Survey - what are the rules ?

[Blueone]

Now the crappy part, the batteries were dead and he only replaced three of the four to complete the sale. He stated the fourth tested good

When I bought my current boat. During survey the stbd batteries seemed weak. The broker said no problem I will put new ones in for you. I thought okay that was easy

The replacement batteries had to have been outsourced by China they were so bad…. They lasted exactly a year…. I ended up replacing them with real batteries …. So I have learned to not sweat the small stuff you’re going to deal with it anyway

 

[techmitch]

So next question….. if a fan belt or engine hose looks like it may break because the engine surveyor said so or the boat surveyor said the sanitation hoses should be changed…. They are not broke but they could break by expert opinion.

who’s responsible?

Do you see what I mean?…. It’s very subjective

At this point, I'm thinking the buyer, some how knows you set the hook on another boat and is trying your patience.

 

[Blueone]

At this point, I'm thinking the buyer, some how knows you set the hook on another boat and is trying your patience.

No no it’s just an example…. Someone said if it’s broke it should be fixed

But what if some surveyor says it could break…. It has signs it may break?

 

[Golfman25]

So next question….. if a fan belt or engine hose looks like it may break because the engine surveyor said so or the boat surveyor said the sanitation hoses should be changed…. They are not broke but they could break by expert opinion.

who’s responsible?

Do you see what I mean?…. It’s very subjective

So it isn't that "subjective." Sure they should be changed, but that is on the buyer. In other words, surveyor gives him a punch list to make his new boat ship shape. It's not up to you.

When I was buying my last boat, I had one under contract. Surveyor came along and created a long list of items. Some I knew -- canvas needed replacement, some stains on the carpet, missing outside vent cap. Some I didn't know -- moisture in the swim platform, non-working bilge pumps, and props that needed to be reworked. Broker was clear, seller didn't want to budge. I went home, added up all the repairs, called the broker and said I'll eat the small stuff. My hangup was the swim platform and the props. I figured I could handle the swim platform DIY over the winter, so I wanted a credit for the props (or seller could fix them). They offered $75 ea. I laughed and went on my way. Told the broker we were way too far away. My prop place was closer to $500-600 ea. to weld, repair, and scan/balance. Plus a couple hundred to have the marina remove and install. Bottom line, by the time I fixed everything, the "deal" I thought I was getting was no deal at all.

 

[Golfman25]

No no it’s just an example…. Someone said if it’s broke it should be fixed

But what if some surveyor says it could break…. It has signs it may break?

Everything eventually breaks -- Welcome to boating. Most surveyors I have worked with will say something like -- XYZ is at end of expected life, monitor and/or replace.

 

[Woody]

At this point, I'm thinking the buyer, some how knows you set the hook on another boat and is trying your patience.

Blueone told the broker...this is what I gotta end up with $$$, anything over that is yours.

Now the broker doesn't want to lower the price to appease the buyer because it'd be coming out of his pocket. So he's trying to pass everything down to Blueone. Blueone won't hit his number but the broker maintains his.

In fairness if the surveyor found something that I wasn't aware of...maybe a hose, that if I'd have noticed it I would have gotten a new one ordered...ya' I'd fix it.

 

[LTD.330]

So next question….. if a fan belt or engine hose looks like it may break because the engine surveyor said so or the boat surveyor said the sanitation hoses should be changed…. They are not broke but they could break by expert opinion.

who’s responsible?

Do you see what I mean?…. It’s very subjective

Sanitation lines? Surveyors saying that shit *could* happen is up there with "If my Aunt had a Dick, she would be my Uncle".

 

[highslice]

It has signs it may break?

I don't have experience with brokers, but everything on my boat "has signs it may break" even when it's brand new.

 

[Shaps]

So next question….. if a fan belt or engine hose looks like it may break because the engine surveyor said so or the boat surveyor said the sanitation hoses should be changed…. They are not broke but they could break by expert opinion.

who’s responsible?

Do you see what I mean?…. It’s very subjective

I consider this a total negotiable point.
You can either dig in your heels and say, the hoses dont leak, the systems are functional, my price is my price. And in general, that would be my position.
If you choose to go the other way, it would, in my mind, be a partial offset.
In the end the boat is X years old and everything works. After that's it's up to the prospective buyer to invest to make it the way they want.

 

[Creekwood]

It’s sounds like the broker took the pricing risk above your price you needed. So if he priced it high and sold it at that price, or near it, he should have some meat on the bone to fund some of those minor items. You have a non conventional arrangement with the broker so I think he should bear the cost to seal the deal.

But in the end it depends what your broker contract says.

 

[Stray Current]

Sanitation lines? Surveyors saying that shit *could* happen is up there with "If my Aunt had a Dick, she would be my Uncle".

This saying just doesn’t carry the weight it used to

 

[Jus Cruisin]

I had a surveyor in the Sandusky area say the sanitation hoses showed cracking with no smell. His name was Monak or something like that. I had enough common sense to know I was buying an older boat and it could be an issue at some point but not right now. Two plus years later it's still showing some cracking and working fine.

By the way, I'm going to go through what you are on the 30th. I'm hoping this surveyor doesn't put the fear of god in the buyers pointing out maintenence things that might occur. I've found a replacement boat that I can't afford any weird hangups on my survey or I stand to lose it.

 

[ttmott]

On the Survey there are three categories in Findings and Recommendations - Safety Deficiencies, Other Deficiencies Needing Attention, and Surveyor's Notes and Cosmetic Items.
The first is usually on the owner the second is negotiable and third typically the buyer's.
Sanitary hoses past their useful life with significant cracking showing for example would be in the second category and a negotiable item. Hydraulic hoses critical for steering past their useful life on the other hand may be the first category.

Now if the boat was listed as "where is, as is" then it's buyer beware and the survey is informative to the buyer only. The broker/salesman must disclose the conditions. Now in good faith the seller may take on certain things to get the boat sold but that's another thing.

Lately, in the buyer's interest insurance just can't be obtained if there are findings in the first two categories. It used to be the buyer had 30 days to correct deficiencies but it appears it is a shut door these days so the buyer may need to buy a boat with no Cat A or B findings - that is where an owner/broker steps in and helps to get the boat moved.

Now on my current boat the broker stood up a portion of their commission to correct a finding that put the sale at risk when the owner got hard headed about it.

 

[copb8tx]

I like @ttmott's concise description above and it could help form your counter-argument.

That said, it's all about who blinks first. When I sold my boat it was a hot market. I made it clear prior to the survey that the only thing I'd consider covering were any unknown major item that the survey uncovered, anything else was to be expected on a used 16 year old boat. You, of course, have a lot more riding on this with the other boat in the wings.

I'd push back to your broker and offer a a few thousand towards any repairs to show some good faith, but anything else the broker can either cover or negotiate away. He doesn't want to lose the sale anymore than you do.

 

[Jaybeaux]

So next question….. if a fan belt or engine hose looks like it may break because the engine surveyor said so or the boat surveyor said the sanitation hoses should be changed…. They are not broke but they could break by expert opinion.

who’s responsible?

Do you see what I mean?…. It’s very subjective

My experience when I bought the 48.....Everything that the surveyor identified, I put on a list. My Marina, who was also the broker, estimated the cost to fix each item. The Marina then "gave" me $X,XXX to fix/repair anything that I wanted whether it was on the list or not. The budget they gave me was no where near the itemized total of items identified. As the buyer, then I got to pick and choose what I wanted repaired. It worked for me.

Best of luck,

Jaybeaux

 

[Smashpjp]

Structural issues, mechanical issues, and for safety issues - The seller should be on the hook.

If everything else is functional, but the surveyor had to find something to call out and flag as future maintenance priority, that should be on the buyer...

Cosmetic and other items should be baked into the fact that your buying a used boat.

I did my survey, had compression tests (seller had a recent oil sample), and sea trial. Of course some minor things were found, and alot of minor things after the fact that I found were missed. But it was only a 4 hour survey. My seller wanted to downsize and moved to a racked boat at same marina. He is always there. First time or two that I found something and mentioned that was my current project or thing I was working on while hanging at marina, he got nervous. I just told him "Hey boat is a hole in the water you throw money into"

Now whenever I have a question or am curious when or if something was replaced, I pretty much have onsite encyclopedia of the last 10 years of maintenance at my marina handy.

Even to the point when he was downsizing and moved to a Condo in town, He called me to let me know he found a bunch of spare crap for the 340 while cleaning out the garage. I stopped over and he just gave it all to me.

Just establish your line and say "No" . There is power in the word.

 

[b_arrington]

My dad was a home inspector with his own business. He actually wrote reports in a narrative style vs. most others that do a check list thing. I read a lot of his reports, went on a lot of inspections with him, and listened to a lot of his client advice.

He would list the condition of things similar to this: Good condition, sound, fair condition, serviceable but not sound, poor condition. Examples: a walkway with some loose stones might be serviceable, but not sound. A walkway that's sinking might be poor condition.

Similarly, he'd rate the roof as where it appeared to be in it's useful life: First third, middle third, last third, end of life.

I think I'd take a similar approach to stuff on a boat. Mechanical/critical stuff that's in poor condition or serviceable but not sound should be taken care of by the owner, or negotiated in some way. Stuff that's older but sound doesn't qualify for replacement by the owner. Cosmetic stuff is just that: cosmetic. Condition and the fact is it's a used boat should weigh into the price asked.

One thing that has stuck in my mind for years is the idea of a buyer trying to get a new roof when dad's inspection showed it was bad. They would often try to get dad to agree the seller should drop the home price by the cost of a new roof. He would ALWAYS tell them "you're buying a used home. You don't deserve a new roof; you deserve a roof that's serviceable. If you get half the cost you're coming out just fine."

Same thing for used boat. A buyer doesn't deserve NEW batteries. They deserve ones that will reliably start the boat. But they do deserve houses and belts that are in sound, operable condition that won't leave them stranded.

 

[Blueone]

. But they do deserve houses and belts that are in sound, operable condition that won't leave them stranded.

Hang on a second you are contradicting yourself….. you say you don’t deserve a new roof that is dried out and cracked but you deserve a new hose because it’s dried out and cracked ?

 

[RBB]

I am in the middle of selling the 44db. The buyer showed up with a guy self training to be a surveyor, it was a joke. They made offer and I said no thanks. Currently have another guys deposite and we’ll see since the Ohio River has been a mess the past few weeks.
This guy wants me to take it Cincinnati for survey, told him fine fund the boat. If not get surveyor here for n water survey and I will fix anything on the bottom that needs fixed.
We pull her every year and bottom good.
Cincinnati is 120 miles from our Marina.

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

This is all fine and good, but sometimes a boat on the market is priced based on what it represents. For example, lets say a boat that is typically $70-75G is listed at a low $50G but your inspection finds $20G of issues. Are you going to offer $30G citing all the issues and think that as a fair offer?