The quest to sleep three kids on a Sundancer - 2017 is the year

Stee6043

Stee6043

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2015
6,756
West Michigan
Boat Info
1997 Sundancer 400
Engines
7.4L Gassers
The quest to sleep three kids (easier) on a Sundancer - 2017 is the year

I've been toying with the idea of getting a larger DA but so far I'm letting my fiscally responsible side keep me grounded. I think I've got at least another year or two with my 340 before I'll want to make a change...with any luck.

So right now our biggest challenge is sleeping. We use our boat like a condo on the water. We are out nearly every weekend with our three kids under the age of 7. We swore last year was the LAST year for a pack-n-plan sitting in the middle of the aisle every night and during naps.

For the last month or so of last summer I experimented with mounting a Coleman cot across the top of the aft cabin "seat backs" to create a bunk. It worked well enough for storage that I've decided to make it a sleeping area this year. The only trick is that it needs to be finished well enough to look good.

So yesterday I picked up a pile of PVC I'll be using to frame the bunk. It'll be supported by the seat backs on either side and then one set of legs in the middle. Nothing permanent, no holes, nada. Two kids will sleep below facing fore/aft while the oldest will sleep on the new bunk facing across the boat.

I'll post some pictures as I go. It'll be fully installed and in use by April. All-in will be around $100 of which $60+/- was the cot. I'm excited to get this done for the coming summer. Two summers of screwing around with naps/nighttime with a pack n play is enough for this guy!

Until my youngest two get too tall to sleep fore/aft this should be a solid setup. Hoping for a great summer coming up!
 
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Interesting idea. Take some pics. We cram 6 of us on a 320. 2 aft, 1 on sofa, 1 on floor, and wife and I up front.
 
I think that's an ingenious idea... part of what makes it "fun" for the kids! We only have two kids (one of each), but when they would sleep lengthwise (the "normal" way... port to starboard) in the mid(aft)cabin (and the midcabin in my boat is smaller). I'm just mentioning that because it might give you more time to have two of them sleep in the midcabin before you have to change plans again.

Just out of curiosity, is there any reason you don't want to have one of them sleep in the salon area? Whether you have the sofa or the dinette setup, both convert to a bed.
 
Is PVC going to hold the weight? You know all three are going to want to roughhouse in there at sometime.
 
Good point on roughhousing - or even just "rambunctious" sleeping... I know my kids would move around A LOT when they were sleeping. As evidenced by the bruises on my back on those nights when one was having a bad dream and slept with us! You certainly wouldn't want the bunk sleeper to come crashing down on the other two during the night.

Another consideration... what is going to keep the PVC from bowing in the middle (horizontally towards each other, not vertically), or even... what keeps the twoPVC poles from sliding towards each other as the "weight" is placed in the cot. The four point of contact (PVC resting on set backs) would have to be secured such that they couldn't slide. The "bowing" issue is still a concern... possibly a transverse member or two of PVC between the two "rails"? But then that might be in the way of the sleeper, unless it is raised.
 
The sleeping cushions in Saint Max and I'm sure other 330's of that vintage are held up by 2x2's. I'd need to see some pix, but I'm sure a similar setup maybe with 2x4's on edge would work. It did in scout camp.
 
We slept on my old 300 a lot when our 2 kids were little. My daughter is 3 years older than my son and they had no problem sharing the forward berth while my wife and I slept in the aft cabin. Things changed when they got a little older and we stopped doing family overnights a several years ago. We thought about having my son ( an Eagle Scout) use the cockpit on that boat as a tent with the canvas up at night and a sleeping bag but it never came to that.
They'll be turning 17 and 20 this coming summer and we recently bought our 410. When they come with us my daughter will get the privacy of the aft cabin (which also has a fold down bunk) with it's separate head and pocket door and my son will sleep in the salon. He's sort of resigned to his sister pulling rank on him and doesn't mind.
We originally were looking at 03-04 380's which would have also fit the bill nicely but in our year long quest to find the perfect boat we decided that the diesels in the 410 were a better choice for us and the extra space in its aft cabin are a nice bonus.
 
With any luck I'll post photos next week. I'm hoping to take this Friday to head out to the boat, wax the hull and at least fit the bunk before I paint it.

I'm using 1-1/4" PVC for two reasons: Weight (easy to manage) and ability to paint to a quality finish (sans slivers, won't soak up moisture). My test fit last year was with lumber so I do have a pretty good idea of how it'll all go together.

I will be supporting the bunk in the center with a post that gently rests on the cushions. This will have the secondary function of separating the two kiddos sleeping underneath. My Coleman cot will be attached to the PVC (I removed the supports, only the bedding portion remains).

Based on what I had up late last year I'm confident this will support plenty of rough housing. The aft edge of the bunk will rest fully on the seat back of the existing seating along with both ends. I suspect I could even sleep up there.

We're trying to avoid (so far) using the sofa since our kids go to bed rather early. It's nice to be able to come back to the boat after hanging out with our dock neighbors and not disturb any kids sleeping. Our biggest gripe with the pack-n-play was the constant (perceived) setting up and taking down of sleeping quarters in the middle of the boat.

For at least this year and maybe next the hope is that we can maintain all three kids in one room (aft cabin), keep it picked up with minimal effort, do zero daily setup/take-down and enjoy the freedom to come and go post-bedtime as we please.

When the next boat comes along it will most assuredly have a real door on the forward/master berth as well as plenty of additional beam to support kids sleeping in places other than the aft cabin. I'm under no delusion of this being a long-term fix for sleeping three kids. I'm also aware that boating habits are also likely to change dramatically as my kids get older. For this year though......I think this has the makings of a BIG upgrade for minimal investment.
 
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We called ours the baby jail. It was a love / hate relationship with that thing.
 
As of this morning I have the frame built and will likely paint it tomorrow depending on the weather.

Nothing fancy to see here. Obviously the legs going vertical are not yet attached. I cut those "way too long" and will verify proper length once I get to the boat.

Once painted I'll mount the Coleman cot to the top side, toss the mattress on, make the bed and enjoy.

32801161626_a45b1494b1_c.jpg


I'll post some photos once I have it on the boat and finished as well.
 
I got out to the boat today to do some clean up and finish fitting my new bunk.

Here's what the base ultimately looks like. Next steps are to sand the rough spots off, paint it (white) and attach the cot to the top. She's quite sturdy. This should work well for one or two seasons. If required I can change the center support and rotate the kiddos on the bottom 90 degrees and go head-to-toe with 'em for a few more years.....or at least until I get that 420 I've been dreaming about....

Poor lighting since my house batteries are dead as a door nail. Hence my post about shopping for three new batteries!



 
I would suggest placing a piece of plywood several inches wide under the bottom support leg to keep the pipe from digging into the seat cushion thus causing the cot to bow down in the center when someone is lying on it.....the plywood would spread the weight of the cot/sleeper out over a wider area of the cushion so the support would 'float' on top of the cushion....

cliff
 
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CliffA said:
I would suggest placing a piece of plywood several inches wide under the bottom support leg to keep the pipe from digging into the seat cushion thus causing the cot to bow down in the center.....the plywood would spread the weight of the cot/sleeper out over a wider area of the cushion so the support would 'float' on top of the cushion....

cliff
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing otherwise you are going to kill those cushions with the kids weight.
 
also I am not sure how the seat back cushions are fastened to the wall in the aft cabin but I would think they are not meant to be 'load bearing'.....since the frame of the bunk is resting on top of these cushions they are going to be supporting a lot of the total weight of the child and the bunk....if the bunk moves away from the back wall the only support for the frame would be on the two ends....I would hate to see the cushions get ripped off of their mounts and the bunk collapsing possibly injuring the child on the cot or the one below the bunk or damaging the upholstery....

I think it is a great idea....I'm just playing 'devil's advocate' to insure you have thought of all the possibilities associated with this design....

good luck....

cliff
 
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CliffA said:
I would suggest placing a piece of plywood several inches wide under the bottom support leg to keep the pipe from digging into the seat cushion thus causing the cot to bow down in the center when someone is lying on it.....the plywood would spread the weight of the cot/sleeper out over a wider area of the cushion so the support would 'float' on top of the cushion....

cliff
Click to expand...

That was my first thought when I looked at it too. I might cover the plywood with some foam or something too so the edges don't tear the cushions.
 
Thanks for the comments, fellas. The cushions around the sides have a solid piece of "something" inside them. I assume it's either plywood or fiberglass. Probably about half the dept of those cushions is solid. That's what's supporting the pipes, not just fluff and hope! ha.

As for the plywood below the center support....yup...it might have to happen. I want to get a kid or three up there first to see how much push I get in the middle. I was initially thinking about using something thinner than plywood but we'll see. I also want this to look clean when finished. Whatever the case I certainly will not be damaging the cushions. I gotta be able to sell this beauty some day!
 
Wrapped up the bunk install today. A lot of activity at the marina! The sun is shining and they are tossing boats in the water at quite the rate. I think I'm still two weeks away if I had to guess.

Three sleeping bags are all that remain to complete the kid cabin in our 340. I may trim the center supports a bit our first time out. I think they are just a touch too tall. Otherwise I'm quite pleased with the result.

Thanks to some of the advice above I did toss two pieces of foam "flooring" tiles under the center support (after gluing them together). More than enough to keep that support from permanently deforming my cushions...I think.

Not the best pictures. My batteries are deader than doornails. Not a bit of juice to be had for lighting.



 
looks good....I hope it works out for you....

cliff
 
well, how did the homemade bunk work out?

cliff
 
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