Water leaking into bilge from drive area

D

DieselDogg

Member
Dec 18, 2013
98
Boat Info
Boatless
Engines
Diesel
I noticed that I'm getting water in the bilge. The boat is in the covered slip and it has not been raining. It's coming in at a rate of about 1 gal per day. I tracked it down to the starboard drive as I was able to see it trickling down the transom when I looked under the motor.

Pulled her out today and now I see that there is a little puddle on the ground under the starboard drive, but not under the port side.

Looking at the bellows, the shift cable is dry and so is the bigger bellows above it. The only one that's wet is the one in the pictures and as far as I can tell, that's where it's dripping from. Would you guys say I'm on the right track? Is this the drive shaft bellows that I'm looking at?

Thanks!


IMG_20150912_214547.jpg
 
+1. exhaust bellows. that won't let water in the bilge. technically you can run the boat without that bellow on at all
 
check your anode bolts. mine had corroded themselves away to nothing and one literally fell out when i went to replace it.
 
I think the water you are seeing is dripping out of the exhaust bellows because the clamp on the transom side is loose. Like others have said it's not an issue because the exhaust bellows stay full of water anyhow and are not really even needed. A lot of people change to the the exhaust tube when they do a bellows job (I did on my Alpha this year) which is much easier to install - in fact I think the tube is standard OEM on BIIIs now. As far as the water leaking in, it could still be the shift cable (most likely), U-joint bellows (seems you would hear the gimbal bearing start growling as the water would damage it pretty quickly), steering arm (where it goes through the transom) or exhaust y-pipe (where it connects to inside transom assembly. You need to figure out where the water is coming in - from inside the boat, up high on the transom assembly indicates a steering arm leak, down low indicates the shift cable or y-pipe. If the water is oily it could be the u-joint bellows (it would be washing away the gimbal bearing grease as it leaked). I would also pull the drive, if the U-joint bellows is leaking it will be immediately obvious, that will also give you access to probe the shift cable bellows - typically when the shift bellows first starts leaking, it is only when the drive is raised, then it gets worse. If it is the shift cable bellows, it's time to replace all three bellows and the shift cable. Last year my boat (Alpha I) started leaking a little water, my shift cable bellows looked ok, but as soon as I poked at them they literally started falling apart and the leak got a lot bigger - I replaced all three bellows and the shift cable this spring - no leaks, no issues.
 
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BillK2632 - Thanks for all that info. That almost should be a sticky there is so much info in your post! I had a feeling that I'm going to probably have to pull the drive, but now that I know for sure I need to, I feel better about doing it.

I'm contemplating pulling the drive myself, so sounds like a have some reading / youtubing to do. I've worked on my cars for 20 years now and have owned 3 boats before this, but never had the cajones to pull the drive myself. Now that we are going into the winter and the boating season is over, I think I'm going to give this a try myself. I know it might take some time, but it will be interesting to learn how these things really work and might save me some serious coin, especially that I have two of them.

Thanks again everyone!
 
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DieselDogg said:
BillK2632 - Thanks for all that info. That almost should be a sticky there is so much info in your post! I had a feeling that I'm going to probably have to pull the drive, but now that I know for sure I need to, I feel better about doing it.

I'm contemplating pulling the drive myself, so sounds like a have some reading / youtubing to do. I've worked on my cars for 20 years now and have owned 3 boats before this, but never had the cajones to pull the drive myself. Now that we are going into the winter and the boating season is over, I think I'm going to give this a try myself. I know it might take some time, but it will be interesting to learn how these things really work and might save me some serious coin, especially that I have two of them.

Thanks again everyone!
Click to expand...

good luck with the repairs....you should seriously consider making or buying a stand to hold the drive once you remove it from the boat....that makes it much easier to work on the drive and lessens the chance of damage by lying it on the floor.....

cliff
 
I agree 100%. I'm not trying to lift or move it around with my back. A lift / stand is a must.
 
Especially with a BIII, they are HEAVY, my Alpha I is not too bad, but I still build a stand - some scrap wood and a couple of casters - makes working on the drive much easier. Also wanted to point out, the most likely source of your leak is the shift cable bellows - that one always goes first, the Y-Pipe is probably the least likely. The other spot the steering arm, it's a fairly common leak, if you see rust etc around the arm on the inside of the boat, then that's probably the culprit. The OEM fix requires removing the transom assembly, but there is an aftermarket fix kit that I hear is successful and fairly easy. Hopefully it's the shift bellows.
 
Finally pulled the drive. First time doing it. It was a biatch to get it off, till I read on some forum to cut a 2x4 about 4-7/8 and use it between the gimbal ring and top of the drive as a wedge. Drive came right off!

When I loosened up the bolts the water started to drip out, mostly from the one under shift cable. Once I pulled the drive, the drive shaft bellow was full of water. Is it safe to say I need a new gimbal bearing? Also, if the water is in the driveshaft bellows, does it mean it’s leaking through the bellows or possible it’s leaking from elsewhere? Thanks!
 

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unless you have aggressively hosed down the back of the engine compartment , the bellows have a leak.
 
DieselDogg said:
Finally pulled the drive. First time doing it. It was a biatch to get it off, till I read on some forum to cut a 2x4 about 4-7/8 and use it between the gimbal ring and top of the drive as a wedge. Drive came right off!

When I loosened up the bolts the water started to drip out, mostly from the one under shift cable. Once I pulled the drive, the drive shaft bellow was full of water. Is it safe to say I need a new gimbal bearing? Also, if the water is in the driveshaft bellows, does it mean it’s leaking through the bellows or possible it’s leaking from elsewhere? Thanks!
Click to expand...


I had water in the same bellow. This was discovered last month when I had my drives pulled off for routine winter service.

What is troubling to me is that the yard said it was due to a bad bellow. I reminded them that the bellows were replaced early last season and that they also had that drive off again later that year to replace an oil seal and install a new yoke.

When I asked to see it, they agreed it was in good shape and later confirmed it was just the hose clamp that came loose. So I said ok, let's replace the gimbal bearing since its cheep enough and did have some rust on it (not as bad as the picture posted above). However the yard is now saying they need to "go through the drive and check for any damage" and when I asked what would be damaged? That you would see right away I did not get a response.

Could someone tell me if this seems like they are trying to "find" work or if the drive should be checked and if so what should be looked at?
 
DD, I never liked the way Bravo`s seal. the shift cable port is sealed by an O ring, the oil transfer port is sealed by a O ring and the water inlet is sealed by a O ring. Having water in all 3 I would check to see if the mounting surfaces have been damaged.

suss1173, best to start your own topic so it dosent get lost. What clamp was loose to cause the leak. The clamps for the bellows? If so, then any damage should be covered by the shop that did the work.
 
Bt Doctur said:
DD,

suss1173, best to start your own topic so it dosent get lost. What clamp was loose to cause the leak. The clamps for the bellows? If so, then any damage should be covered by the shop that did the work.
Click to expand...

Yes it was the clamp for the bellows that was loose.

I'd also like to better understand what (if anything) on the drive could have been damaged as a result of the water intrusion.

Unfortunately I'm reluctant to have this marina do much b/c it seems that when they do work on the boat, something else ends up going wrong (this was not the first time). I understand owning an old boat and stuff happens. But I'm getting the impression that this maybe more of a situation of sloppy work leading to other problems. Not necessarily age of the boat taking its toll. At least in this one situation.

Regarding the the work that was done, the invoice states:
Removed port out drive and resealed the upper driveshaft housing and installed a new U joint yoke.

BTW- good idea about starting a new thread. http://clubsearay.com/showthread.ph...ellows-do-damage-to-the-drive-(Alpha-1-drive)

happy holidays to all.
 
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If the oil in the drive was still clean, then I`d say no damage was done.
 
This weekend I finally removed all the bellows and the bell housing. Upon close inspection of the U-joint bellows, i noticed that the retaining ring wasn't seated all the way. Hopefully this is my leak. I'm really glad I went through all the trouble of taking it all apart. It looks like the swivel shaft was done by the previous owner as I have two plugs on the gimbal housing, so hopefully this isn't leaking.

I did notice that the hinge pins definitely were not torqued or loctited properly by whoever was here last. They came right out, no heat. They are suppose to be torqued to 145 lb ft, but they were at less than 40 lb ft if I had to guess. Also, the gear lube hose was missing the nylon clamp on the bell housing connector.

The next question I need to answer is whether I need to do the U-joints. They do have some rust on them and were definitely exposed to water. I asked the marina last time I was there and the mechanic said I definitely need to do them. He said it's just a matter of time before they start failing since they were in water. He said the entire assembly (P/N 864244A2) needs to be replaced as one unit. Is this right?! Is it not possible to replace just the crosses (P/N 865496A01)? Price difference is huge.


Here is the pic up close of that retaining ring not seated all the way:
IMG_20160220_093534.jpg
 
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Assuming it is just surface rust. Couldn't you clean up the rust and paint them?
 
DieselDogg said:
This weekend I finally removed all the bellows and the bell housing. Upon close inspection of the U-joint bellows, i noticed that the retaining ring wasn't seated all the way. Hopefully this is my leak. I'm really glad I went through all the trouble of taking it all apart. It looks like the hinge pin was done by the previous owner as I have two plugs on the transom housing, so hopefully this isn't leaking.

I did notice that the hinge pins definitely were not torqued or loctited properly by whoever was here last. They came right out, no heat. They are suppose to be torqued to 145 lb ft, but they were at less than 40 lb ft if I had to guess. Also, the gear lube hose was missing the nylon clamp on the bell housing connector.

The next question I need to answer is whether I need to do the U-joints. They do have some rust on them and were definitely exposed to water. I asked the marina last time I was there and the mechanic said I definitely need to do them. He said it's just a matter of time before they start failing since they were in water. He said the entire assembly (P/N 864244A2) needs to be replaced as one unit. Is this right?! Is it not possible to replace just the crosses (P/N 865496A01)? Price difference is huge.


Here is the pic up close of that retaining ring not seated all the way:
View attachment 43777
Click to expand...
Mercury no longer sells the u joints I've used these with no problems

http://www.amazon.com/Sierra-Intern...UTF8&qid=1455233612&sr=8-1&keywords=865493A01
 
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