Thank God for my CSR friend

jrcinnh said:
Glad to see no one got hurt.

Where you rafted with AlexF?
Did you stay rafted?
Do you think being in a raft helped or hurt your situation?

No second guessing intended, just trying to learn.
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Yes, we were rafted with AlexF... We hurt him by my anchor not helping much... We helped him by being between him and the sailboat... The weather changed so fast we had no option other than stay together, and waiting out the storm... If we were separated, Alex may have tried to go out in inlet to save his friend, which in hindsight would not have been a good idea... So, overall I was glad I was rafted to him, and I hope he feels the same...
 
That’s an harrowing experience...but you are a better boater now.
I was once in the position of the sailboat you hit. A 45’ Pershing began to drag anchor until it hit me broadside. The owner was not onboard and his guests had no idea how to handle a boat... as we were side to side we tied up a couple of lines hoping my anchor could hold two boats... the wind was blowing at some 20 kts... soon my anchor also started to drag also!
I was recharging the batteries with the generator and I had not enough power to start the Cats... the coast was approaching...I was scared but somehow calm... I also thought of launching the tender to use it as a big fender as I called the coast guard that did show up in time!
When we were some 300 feet from the rocks I finally managed to crank my engines...we were safe!
After some 15 min there came the owner of the Pershing on his tender... he just went shopping on land!!!:smt021
Lessons learned: length of chain is never enough and be careful on your batteries when anchored out...
 
rcknecht said:
Yes, we were rafted with AlexF... We hurt him by my anchor not helping much... We helped him by being between him and the sailboat... The weather changed so fast we had no option other than stay together, and waiting out the storm... If we were separated, Alex may have tried to go out in inlet to save his friend, which in hindsight would not have been a good idea... So, overall I was glad I was rafted to him, and I hope he feels the same...
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I'm not a big expert on anchoring during storms as people who travel thousands of miles and do it all the time. But, I've been in this situation few times in a raft and those times I had only positive experience. In some respect it might be easier to stay solo, but as with anything there're pros and cons. I'm a team player, so IMO team work is the best. As we can learn from this experience it worked to our advantage. So, even besides being able to ovecome technical issues with one boat we had very good moral support for each other.

IMO, if you have two anchors out with proper scope, then you're safe. If you ask what happens when the wind is shifting? Last time we rafted with Danianna in the strong wind we had anchors dropped at the same time. So, when the wind shifted we turned as one anchor would reset with the wind. We had not crossed the anchors. Is it possible to cross them? Sure, but it's not a problem as long as you recover properly. We've crossed anchors sever times being in the raft of 10 boats. We managed just fine to get them loose when it was time to go home.
 
WOW, what a trip, thankfully no one was injured and your vessel only sustained minor damage, considering what could have happened. Based on the pictures you posted, the weather looks awful. Seems like this is a good lesson for all of us, I know I forget sometimes. We can never depend on Mother Nature to do what we expect. R
 
Larry&Leisa said:
Glad everyone is safe! Hope you both had your pfd's on under those rain jackets...
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No we didn't. Although, I agree it would be proper to have them on, but I saw no danger in that situation. We were in sheltered harbor with just hundreds of feet away from shore in either direction (west or east). However, my PDFs are in reach within seconds under my captain sit. As I recall, kids did have their PDFs on as soon as the storm approached.
 
It's always a question in my mind when a quick storm comes in, do you stay in the raft or pull out. Even if alone do you stay at anchor or get underway. Is the anchor set well enough, is the water deep enough, will someone drag into me, so many variables. Thanks for the story.
 
Alex/Rod,

Thanks for the details - what a great job you did. And here I was complaining about driving the NJ roads! Little did I know what you guys were going through.
 
jrcinnh said:
It's always a question in my mind when a quick storm comes in, do you stay in the raft or pull out. Even if alone do you stay at anchor or get underway. Is the anchor set well enough, is the water deep enough, will someone drag into me, so many variables. Thanks for the story.
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I have a simple answer for you in the form of few questions that you can ask yourself:
1- if you might have trouble holding ground while anchored in a sheltered water (harbor, cove, etc.) how easy do you think it would be to navigate underway?
2- so you have strong engines and you made it to the slip, how easy do you think is to get it to the slip when the wind is blowing like crazy?

I did that ones and we just made it, but docking is something I'll never forget. The wind shifted 180 degrees at 35mph while I was docking. I don't have bow thruster, so you can imagine the efforts. It took me 3 approaches and putting all my skills to work.

I'm sure you get the picture. So, IMO staying in sheltered water is much safer approach. But, you have to be alert and be prepared to react in case if you drag or someone drags in to you. Extra fenders, boat hook will help to have in ready state.

So, to summarize, if you can bit the storm in time, go for it. If not, seek shelter and anchor accordingly.

Just my .02c.
 
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Once again, Alex and Rod, WOW! That which does not kill you makes you a better captain. In this instance, working together, the situation was kept in hand. Rod you were rattled not by the storm but by the near miss with Kelly. Thankfully, Alex was there to take up the slack.

This does bring up an intersting topic - break the raft or stay together? In this case, there was no time to break - but given more time, what is the best course of action? Can't say for sure. But I do agree with Alex - if you are not in a sheltered area, SEEK SHELTER - remember the old saying "Any port in a storm." If you are in a sheltered anchorage, stay put - don't try to outrun something like this - you can't. Usually, since they approach so quickly, they will zoom by just as quickly so you only need to deal with the conditions for a short while.

I think the important thing is to keep the nose of the boat into the wind. If that's with an anchor, so be it. Another thing we should all be carrying is a sea anchor - it won't hold your position but it'll hold your nose into the wind as it drags. This wouldn't apply in the situation these guys were in but I've often thought about losing power in the ocean, where it's too deep or the seas are too heavy to anchor.
 
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Quite a tale! I'm glad to hear it ended well.

To Ron's question...
rondds said:
This does bring up an intersting topic - break the raft or stay together? In this case, there was no time to break - but given more time, what is the best course of action? Can't say for sure.
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I am not second guessing this situation, but for the general question I say break up the raft if you can, as long as everyone can have enough room to allow for scope and swing and has enough time to get a hook back down before the blow. A raft can be a dangerous place to be in a storm.

Again, not second-guessing this situation, sometimes these things sneak up on you!
 
WOW !! what a scary story. :wow:.
Alex, The boating world needs more people like you !!. :thumbsup: . :thumbsup: . :thumbsup:


YOU always put on your PFD's when a nasty storm is coming at you !!!. :smt001

 
Alex I agree about not running for the dock, unless you are absolutely sure you can get in and tied up before it hits. Not fun to dock in a storm.

But I've wondered about the merits of staying anchored versus just riding it out under way. Not trying to go anywhere, just staying in deep water using the engines to keep you out of trouble.

I'm talking about a pop-up thunderstorm, that will be over in well less than an hour, obviously you don't want to sit there for hours.
 
Glad you all made it though that storm OK.

I believe that the book answers are:

Break the raft. Rafted boats have a greater chance of damaging each other.

Any port in a storm is a good saying, but the inlet better be navigable in a storm. I can not think of any inlet on the NJ coast that I would run in that type of weather. Better to stay off-shore and wait it out. This is especially true in a vessel with limited power and ability to maneuver, such as a sailboat. Ideally, you want to remain more or less in the same place. Navigation will be hazardous. Visibility will be minimal and even a decent radar set operated manually by someone with practice won't burn though very heavy rain without also losing the ability to discriminate markers and maybe even other vessels. However, pointing the bow to the wind and maintaining relative position visually and with the chartplotter is not excessively difficult.

If you're anchored, you better be sure that your anchor is secure. Ensure that you have a good enough holding bottom, a large enough anchor, and enough rode to provide sufficient scope. The charts in most areas of NJ show mud and soft -- not good holding bottoms. I'd rather rely on my engines that a soft bottom. If the chart doesn't say hard, pull in the anchor before the storm hits. If the anchor drags while you are anchored in a good area, or in the middle of a storm, pulling the anchor in probably isn't a good idea. Letting out more scope is a good idea, but you need to let it out smoothly. You should also use the engines to slow your dragging so that the anchor gets a chance to stop skidding along the bottom and to dig in. Let out more scope and slowly back down, when you have increased scope to an amount deemed sufficient, gradually reduce power to set the anchor and allow it to bury itself. Don't suddenly tie off the rode and stop the engines. It'll pull out and you have to start again.

Finally, check the forecasts! They were predicting severe thunderstorms and strong winds since early Saturday. Because of that, I was sure to leave early enough so that Just Ducky would be tied in her slip by early afternoon. Sometimes these storms aren't avoidable. I've been out in them. Usually you have about 10 minutes to prepare. That means you have to know what needs to be done and be able to do it immediately because you will not have time to think.

It's a darned shame that they don't train boat captains in emergency procedures the way they train pilots. When a problem occurs in the air, if the pilot isn't prepared, he can get "behind the airplane." His slow decision making allows a series of small errors to compound into something catastrophic, but if he was able to quickly and decisively handle each as they occurred, or when the first occurred, he would have broken the chain and avoided the end disaster. I'm sure Carter can state this better than I, but knowing what to do before you encounter problems makes you a better captain.

Best regards,
Frank
 
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I'm glad you guys worked it out and came out of the storm better captains.

We were already home and snugged up when the storm hit.....and man did that storm hit!!!!!!! I think every leaf and branch in Ocean County ended up in my pool......
 
Amazing story, glad everyone is safe, and you shared the story so it may help someone else another day! -- Wesley
 
That's a tough call. I've ridden storms out on the engines and i've ridden them out at anchor. both suck!!! but my preferred method is engines in open water... because that's where I have the most experience.
 
I appreciate all the good ideas and suggestions about what to do next time... It is easy to be the Monday morning quarterback or quote what the "book" says, but we did not have many options.

We could have left earlier, not stopped, but our friend was in the ocean, and we were determined to make sure he was safe... If something had happened to Paul and Olga we both would have been out that inlet searching for him when the storm passed.

My anchor windlass was jammed with gordian knot, the breaker tripped and broken... Even with 100' of chain and 20' of rope my anchor was not holding... We both had our engines running. If we would have split up I would have been not be able to retrieve my anchor, and would have been forced to cut my rode... If we were able to pull up the anchors, there was no space wide an deep enough to ensure safe maneuverability, remember the Barnegat has an average depth of 3'... All the charter fishing boat were headed through the inlet, to port, in the midst of the storm... They know what to do, and for them it was get out of the Ocean and back to port... The people on those boat were cheering as if they just had the ride of their lives.

In hindsight, I think we should have listened to my wife's suggestion of moving our anchoring spot further in, with a twist... I would have headed over to the HBH marina and grabbed a "T' dock slip and tied up until the storm passed... I can say now, that I am glad for my friend, and now we have a story, a little more experience, a closer friendship, and I am putting my spare Danforth anchor on my boat tomorrow...
 
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