Westerbeke Smoking from underneath. Help Troubleshooting- Please.

C

cacioa

New Member
Nov 16, 2010
55
Huntington, NY
Boat Info
2002 340 SUNDANCER, RAYMARINE C120
Engines
8.1s
I have a 4.5bcgb westerbeke with 15 hours on it in my 2002 340. Trying to troubleshoot a "smoking" issue. Chain of events as follows;
1- had gen on and it shut off by itself after around 2 hours.
2 - noticed impeller belt shredded and coolant reservoir hose was not connected to heat exchanger.
3 - changed belt and connected coolant hose--ran perfect... For 90 seconds. Water pumping overboard fine, however white smoke started coming out from underneath generator. ( I stopped the gennie right away prior to temp sender was activated)
4 - hoses from exchanger we're very hot and manifold was hot.
5 - waited 20 minutes, added antifreeze into reservoir (exchanger seemed full to top). I then opened petcock and squeezed a hose. Coolant came right out, so I don't think there's any air in the system.
6 - tried again, same thing- after 90 seconds or so there was white smoke coming out from underneath the generator. Again I shut it prior to getting too hot.
Any suggestions on what I should be looking at next would greatly be appreciated.
Thank you.
 
White smoke would likely be steam (hot water). What does the smoke smell like? (electrical burning, antifreeze...) Is there any fluid of any kind leaking while it runs? Have you checked the oil level and coolant level in the bottle? Check to see if the coolant cap properly attached - if not, it can cause high pressure within the coolant system and blow off a poorly secured hose.
 
I will agree with Jim. We need more details on what we are calling "white smoke".

I have the very same generator. I've had white smoke (not steam) in two occassions. Firts time, white smoke caused due to the red paint burning off from the manifold. This happened when I replaced the impeller and an air bubble formed on the manifold which caused the manifold to overheat. To avoid this, open the air release valve at the top of your manifold. It should be a butterfly looking valve. Run the genny and open the valve until liquid comes out. Don't do this with a hot engine! Make sure its still cold. You can also pump the ruber hose coming out of the heat exchange and into the exhoust manifold using your hand until water flows out.

The other time I had white smoke is when I burned the windings from my back end (electrical generator part of the genset). Needless to say I hope the later is not your situation.

Give us a smoke description to better help, but here are some of my experiences. I hope they help.
 
Coolant level in reservoir is at proper level. The smell is faint-- nothing really strong but if I had to describe it, Smells like sort of a light plastic burning, but not too strong. Heres a video showing exactly what happens when running.
[video=youtube_share;tSiokgtXpOM]http://youtu.be/tSiokgtXpOM[/video]
 
Can I inspect the heat exchanger by just taking off the cap, o-ring and gasket? Do I need to close my sea cock prior to inspection?
Thanks again
 
This is a long shot.

Are you sure you don't have too much oil? There is an oil breathing hose down there that could be releasing the built up pressure in your oil pan as it heats up and burns. Does it smell like burning oil? I know you mention a plastic smell, but plastic has hydrocarbons in it so... Maybe?
 
You said the previous belt was shredded. Perhaps there is a piece of that belt still caught up somewhere and it is rubbing on one of the pulleys.
 
Those are good points. I will see if there too much oil/ or oil leaking and I'll see if there is any belt pieces stuck. I'll continue my trouble shooting tomorrow. Than you very much for the ideas.
 
Not yet but think I'm getting close. Unfortunately I only have time to look at the genny on the weekend. So this is where I am now; last week I fit my 250 pound body on the aft portion of my motors so that I can have a different angle on the generator. So I inspected the pulleys and belts prior to starting and noticed the new belt I had put on is showing wear already and my bracket the water pump rests on is all rusty. Keep in mind 15 hours on the generator. anyway I proceeded to start the motor and thought I was lucky, but after 2-3 minutes I saw a constant drip from my water pump, and the smoke started one it started dripping. I cut the motor off prior to any sensors and did another visual inspection. I noticed that all the red paint from my hose on the bottom of the genie was cracked and melted off. I also noticed that the paint on my end cap of the heat exchanger was all pealed off. So i came to the conclusion that i need to change my water pump and will clean out my heat exchanger. I went home and did a little research. Apparently on this model generator there was a misalignment of pulleys and you have to change the pump and resting bracket (kit 42607) comes with pump, all hoses, pump housing, bracket and new different sized belt. I ordered this kit, some heat exchanger zincs, and the heat exchanger gasket. Time permitting, I'm hoping to clean out the heat exchanger and swap out the pump this weekend. It seems like a pretty straight forward procedure. After paying 400 for the kit I'm hoping I can do the replacement myself. And most of all I'm hoping this is the end of my smoke issue. Will keep you posted.
 
I cleaned out the heat exchanger and found two vanes from my impellor. I changed out the whole pump mechanism and hoses. All hoses clear, heat exchanger clear, ran it for a good 5 minutes water flow was excellent ( big difference with new pump). however, it started smoking again. same weird smell. I cut it off once it started smoking. Does anyone think this can possibly be coolant somewhere that is burning off. Keep in mind I must have lost 2 quarts of coolant --but to me it seemed like it all went into the bilge even though the hose from the reservoir rested on top of the actual generator. Do you think I can do damage if I have strong water exhaust coming out, and let it smoke hoping its something that just need to burn off?-- Im assuming a sensor will kick in and shut down the motor if its anything serious. --Unless anyone has any other ideas of whay may be causing this smoke. Keep in mind, after smoking, manifold is hot to the touch. Not sure if thats normal because i never really felt it before all these problems. I can take temperateure of it to see how hot it actually gets. --ANY advice would greatly be appreciated.
 
Manifold should NOT be hot enough that you cant keep your hand on it. If it gets too hot it will burn off the paint and that sets off a lot of smoke. I know you noted that you made sure you did not have an air bubble in your system, but a hot manifold is a clear sign of an air bubble in the system. That is, if there is water flowing.
 
130 to 136 degrees. Let it run for 10 minutes- smelled plastic / electrical smell. definitely electrical/ ac portion of the generator. Time for a mechanic. Thank you for all the advice
 
I had a similar problem with my Westerbeak 4.5 on my 01 340. Pulleys were rusty and pitted. It was causing my belts to jump off and shred. I was replacing the pulleys when we noticed the timing belt seal had been damaged from the pressure on the rusty pulley. We replaced the seal and she ran perfect till I sold it this spring.

Below is the link for the parts manual for your generator. I hope this helps.

Page 16 item 5 is the seal I had to replace.

http://www.westerbeke.com/OnlineManuals/45000_4.5-7.0BCGB_Parts_List.pdf

Steve
 
Steve, thank you very much. The 3 mechanics I spoke to just say change the back end --without even looking at it. I honestly don't think it's the back end it was running 100% perfect until I had the belt problem. Hate to change a back end for 2,500 and it may not even be the problem. I will look at this in the spring. Is changing the timing belt seal a DIY type of project. Is it straight forward, or did you have to take some pulleys off to get to it?
Is it the same seal as #11 on page 33 of the attached link?

http://www.westerbeke.com/OnlineManuals/44898_4.5-7.0BCGB_Technical_Man.pdf

thanks again
 
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The toughest thing was removing the pulleys. They are in a grove with a set screw and were you to get off. I would start a week or so before with spraying them with penetrating oil.

Remove as much stuff as you can off the area and get a good look at everything. You should be able to locate your leak if you have one. The timing belt cover is also a good source for an oil leak, they are very thin and can cause a good leak. You may need a seal puller to pull the seal out. I can't remember if we had to take the timing belt cover off or not. I also had a small crack in the timing belt cover that we repaired.

Happy to help and good luck.


Steve
 
Sorry for being late to this thread. I'm struggling with several contradictions.

1) 15 hours on a 2002 generator? Is this thing brand new or never been used?
2) 2 hours of running then a safety shutdown. Restart and safety shutdown in 90 seconds. There are three safetys on the your generator which will cause it to shutdown by closing the safety circuit to ground. There are usually two heat sensors (one on the engine and one on the exhaust elbow) and one oil pressure sensor. It would really be helpful to know which one is the cause of the safety shutdown. An infrared temp tester can also help. Was the generator smoking during the entire 2 hours or did that start after the safety shutdown? Also, was there a load on the generator during the 2 hours?
3) Replacing the fresh water pump was a good idea since white smoke is common with antifreeze. I'm a bit surprised that didn't solve the problem. But we could be dealing with two separate problems: The smoke and the reason for the safety shutdown.
4) A faulty backend does not usually cause a safety shutdown....so I don't buy into your mechanics theory at this point.


If this is a 2002 generator that has not been used.....there probably is a reason for it. I have seen a lot of old, low hour generators that never worked right so the owners didn't use them and never got them serviced. If this is the case, I usually pull the generator off the boat and go through it. Access on your boat, (I'm 220 lbs 6' 2") is a real pain. Pulling it makes it easy to find the problem and solve it.

Prior to pulling it, I would run it again until (if) it shutdowns (make sure you borrow and infrared temp gun to monitor the engine and exhaust manifold). Operating under the assumption that the smoking showed up after the original shutdown it may be just residual anti-freeze from the repairs and the coolant overflow (since the overflow hose was not hooked up). Belt problems smell like rubber burning.....you would know that smell. I would also check the oil level before I ran this test. If it is anti-freeze....it will burn off in 10 minutes or so.


-John
 
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John,
thanks for taking the time to respond.

1) As far as 15 hours, I put on all 15. The generator had zero hours when I purchased the boat from original owner. It ran 100% perfect for all of those hours.
2) safety cut off was the exhaust temperature sender. I may have accidentally jostled it when I replaced the belt. I tightened the 2 screws on top of sensor and that was my problem. It then ran without holding down the preheat switch. Keep in mind the gen was on for 2 hours ( no load- just charging batteries) then it cut off. I noticed the belt shredded, changed it and that's when this whole mystery began with the smoking. -there are no more sensor cut offs, it'll keep running but the smoke gets thicker and thicker.
3) I did let it run for around 10 minutes before I surrendered. Temps were between 130 and 140 throughout.

Is there a fool proof way of knowing if its the back end. Hate to spend $2,500 to realize that wasnt the issue. (There's a place in Florida that sells rewound for $1200 then $1,300 more for labor from a local mechanic on Long Island )

thank you
 
I know this conversation has been idle for a few years, but I am having this exact problem on my westerbeke, same model as yours. Did you ever get it resolved?
 
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