Vacuflush vacuum switch shutoff vacuum level?

carterchapman said:
Did you lube your new duckbill base seals with some silicone grease when you installed them?
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Should I have? I mean I may have encountered this advice over the years of dealing with this system, but I guess I have not seen this actively encouraged in any of the various troubleshooting stuff I've read. It's always "new duckbills, new duckbills, new duckbills".
 
I did not do it on my first duckbill replacement, and I still had problems building vacuum. I opened it up again and sealed the duckbill bases and O Rings and didn’t have any more problems with that unit. When I rebuilt my other unit, I used silicone grease, but also needed to replace the bellows.
 
Well, “shit fire” as some say.

Replaced the bellows and it runs and shuts off as expected. Nothing was wrong with the bellows? They held water on the inside when I filled them up, so no cracks.

I guess just another $$$ and hours of my life spent insuring using the can on the water works.
 
I danced this dance on my Dancer (couldn't resist) for years - intermittently would just run and run.

Replaced the switch, the bellows, 2 sets of ducks, and finally just resorted to shutting off the breaker.... UNTIL ...... the pump itself started to audibly slow down. I never considered it to be the pump, as the switch controls the on/off and the other components determine vacuum, but my guess is that a failing motor just wasn't making enough vacuum mojo consistently.

Bought the new upgraded whisper pump, and just to be sure, I bought the whole kit which included the ducks and the bellows. $350 with overnight shipping form Seacoast (they are awesome).

https://seacoastservices.com/whisper-motor-upgrade-kit-12-volts-w-1-1-2-duck-bill-valves/

I was rapturous! Easy replacement, and the system works like a charm. And it cycles easily twice as fast as the old one (when it actually cycled).
 
Island Time Buffalo said:
I danced this dance on my Dancer (couldn't resist) for years - intermittently would just run and run.

Replaced the switch, the bellows, 2 sets of ducks, and finally just resorted to shutting off the breaker.... UNTIL ...... the pump itself started to audibly slow down. I never considered it to be the pump, as the switch controls the on/off and the other components determine vacuum, but my guess is that a failing motor just wasn't making enough vacuum mojo consistently.

Bought the new upgraded whisper pump, and just to be sure, I bought the whole kit which included the ducks and the bellows. $350 with overnight shipping form Seacoast (they are awesome).

https://seacoastservices.com/whisper-motor-upgrade-kit-12-volts-w-1-1-2-duck-bill-valves/

I was rapturous! Easy replacement, and the system works like a charm. And it cycles easily twice as fast as the old one (when it actually cycled).
Click to expand...
Very interesting! I am currently dancing this dance as well...lol. This made me think. Question...how fast should the pump be going? Any chance someone could video a working pump cycling or time the RPM's?
 
Screw it...I ordered the new pump. No need for someone to do all that. Thanks for the tip! I will report back.
 
mdolesh said:
Very interesting! I am currently dancing this dance as well...lol. This made me think. Question...how fast should the pump be going? Any chance someone could video a working pump cycling or time the RPM's?
Click to expand...


This guy did some vids on replacing VF parts. He cycles it and counts the RPMS at this point in the vid (approx 8:20 mark).

I would guess that was close to what my old pump did when it was working correctly. The new pump is about twice as fast as what you see in the video.
 
Island Time Buffalo said:
This guy did some vids on replacing VF parts. He cycles it and counts the RPMS at this point in the vid (approx 8:20 mark).

I would guess that was close to what my old pump did when it was working correctly. The new pump is about twice as fast as what you see in the video.
Click to expand...
Oh yea! My pump isnt even half this fast...this could be IT! Thank you!
 
mdolesh said:
Very interesting! I am currently dancing this dance as well...lol. This made me think. Question...how fast should the pump be going? Any chance someone could video a working pump cycling or time the RPM's?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, the speed of the pump piston (or pump bellows) ought to be sort of irrelevant so long as the pump can actually operate. If the system can hold vacuum, slower pump operation speed just means it takes a little longer for the vacuum cycle to complete. Obviously there are speeds that are too slow, but I don't think the pump speed has anything to do with how much vacuum it can generate.

One that can operate very fast may actually mask problems with vacuum loss in the system if it can quickly generate the shutoff vacuum level. This might be a good thing in some cases, but it could also lead to more frequent cycling if vacuum can't be held for an extended period.

One thing I noticed that could be a problem is that the motor shaft is round and uses a set screw in the crank eccentric to engage the motor shaft. I know (from my last task) is that you can get this screw not tight enough that the motor shaft slips. A keyed shaft would be superior, but it would also probably complicate assembly by making it a real nuisance to mate the motor shaft and the eccentric due to the specific orientation the keyed shaft would require.

Because of the quirks in my original symptoms -- losing peak vacuum levels after replacing the switch, duck bills alone not fixing the problem and my "used" bellows looking fine (or at least not cracked) -- I kind of wonder if the real solution wasn't just the basic cleaning of the pump assembly and tail pipes. It seems like there is a buildup of "crud", some of which is crystalized urea and some of it is just kind of a dense sludge which probably compromised the bellows seal and ability to draw a vacuum.

I think the next time I do this (as surely I will!), I am going to just bring the whole vacuum pump assembly and tail pieces and soak them in vinegar overnight. I think in some cases where the regular maintenance parts are in reasonable condition, they might not even need replacing if you can get the interior surfaces cleaned.
 
mobocracy said:
the speed of the pump piston (or pump bellows) ought to be sort of irrelevant so long as the pump can actually operate.
Click to expand...

I never said the speed was relevant. Only that the new one is faster and the old one was clearly slowing to a stop. And a motor that is slowing down is dying - so comparing ones's speed to a standard/norm is one way to evaluate whether that is happening.

If you can fix your problem by cleaning it, then great for you. Others may be in my situation and I can hopefully save some headaches.
 
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I have a different problem but I think it might be related to vacuum pressure too high. I rebuilt the the ball and replaced it and seals with all new parts because it was not holding pressure. The old ball was delaminating so clearly the issue. After a few flushes the lever and ball would not move. Stuck in closed position. Extra pressure on the foot pedal just caused the internal gear to slip leaving ball in open position. Reinstalled everything thing just hoping was not done right but same result. Did this three times. The whole pump assembly was upgraded two years ago by a qualified mechanic. I am suspecting based on observation that the new parts and seal are working too well under too much pressure and just won’t let go before the gear does. Looks like it might be designed to give rather than break.

any and all advice is welcome. TIA
Jack
 
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