Why is the West poking the Bear?

[Dani-Lu]

Please try to take your emotion out of this topic, before you reply. This is not about innocent people dying. I am not negating the fact of how terrible this is, but we have to think strategically, not emotionally, especially when dealing with a Nuclear power! The reality is, Ukraine is not strategic for us. If it had such great value, we would be in there fighting.

Imagine if Putin cut a deal with Mexico or Canada, to put his military on our border in one of these countries, how do you think we would react? Well, this is exactly what the West is doing to Putin. And how do you think we would react to Canada or Mexico if they were pushing for Russian military to sit in their countries on our border? We would undoubtedly let them know who is boss!

It’s probably too late, but we should have agreed to never allow Ukraine into NATO, and in return Putin allows Ukraine to remain a separate state, speaking their chosen language. He doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine, other than them being a big buffer state from The EU, and he will never accept anything else. This is not a financial decision, this is about the security of his country! Sanctions and even shutting down his oil will not stop him. He isn’t crazy, he is smart and strategic in what he is doing. And, if we can’t fix this, his next step will be nuclear because the West has left him no other option!

I pray I am wrong, and we take him out and then try to resolve these issues with Russia.

 

[Halfhitch]

Remember the Cuban missile crisis. JFK got pretty hot when the Russians started moving in next door.

 

[Blueone]

Please try to take your emotion out of this topic, before you reply. This is not about innocent people dying..

it’s all about people dying and a murderer getting away with it while we all watch…it’s disgusting…ask any sensible Russian

 

[Golfman25]

Please try to take your emotion out of this topic, before you reply. This is not about innocent people dying. I am not negating the fact of how terrible this is, but we have to think strategically, not emotionally, especially when dealing with a Nuclear power! The reality is, Ukraine is not strategic for us. If it had such great value, we would be in there fighting.

Imagine if Putin cut a deal with Mexico or Canada, to put his military on our border in one of these countries, how do you think we would react? Well, this is exactly what the West is doing to Putin. And how do you think we would react to Canada or Mexico if they were pushing for Russian military to sit in their countries on our border? We would undoubtedly let them know who is boss!

It’s probably too late, but we should have agreed to never allow Ukraine into NATO, and in return Putin allows Ukraine to remain a separate state, speaking their chosen language. He doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine, other than them being a big buffer state from The EU, and he will never accept anything else. This is not a financial decision, this is about the security of his country! Sanctions and even shutting down his oil will not stop him. He isn’t crazy, he is smart and strategic in what he is doing. And, if we can’t fix this, his next step will be nuclear because the West has left him no other option!

I pray I am wrong, and we take him out and then try to resolve these issues with Russia.

So if he takes Ukraine, he pushes Russia's boarders out to Poland and other NATO courtries. WTF is the difference. It's all pretext for him to rebuild the USSR. That's his end goal.

 

[RBB]

i hate to say it but it seems to me Putin's rationalization make more sense than Biden
shutting off the oil here which makes zero sense. I hope he starves the folks that voted for him to death. They are getting what they ask for.

 

[MonacoMike]

The reality is, Ukraine is not strategic for us. If it had such great value, we would be in there fighting.

This needs to be rethought. Ukrainian is a big exporter of oil, grain, and metals.

https://fortune.com/2022/02/24/ukra...elines-ports-plants-war-russia-arcelormittal/

 

[MonacoMike]

The reality is, Ukraine is not strategic for us.

But it is strategic to Bidet, Pelosi, Kerry, and Romney. A nice bunch of bipartisan corruption…

 

[Dani-Lu]

it’s all about people dying and a murderer getting away with it while we all watch…it’s disgusting…ask any sensible Russian

I hate seeing what I am seeing, and my grandparents are from Kiev! But, to Putin, this is not about people, this is about the security of Russia. You have to know your audience!! He will destroy Ukraine before they become part of the west!!! He won’t stop, in my opinion. And honestly, if we take him out, who will be in control of 1000’s of nuclear warheads? Lets face it, we have taken out other leaders, to learn we were better off with the country being stable. We want every country to be democratic, because thats good for us. But our want is a direct attack on many leaders of very powerful nations.

In 2008, NATO gave Ukraine the green light that they would be welcomed by NATO. That same day Putin warned the west, this Can Not happened. The same way we dis aaaw.

So if he takes Ukraine, he pushes Russia's boarders out to Poland and other NATO courtries. WTF is the difference. It's all pretext for him to rebuild the USSR. That's his end goal.

No, he would have kept Ukraine as it was - A buffer country. Remember, many Ukranians in eastern Ukraine still speak Russian. He’s smart enough to know Poland and all other NATO countries are off limit for him. He is not crazy, like I and many have been saying. He is just sticking to his original strategy to keep democracy out of Russia.

 

[Dani-Lu]

This needs to be rethought. Ukrainian is a big exporter of oil, grain, and metals.

https://fortune.com/2022/02/24/ukra...elines-ports-plants-war-russia-arcelormittal/

So what, they can keep exporting. Just not as a NATO country. That is all he cares about! He does not want western soldiers anywhere near his border. Unfortunately, Ukraine’s best future is what they were before trying to join NATO, nothing more, with respect to western alliances.

 

[Dani-Lu]

But it is strategic to Bidet, Pelosi, Kerry, and Romney. A nice bunch of bipartisan corruption…

All the politicians are F-ing idiots. They don’t have a clue. They don’t understand who we are dealing with. What scares me most is they don’t understand China either, and if we don’t cause a nuke war with Russia, China is next to be dealt with. Russia is old news and no longer the USSR super power, aside from securely positioned with thousands of nuclear war heads. China is our biggest competitor and we better figure out how to deal with them!

 

[MonacoMike]

So what, they can keep exporting. Just not as a NATO country. That is all he cares about! He does not want western soldiers anywhere near his border. Unfortunately, Ukraine’s best future is what they were before trying to join NATO, nothing more, with respect to western alliances.

You mean before the obummer CIA interfered in 2014 and propped up a regime friendly to the corruption the aforementioned politicians are involved in?

 

[Golfman25]

I hate seeing what I am seeing, and my grandparents are from Kiev! But, to Putin, this is not about people, this is about the security of Russia. You have to know your audience!! He will destroy Ukraine before they become part of the west!!! He won’t stop, in my opinion. And honestly, if we take him out, who will be in control of 1000’s of nuclear warheads? Lets face it, we have taken out other leaders, to learn we were better off with the country being stable. We want every country to be democratic, because thats good for us. But our want is a direct attack on many leaders of very powerful nations.

In 2008, NATO gave Ukraine the green light that they would be welcomed by NATO. That same day Putin warned the west, this Can Not happened. The same way we dis aaaw.


No, he would have kept Ukraine as it was - A buffer country. Remember, many Ukranians in eastern Ukraine still speak Russian. He’s smart enough to know Poland and all other NATO countries are off limit for him. He is not crazy, like I and many have been saying. He is just sticking to his original strategy to keep democracy out of Russia.

Seems you’re ignoring his stated desire to reconstitute the USSR. If it was as simple as saying no NATO for Ukraine this would be over.

 

[Woody]

This needs to be rethought. Ukrainian is a big exporter of oil, grain, and metals.

https://fortune.com/2022/02/24/ukra...elines-ports-plants-war-russia-arcelormittal/

So if he takes Ukraine, he pushes Russia's boarders out to Poland and other NATO courtries. WTF is the difference. It's all pretext for him to rebuild the USSR. That's his end goal.

As he invades Ukraine he's also threatening Sweden and Finland with 'military consequences'. Putin is a savage, he holds his own country back. Maybe more of his people will start to understand that now.

 

[aerobat77]

Beyond the valid political questions about this war
I find it interesting that russia from a pure military point of view struggles against ukraine - obviously running WOT of its military capabilities and with massive losses .

It seems clear now - in a conventional war against entire nato russia would have zero chances .

 

[Blueone]

Beyond the valid political questions about this war
I find it interesting that russia from a pure military point of view struggles against ukraine - obviously running WOT of its military capabilities and with massive losses .

It seems clear now - in a conventional war against entire nato russia would have zero chances .

Well ….. all Germany has is helmets…. You know which way France would run. And All our crap is still in Afghanistan ….and Russia has all the oil …. They just have a logistic problem delivering it to their tanks….. but practice makes perfect

 

[Dani-Lu]

Beyond the valid political questions about this war
I find it interesting that russia from a pure military point of view struggles against ukraine - obviously running WOT of its military capabilities and with massive losses .

It seems clear now - in a conventional war against entire nato russia would have zero chances .

And this is why I believe he won’t go any further. He is smart enough to know he can’t fight NATO. 10+ years ago he warned the west that if the Ukraine attempts to join NATO, it wouldn’t be pretty. He is just keeping his word. He had to attack Ukraine. If he hadn’t kept his word, his threats of Nuclear action would be empty. We pushed Ukraine into this situation and now they are screwed!

 

[Golfman25]

And this is why I believe he won’t go any further. He is smart enough to know he can’t fight NATO. 10+ years ago he warned the west that if the Ukraine attempts to join NATO, it wouldn’t be pretty. He is just keeping his word. He had to attack Ukraine. If he hadn’t kept his word, his threats of Nuclear action would be empty. We pushed Ukraine into this situation and now they are screwed!

I read somewhere that this is a setup by the Biden administration. Using Ukraine as bait to setup another Afghanistan situation which grinds Russia into the ground via a never ending insurgency.

 

[OllieC]

We all know it’s not just Russia right? Iran and China are in a three way with Russia. The current admin is working with all three. Now we want to buy more oil from Venezuela? Biden is sure into giving US dollars to dictatorships that hate us.

 

[El Capitan]

Please try to take your emotion out of this topic, before you reply. This is not about innocent people dying. I am not negating the fact of how terrible this is, but we have to think strategically, not emotionally, especially when dealing with a Nuclear power! The reality is, Ukraine is not strategic for us. If it had such great value, we would be in there fighting.

Imagine if Putin cut a deal with Mexico or Canada, to put his military on our border in one of these countries, how do you think we would react? Well, this is exactly what the West is doing to Putin. And how do you think we would react to Canada or Mexico if they were pushing for Russian military to sit in their countries on our border? We would undoubtedly let them know who is boss!

It’s probably too late, but we should have agreed to never allow Ukraine into NATO, and in return Putin allows Ukraine to remain a separate state, speaking their chosen language. He doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine, other than them being a big buffer state from The EU, and he will never accept anything else. This is not a financial decision, this is about the security of his country! Sanctions and even shutting down his oil will not stop him. He isn’t crazy, he is smart and strategic in what he is doing. And, if we can’t fix this, his next step will be nuclear because the West has left him no other option!

I pray I am wrong, and we take him out and then try to resolve these issues with Russia.

yeah, we would roll over citizens, shelling suburbs, killing non combatants like Putin is....C'mon maan!

NATO is the excuse. See former Soviet Union for "why". Do some research. Find out where Ukrainians originate from, look back to the 16th,17th and 18th centuries. See what name pops up.

NATO....Pfft.

 

[Golfman25]

We all know it’s not just Russia right? Iran and China are in a three way with Russia. The current admin is working with all three. Now we want to buy more oil from Venezuela? Biden is sure into giving US dollars to dictatorships that hate us.

It's ok if it's a 3-way