The Official 450 Express Bridge Owners Club

[SR450EB Captain]

That's awesome. Is reception wireless internet or coax from the boat to dock?

Running on Roku and a ATT Hotspot, chose Roku so I can stream through my boat sound system via bluetooth.

 

[SR450EB Captain]

Tony,
Can you share a picture of the mount you used both on the TV and on the rail? I know on my boat, there is an outlet on the port side in the cockpit cabinet. Is there one on the starboard side as well? If not, where did you run the power from to that location?

I modified the mount to route the 12volt wire through the stainless steel tube. I mounted a 12 receptacle inside the starboard side rear locker w/inline fuse. Ran shielded wire over from the receptacle over to the main battery buss on the house battery.

 

[Shoyrtt]

I modified the mount to route the 12volt wire through the stainless steel tube. I mounted a 12 receptacle inside the starboard side rear locker w/inline fuse. Ran shielded wire over from the receptacle over to the main battery buss on the house battery.

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Thank you Tony!
We are back on the hook for the weekend here at home. Next weekend we will be in the BVI.

 

[SR450EB Captain]

Thank you Tony!
We are back on the hook for the weekend here at home. Next weekend we will be in the BVI.
View attachment 114669

Waaaaaaait for me!

 

[Forrestkk]

Sorry, was not ignoring your question. Was down in Austin TX for a car race over the weekend so not paying attention to much other than racing and partying. lol Worn out now. Getting too old but the brain still thinks like a kid!

I have received 4 offers to this point. Still working with a couple of them.

No worries, and I have that same issue with my body/mind not quite understanding intent vs. capability!

Cool on the offers, and amazing how fast they came in...I know when we bought ours we would call and the boat would be on contract within hours of the listing.

 

[Forrestkk]

Got estimate for fuel gauge accuracy remedy. There are uncertainties, not cheap, and have to fill from an empty tank to program the adapter. Attached estimate in pdf. Not sure I'll proceed yet.

That is less than I would have expected, but still more than a boat buck, and ironically about one full fill-up!

My tanks definitely have the inboard sides that slope inboard from top to bottom.

I think your guages may have a bit more error than mine. I have 100ish gallons total (50 per tank) on empty and take on 300 total. Sounds like you have 200 on empty based on your weight of 1,400 lbs...that is a bit much. My personal opinion is that all of the tiny analog guages don't have the necessary fidelity. On aircraft, they put "peanut" guages on the dial face that graduate between hash marks in guages tbat are forced to be small. Apparently, older boats rely on alarms.

On my list is to go with these (but, $3k can be better spent on other projects at the moment) - https://www.sbmar.com/product/smx-digitalview-digital-display/

 

[ttmott]

That is less than I would have expected, but still more than a boat buck, and ironically about one full fill-up!

My tanks definitely have the inboard sides that slope inboard from top to bottom.

I think your guages may have a bit more error than mine. I have 100ish gallons total (50 per tank) on empty and take on 300 total. Sounds like you have 200 on empty based on your weight of 1,400 lbs...that is a bit much. My personal opinion is that all of the tiny analog guages don't have the necessary fidelity. On aircraft, they put "peanut" guages on the dial face that graduate between hash marks in guages tbat are forced to be small. Apparently, older boats rely on alarms.

On my list is to go with these (but, $3k can be better spent on other projects at the moment) - https://www.sbmar.com/product/smx-digitalview-digital-display/

I think you will be disappointed in Seaboard SMX expecting it to display fuel data. It will not display nor calculate fuel as on our boats the fuel is not part of the engine's SAE J1939 data stream which the SMX interfaces with.
Fuel senders (ultrasonic, mechanical, reed, etc) only sense the fuel level and not quantity. So to view any analog gauge there is no fuel quantity displayed only a level of fuel in a tank. Ever seen a fuel gauge displaying gallons?
To the Maretron TLM-100 ultrasonic senders - When setting up these senders with the Maretron displays or software the size and shape of the fuel tank is programmed into the TLM sender and thus these senders actually output the NMEA 2000 PGNs for total fuel and fuel remaining. These senders will not, however, interface with standard analog resistive gauges. You would have to have a MFD Chartplotter with NMEA 2000 capability or Maretron DSM to reveal your actual fuel remaining.
With all of that said as an addendum- Standard mechanical and reed senders that are resistive can be used to calculate fuel remaining however where that is done and viewed is on a device like Vessel View that you must set up for what a tank level is in gallons or liters. What I have found out is the Vessel View and similar devices cannot deal with unusual shaped tanks and the quantity data with respect to level needs to be programmed in level increments.

 

[Forrestkk]

I think you will be disappointed in Seaboard SMX expecting it to display fuel data. It will not display nor calculate fuel as on our boats the fuel is not part of the engine's SAE J1939 data stream which the SMX interfaces with.
Fuel senders (ultrasonic, mechanical, reed, etc) only sense the fuel level and not quantity. So to view any analog gauge there is no fuel quantity displayed only a level of fuel in a tank. Ever seen a fuel gauge displaying gallons?
To the Maretron TLM-100 ultrasonic senders - When setting up these senders with the Maretron displays or software the size and shape of the fuel tank is programmed into the TLM sender and thus these senders actually output the NMEA 2000 PGNs for total fuel and fuel remaining. These senders will not, however, interface with standard analog resistive gauges. You would have to have a MFD Chartplotter with NMEA 2000 capability or Maretron DSM to reveal your actual fuel remaining.
With all of that said as an addendum- Standard mechanical and reed senders that are resistive can be used to calculate fuel remaining however where that is done and viewed is on a device like Vessel View that you must set up for what a tank level is in gallons or liters. What I have found out is the Vessel View and similar devices cannot deal with unusual shaped tanks and the quantity data with respect to level needs to be programmed in level increments.

@ttmott great info, thx!

My reasoning for the SMX is that they offer plug/play for my analog 6CTAs. Pretty sure I don't have J1939 on my engines so the ability to just plug it in would be nice, and I could retire all the analog stuff on the helm. I haven't asked them, but seems like you could add resistive fuel level to those displays and with a more granular display create a calibration card by just filling the tanks and annotating how many gallons are at graduation on the guage?

 

[Shoyrtt]

I saw this post on Facebook. The owner, Thomas Rieck, is a friend of Tony's (SR450EB Captain) and lives in Ormond Beach, FL. Her name was "Southern Lady." Very sad to see a 450 lost.

 

[Forrestkk]

I saw this post on Facebook. The owner, Thomas Rieck, is a friend of Tony's (SR450EB Captain) and lives in Ormond Beach, FL. Her name was "Southern Lady." Very sad to see a 450 lost.
View attachment 114773
View attachment 114774
View attachment 114775
View attachment 114776

...huge bummer.

 

[ttmott]

@ttmott great info, thx!

My reasoning for the SMX is that they offer plug/play for my analog 6CTAs. Pretty sure I don't have J1939 on my engines so the ability to just plug it in would be nice, and I could retire all the analog stuff on the helm. I haven't asked them, but seems like you could add resistive fuel level to those displays and with a more granular display create a calibration card by just filling the tanks and annotating how many gallons are at graduation on the guage?

You should talk to them; the SMX is only J1939 and nothing else. If your boat is not J1939 then it must be interfaced through the installation of new separate sensors or something like the Nolan analog to NMEA 2000 converters. If your CTA's are 100% mechanical then the SMX will not interface in any form. I did a writeup six or seven years ago on converting my Cat 3116's to digital; maybe good to review that....

 

[Forrestkk]

You should talk to them; the SMX is only J1939 and nothing else. If your boat is not J1939 then it must be interfaced through the installation of new separate sensors or something like the Nolan analog to NMEA 2000 converters. If your CTA's are 100% mechanical then the SMX will not interface in any form. I did a writeup six or seven years ago on converting my Cat 3116's to digital; maybe good to review that....

@ttmott

Yup, so there is the disconnect. SMX has built a system for 6BTAs and 6CTAs (which can do other mechanical engines) that do not have J1939. Two links below showing different models. As you mentioned, it offers a NMEA 2000 gateway for the mechanical engine model. Maybe they used your article as a reference!

J1939 model - https://www.sbmar.com/product/smx-seaview-j1939-digital-display-kit/

Mechanical engine model - https://www.sbmar.com/product/smx-digitalview-digital-display/

 

[ttmott]

@ttmott

Yup, so there is the disconnect. SMX has built a system for 6BTAs and 6CTAs (which can do other mechanical engines) that do not have J1939. Two links below showing different models. As you mentioned, it offers a NMEA 2000 gateway for the mechanical engine model. Maybe they used your article as a reference!

J1939 model - https://www.sbmar.com/product/smx-seaview-j1939-digital-display-kit/

Mechanical engine model - https://www.sbmar.com/product/smx-digitalview-digital-display/

Sheesh - I stand corrected; didn't know they had a product for the mechanical engines. Sorry about that.....
So, other than the pain to route the harness' it looks to be a great solution other than it doesn't appear to integrate fuel tank data nor calculate fuel quantity and remaining.... So, unless I missed something you are still lacking fuel data consequently, back to the Maretron system.....

 

[Forrestkk]

Sheesh - I stand corrected; didn't know they had a product for the mechanical engines. Sorry about that.....
So, other than the pain to route the harness' it looks to be a great solution other than it doesn't appear to integrate fuel tank data nor calculate fuel quantity and remaining.... So, unless I missed something you are still lacking fuel data consequently, back to the Maretron system.....

@ttmott, agree that it is lacking fuel quantity; however, they do say they can add custom stuff. Not sure how much the cost would be, I'll ask and see what they say and post it up. Their installations show analog fuel gauges (booo). I just can't believe it would be that hard to adapt as all the sensors, except tach/volt, are resistive gauges so it should just be another line of code and another input.

If they can't do fuel, that would be a bummer since the product is pretty good. Not quite as nice as Maretron, but I sure would love to have an "easier button." I would surely pay a few hundred extra to get the fuel integrated.

 

[ttmott]

I would probably move towards an Alba Combi Engine Monitor analog to NMEA 2000 unit with a couple of Maretron TLM 100's and Maretron DSM410. It would be more work setting up but I think the results would be more diverse, adaptable, and customizable for your application; and quite possibly less expensive for the total package including fuel integration. Then not only does all of the data display on the Maretron DSM but it is all available on any NMEA 2000 display / Chartplotter.
I'm trying to remember but @dtfeld and/or @SKybolt installed the Alba Combi.....

 

[Kenblacks]

hello all

I have been working a deal on a clean 2001 sear ray 450 eb 430 hp cummins mtrs with 750 hours for a few months
(previous owner died a few months ago is the reason it's being sold) we have been waiting on a rebuilt turbo to be installed. thats done now and I was told they took the boat out and she ran good a week go. I went down yesterday to start engines for myself. both mtr's were bellowing out white smoke with the smell of fuel in the air, I killed the mtrs after a couple of minutes. the mtrs felt rough and shook the boat at anything above an idle. temp was 70 degrees but it got down in the upper 40's the night before so engine room was probably lower than the 70 I was feeling top side. I have seen both mtrs running for a short period at warmer temps a month or so ago and did not see any smoke even on start up. MOST everything I read last night leads me to believe the air temp being cooler now is the cause of the white smoke issue. unburned fuel from intake air being cooler than what these mtrs are looking for. I am told that in 2001 430hp cummins are mechanical injection which is simpler to deal with than the later models mtrs. I am more than a little concerned about this amount of smoke and that it was still coming out after a couple of minutes. I know from what I have read that the newer electronic versions have way to heat up the intake air to cure this problem. I dont think myself , my very nice neighbors or my wife is going to be thrilled about the Odor or the smoke on our 1 sided almost enclosed boathouse with not much air flowing through there.
I got to admit the extra cost to maintain these mtr already had me concerned. the boat was mobed here 2-3 years ago from Houston spending most of its life near the coast but I have not seen the usual corrosion from salt the I expected to find. window frames , metal pieces ect. look good I do see some rust on mtr mounts for have not looked to closely as a a big guy and engine compartment is kinda tight for me to get around in.
I have over 30 years experience with big boats but all have been big block chevy mtrs until this one.

pleae help me out here with your opinions

thanks Ken In Dallas

 

[Forrestkk]

@Kenblacks

The 6CTA 430s have air intake heaters unless someone removed them. I don't use mine, and a lot of people remove them in warmer climates. My motors put out a small amount of white smoke start-up at 90 or 50 degrees and smell like diesel (was in the 50s here this weekend after a cold front), but they run smooth. I have no shaking at all, and they shouldn't run rough unless there are cylinders that are not firing. White smoke on mechanical diesels that are not using glow plugs or air intake heaters is normal until the engine is up to temperature (low combustion chamber temps). Until I stop idling and really get the engine up to op temp I see some white smoke. As soon as I load the engines the white smoke goes away. Of note, these engines don't have catalytic converters or diesel particulate filters, so even after they are up to temp and not smoking you will still smell some diesel exhaust if you are not moving, or going slow with a tailwind.

The words "bellowing" white smoke and shaking are concerning. If a cylinder isn't firing and you have a lot of white smoke and a vibration, it could be a bad injector(s) which sometimes clear up after the engine gets warmer. Injectors on these engines release fuel based on high-pressure fuel being sent from the pump to the injector which has to reach a cracking pressure which is set by internal springs inside the injector. If the injector has been damaged it will "crack" early and deliver fuel early and it will be less atomized. Injectors can be removed and "pop" checked by a diesel shop that which checks cracking pressure and spray pattern. It is not that expensive. The worse issue of a lot of white smoke at startup would be low compression on one or more cylinders stemming from a leaking valve seat, bent rod, or something else that is causing low compression during the compression stroke. It could also be a damaged fuel pump (unlikely with robust fuel filtration on these boats).

1. Have injectors pop checked (if there are bad injectors, replace them)
2. Leak down and compression tests (if you have low compression have to determine if it is valves or cylinders/rings)

Do you know when the fuel filters were changed last? Diesels run rough if they don't get enough fuel and it is odd that vibrations are increasing with RPM, normally if you are running rough they will smooth out a bit as RPMs increase (not advocating that you go push these engines up to higher RPMs until they are running right at idle). You can look at the vacuum gauges on the Racors and see if they are too high. The Racors have water blocking filters and will block water, but if there is too much water they will severely restrict fuel flow. Fuel filters are severely affected by dropping temperatures. This could be the easy fix here, especially if the boat has been sitting. Water will build up in the tanks due to condensation and settle in the bottom of the tank and then get sucked up and the Racors will separate the water, but they can only take so much of that before they become blocked.

 

[SR450EB Captain]

I purchased an addition TV Mount base/receiver so the same TV could be used in the cockpit or at the helm. Will also feed an HDMI and use as an additional monitor when I update my electronics. This is the location chose at the helm seems to work pretty well. I may have an extension made so I can lift it 8-10 inches when desired.

 

[Skybolt]

I would probably move towards an Alba Combi Engine Monitor analog to NMEA 2000 unit with a couple of Maretron TLM 100's and Maretron DSM410. It would be more work setting up but I think the results would be more diverse, adaptable, and customizable for your application; and quite possibly less expensive for the total package including fuel integration. Then not only does all of the data display on the Maretron DSM but it is all available on any NMEA 2000 display / Chartplotter.
I'm trying to remember but @dtfeld and/or @SKybolt installed the Alba Combi.....

@Forrestkk I did originally work with Alba-Combi, but had too many issues with getting that working as expected. I did go through most every system out there including my favorite the Chetco G2, but false promises with there programming software caused me to move on to the Actisense EMU-1. I talk about it here: http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/actisense-emu-1-engine-converter-analog-to-digital.101609/ very good system and also produces ECU engine alarms that can be used on any system.

The fuel monitoring is done with Maretron TLM100's. I also use DSM410's for total fuel remaining etc. The most expensive part is getting fuel flow rate's, IMO that is not worth perusing - that will cost more per engine then converting both engines over to N2K in total.

I had looked into the SMX, but found it to be not cost effective to move forward with that. At close to $2000 (just hardware) an engine when completed made no sense to me. Also one thing that is never a true statement with a boat is "Plug and Play" ... @Forrestkk good luck in your decisions.

 

[ttmott]

@Forrestkk I did originally work with Alba-Combi, but had too many issues with getting that working as expected. I did go through most every system out there including my favorite the Chetco G2, but false promises with there programming software caused me to move on to the Actisense EMU-1. I talk about it here: http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/actisense-emu-1-engine-converter-analog-to-digital.101609/ very good system and also produces ECU engine alarms that can be used on any system.

The fuel monitoring is done with Maretron TLM100's. I also use DSM410's for total fuel remaining etc. The most expensive part is getting fuel flow rate's, IMO that is not worth perusing - that will cost more per engine then converting both engines over to N2K in total.

I had looked into the SMX, but found it to be not cost effective to move forward with that. At close to $2000 (just hardware) an engine when completed made no sense to me. Also one thing that is never a true statement with a boat is "Plug and Play" ... @Forrestkk good luck in your decisions.

Let's not forget that the SMX takes care of linearizing the temperature senders for their display; that's a plus.... What I don't know if that linearization passes through to the NMEA 2000 network... I guess it must to be compliant with the PGN formats.