNCH of cra* in the health reform bill- including the ever-present earmarks that have nothing to do with health care reform. He's hoping to scare Congess into rubber-stamping whatever he wants without actually reading it...

I was at a dinner party last weekend and one of my friends said he "couldn't afford" health insurance for him and his wife and son.

This is a guy who became a millionaire (maybe multi) as a mortgage broker, then retired with a bunch of investment properties and a significant investment portfolio. Now, I know things are tough (I'm a contractor...nuff said?)- but when you're driving around a couple of brand new Escalades, and spent an entire month vacation in the OBX over the summer, how can you say that?

I freak out when I write a check for $1,000.00 every month for my health insurance. But no matter how tight money has gotten, I never considered it an option to NOT have it.
I guess everyone defines "affordable" differently, but I'm still amazed every time I hear this from an upper middle-class individual. Priorities, I guess...
 
Your health care insurance is costing 10 X what my contributions to the "National Health Service" here..........Someones getting rich at your expense !!!
 
Obama and his followers have chosen to try and nationalize the health insurance industry because everyone "deserves" healthcare. Why not nationalize groceries or any other thing that they can dream we have a "right" to? Auto insurance? Drinking water? To me this is a simple constitutional violation....The government has no business getting into the healthcare industry. They will screw it up, it will cost more, and will be much more inefficient.
 
In the UK the NHS isn't perfect but it works. No one gets denied medical treatment because they can't afford it.The private health care business is a mine field of "get-out clauses", overpriced premiums and second rate care. and when it all goes wrong.......bundle the patient into an ambulance and take them to an NHS hospital to get the mess sorted out.
 
Knotty Buoy,

Your point about the quality of healthcare you are receiving versus our private system falls on deaf ears on 80% of the Americans polled who continue to be pleased with the service they receive.

Also, 100 bucks per month does not provide adequate healthcare for a family. So, either you are getting rich (in the healthcare sense) at someone else's expense due to the cost being shifted to others, or the care is lousy. Possibly both.

Our healthcare system is expensive for a number of reasons, some that can be helped. However, one of the main reasons is it is exceptional. We are the epicenter of advancements in procedures and pharmacology because of the profits that can be made here. Incidentally, if we do go the socialized route, medical care in the first world will not continue to advance at the current rate, because even the European biotech, pharma, and other medical science institutions make the bulk of their money here. If the rest of you would adopt private systems like us, medicine would advance even faster... and probably cost less.

But the larger issue is this county's founding (and the roots to its success) is based on freedom. That's not some cliche. It is the truth. It is the fundemental characteristic that allowed one nation to suddenly advance light years faster than all others in just about every category of success. That nation's new course was so profound that the entire world is more free 200 years later as a result. Freedom leads to great things.

Most Americans, including myself, are appalled at the idea of being compelled to pay for and be required to get care from a government healthcare system.

I heard a quote once that went something like, "Those that would trade freedom for security deserve neither." I'll take freedom.
 
Here's an example from earlier in my life that illustrates why this whole argument is bogus. About 15 years ago, while I was in fine health with no obvious problems, I carried a catastrophic health plan which covered all major medical expenses 80/20. They paid 80%, I paid 20%. I had something happen that put me in the hospital for 10 days. When all was said and done, I ended up owing the hospital about $3000. When I received the bill in the mail, I called the hospital and told them that I did not have the money (I did, but I didn't want to spend it out of my savings) and would like to start a payment plan. The lady asked what I could afford to pay on a monthly basis. I told her that I could only do $25 a month. She said fine, and I started getting a bill from the hospital for $25 every month. I ended up paying them off in less than 2 years, but it was a nice to know that I was only on the hook for $25 bucks if I wanted to go on vacation or something. The hospital actually sold my debt to a bank, who set up the account and the collection arrangements.

The nuts and bolts of the US health care system are top notch. I am fortunate that I have access to some of the best physicians and facilities in the world at Johns Hopkins. I go there for everything and I am very happy with my health care.

Obama claims that the problem is a financial one for those "millions of Americans" that shouldn't have to worry about incurring large amounts of debt just because they get sick. The man and his minions are socialists. They see this as nothing more than an opportunity to get 20% of the US economy out of the private sector and into government control. Otherwise, they would leave everything else alone and deal with how we can assist people in paying off their debts without giving them the money. The "solution" to this "crisis" is to provide a mechanism by which people without health insurance who receive care and end up with large bills can set up their payment plan. That mechanism should also include enforcement to ensure that people pay off their debts.

No one really gets denied for health coverage in the US anyway. There are free clinics in just about every county.
 
Knotty Buoy said:
Someones getting rich at your expense !!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, they are called "ambulance chasers" (laywers). That is why tort reform should be a top priority. Obama was a lawyer, Clinton was a lawyer. Both claimed to want to "fix" healthcare. Neither one has or will propose any serious form of tort reform. :smt021
 
"Also, 100 bucks per month does not provide adequate healthcare for a family. So, either you are getting rich (in the healthcare sense) at someone else's expense due to the cost being shifted to others, or the care is lousy. Possibly both."

Ok 100 bucks is an exageration probably realistically about 300$ a month.
My wife was diagnosed with cancer at 32 yrs of age and fought it for ten years before she died. No cost aspect of her care was ever questioned and I am aware from extensive research on the internet that she wouldn't have been any more succesfully treated anywhere else in the world. My point is that had I been reliant on private health care they WOULD have found a way out of paying for her treatment and my familly would have been left with a horrendos debt. Both systems private and national operate in parallel here but the second rate treatment is undoubtedly with the private sector.
 
Knotty Buoy,

There have been quite a few independent studies of healthcare systems. Which ones are you reading that show the private sector being second to public.

Even the hard lefties in the states are trying to sell a geovernment healthcare plan based on the cost to the public. They don't even attempt an argument of superior care.
 
Private health care will help you skip the que for getting your bunions treated or even a hip op. But if the sevice was that good they wouldn't have to transfer patients to NHS hospitals every time there was a problem (and they do). This is no doubt an issue of scale where the private sector does not have the resource to provide the required service but the reason for that reduced scale is that, in general, people here trust the NHS and see little reason to subscribe to another high cost service. I would not suggest for one minute that it is without fault but $1,000 a month, I would imagine, is more than a lot of people could afford? That would be around 25% of my "take home" and my salary is well above the national average.
This isn't my fight, we already have what you're being threatened with, but I doubt if you would find 1% of the population here that would advocate scrapping it.
 
Dude... I think people in the United States "escaped" from your country... and now you lecture how great it is back there? Your taxes over there are repulsive.... (you do have good beer though).

What's your tax rate there? How about that VAT? and you come here and lecture us on how $1000/month is more than what you pay? How about if you could keep ALL your money you made? What a freekin' joke. Your government keeps most of your paycheck already... We DON'T WANT to be like you.
 
The guy obviously hasn't seen the whole "tea party" movement here... Wasn't that started because the dorks in England were taxing the colonies too much? I think it was... we kicked their ass and sent them home... told them to shove their taxes (and health care) where the sun don't shine.

(I live right by Yorktown where your Cornwallis tax-and-spend liberal SURRENDERED!)
 
I think the reason why you have such great Scotch is because it helps ease the pain of the taxes.
 
This is plainly a sensitive issue for you. Our government are indeed a parcel of arrogant, thieving, cheeting liars and the tax that we pay is outragous more especially when you see some of the ridiculous things that it's spent on.
However news reports of the aftermath of the flood in Alabama showed people being treated on fold up beds in sports stadiums, not because there were no hospital beds available but because they had no health insurance. If that really is the best that the richest country in the word can do for the less fortunate of their own, then perhaps, amidst the constitutional retoric, you might try to remember the Christian values your country was built on.
 
Knotty Buoy said:
However news reports of the aftermath of the flood in Alabama showed people being treated on fold up beds in sports stadiums, not because there were no hospital beds available but because they had no health insurance.
Click to expand...

Were did you read this?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,238
Messages
1,429,060
Members
61,119
Latest member
KenBoat
Back
Top