Window Rebuild 1986 Sundancer 268 (268DA)

[Ron Lime]

I am rebuilding my side windows. So far pretty good. They are out and in my basement. I have removed and identified the
'Glazing' - Holds in fixed part of window (forward)
'Flocking' - Track for sliding part of window (aft)
'Screw Cover' - Hides mounting screws

and see I can source them from https://www.taylormadeproducts.com/hardware/sliding-side-window-parts/.

I have two questions:
One - the material between the frame and the glass on the fixed portion. It's pretty decayed but it looks like it was a thin maybe 3/8" wide ribbon of rubber. (Picture "Fixed_Window_Track"). (Order is frame, this unknown layer, glass, glazing). Is this a product or just use a sealant? Which one?

Two - There is a small maybe 1/2" high piece of plexiglass at the aft end of the windows, mounted in the fixed window track at the bottom. I guess perhaps to help prevent leaks? Was it original or some attempt to stop leaks? Do you think I need to re-install it? (Picture "Bottom_Track_Guard")

In the spring when I re-install the whole window, what sealant do you recommmend?

Lastly, anyone with recent experience ordering these products from Taylormade? How long does it take or costs.

Thanks in advance.

 

[390x]

I've purchased all those products from Taylor, but I couldn't tell you what it cost at the moment. I remember they weren't cheap, but nothing on a boat is. 1. I believe the rubber you're talking about it Butyl Tape. You can get it at an auto parts store probably a lot cheaper than Taylor. I think i got mine from O'Reilly Auto. 2. My 390 didn't have those, so I can't help you there. SikaFlex 295UV is what i used to seal the plexi back up.

 

[Ron Lime]

Update:

Pricing is as follows:
'Glazing' - Holds in fixed part of window (forward) $2.10/ft
'Flocking' - Track for sliding part of window (aft) $6.00/ft
'Screw Cover' - Hides mounting screws $2.10/ft

$20 shipping charge + tax.
I have measured 18' of each for each window, so 36' total.

Sent email, got same day quote and CC auth form, shipped next day.

And I did NOT have to specify the boat make/model (older posts indicated that if they knew it was for a Sea Ray they made you order via a dealer).

 

[SCORPIO]

That little piece of plexi is a diversion dam to keep water that runs aft in the track in a heavy rain or from spray, from flowing into the cabin before the weep slots can take it overboard. Also, there is a small piece of fuzzy material between the sliding panel and the fixed panel. I think they call it schlegal or something like that. It MUST be in place. It keeps water from coming between the two panels. It's like the fuzzy stuff in a storm window between the two panes.

 

[WaltL]

Hey Ron, Thanks for the supply link! I was looking for a supplier for gaskets for my 390 EC.

So I have a question for you and others who may have done this. I understand these windows were all designed to slide open in some fashion; however, the PO's of my boat attempted to seal everything up, running black silicone/caulk material between the frame and lexan mostly on the lower portion and at the aft end. This has failed, miserably, and I take on significant water when it rains from the stbd side. I tried to remove some of it and go back over with M-1 adhesive and also a bead of clear silicone on the interior, which helped a lot, but didn't solve the problem... I'm told covering the external weep holes doesn't help (didn't know they existed or where they are located).

I know I'm going to have remove these windows to repair them. Can you describe how you did that, how they are fixed to the hull. Do you have any photos you could share?

Given that the original windows were problematic and leaked on these boats, I'm reluctant to do what you're doing- restore to original, and think I'd like to just seal everything up and be done with it. Did you consider this or find links where others had described doing it? I assume it would be easier than restoration. I also don't know if I need to replace the light and heavy schlegel (pics) or use a sealant instead, if I'm going to seal everything off anyway.

Thanks, and apologies for jumping your post.
Walt

 

[dwna1a]

Walt, the windows you have are made by TaylorMade. You can reach out to them to get a deconstruction drawing and to get the seals. From what I see in your pics the screw cover and flocking are shot.

 

[Ron Lime]

To remove the windows from the boat:

• On the outside the rubber gasket (Called 'Screw Cover') is pulled out of the track. (Picture 1).
• This exposes the screws that attach the window to the hull. Remove those.
• Very gently work the window out. Depending on what the previous owner did to 'seal' you may have to cut through the silicone or whatever they squirted in there. I used a wide crow bar and just worked around the window a few times to gently 'crack' the glue etc. I only had maybe 6-8 inches of gel coat come up across both windows.My windows are about 18 ft perimeter so I was pretty happy with that. I also had to remove my horn on the starboard side to get the crowbar in there, which was extra bothersome since I had just replaced it last summer and sealed it up real good.
• Once free the whole window slides out. (Picture 2).

Once home I have been prying out the old dried flocking from the frame for the sliding window. The fixed portion is simply laid against the frame from the inside and held in place with the 'glazing'. Where that was has left the butyl tape residue. Everything is 35 years old so it's all dried and cracked.

Once you have the flocking out of the track where the window is when 'open' you can slide the window open and the glass comes out.

Next was scraping what's left behind with mostly mineral spirits to get the residue out from the flock.

I received the stuff from Taylormade in about 3-4 days, right before Christmas so that was pretty impressive. The new flock is VERY flexible compared to what I removed. I had been worried about getting the new flock in place based on how hard it was to get the old out, but it's so pliable I'm sure it will be pretty easy.

My next big part is sourcing replacement 'glass'. Mine is a little crazed and I had a docking incident crack the other window.

Also look for another thread later this winter. I also pulled all 3 hatches and have received new Taylorcraft Ultra III hatches to replace them with.

 

[WaltL]

Thanks, Ron. Very helpful. I wish I could easily get my boat inside & on the hard to do this, but the lake I'm on doesn't even have a Travelift. Both windows are pretty wacked due to previous slapdash "repairs" and I'm sure I haven't helped matters, but trying my best to mitigate water getting into my center/salon bilge area and I suspect most of it is coming from the windows.
This week I'm going to try to use shrink wrap + shrink wrap tape to seal both sides up and see if I can at least stop the leaks until the weather gets warm enough to do complete removal and any necessary gel coat/adhesive work. I don't mind turning wrenches, but this kind of work is definitely not my forte...

 

[Pirate Lady]

i got the plastic covers for the weep holes, maybe this is what you mean by screw covers, not cheap, but not that costly, came quick.

 

[Ron Lime]

Screw cover is the rubber that inlays into the outside of the windows that covers up the installation screws into the hull. I also replaced broken weep covers last year.

In WaltL's post 12/27 you can see in the second picture where the screw cover has receded and exposed a screw.

 

[WaltL]

Walt, the windows you have are made by TaylorMade. You can reach out to them to get a deconstruction drawing and to get the seals. From what I see in your pics the screw cover and flocking are shot.

I spoke with someone at Taylor Made today and I was told that they didn't make the windows for an '85 390 (or any windows for that vintage), but that they did provide the windshields.

So then I call Sea Ray and got a parts list for an '89 off the web site (as far back as they go, but I think these are identical to mine) and those window part #s for show they were manufactured by Taylor Made! So the person I spoke to there had no clue.

I'd like to assume that the parts that Ron has listed above will also fit on 390 windows, but I don't know that for sure and the windows are different as well as glass vs. lexan. As soon as the weather warms up a bit more, I want to pull these things and repair them, but would really like to have most required supplies in place so as to limit time with no windows- the boat is on the water, uncovered.

 

[dwna1a]

Walt the portholes are made from Lexan on mine. My plan for those is to pull one and cut all four. Then do them one at a time, taking my time. I want to be on the hard to do those.

 

[WaltL]

Walt the portholes are made from Lexan on mine. My plan for those is to pull one and cut all four. Then do them one at a time, taking my time. I want to be on the hard to do those.

My windows are also lexan, I think, are yours?

 

[JanPaul]

Hi Walt and Ron I have been reading your posts with great interest. My 1986 390 is set to come out of storage for the 2021 season this week and my priority task is to repair the leaking starboard window. I would be very interested if you had any additional photographs of your experience in removing and repairing your windows Walt. And, did you find the glazing, flocking and d screw cover that Ron found were the same for the 390? and if so how much did you need per window?
I am sorry for trying to take a short cut by piggy backing on your hard work, but you both seem to be on top of this repair so why not ask.

Paul

 

[Ron Lime]

I didn't take too many pictures, but I can tell you that one really important part is you need to drill a hole in the side of the flocking (the U channel the glass slides in) at the weep hole. The new flocking is so fresh rubber that water runs right down it. On my boat there is a slight slope towards the stern, so all that water goes out the top of the flocking, 50% overboard and 50% inboard. Water in that channel (flocking) needs a way to get out. I also had to add a second bit of 'edge' caulking all around the window frame. I thought the 4100 I used to re-attach the window would be enough, if was not.

At this point I'm doing tiny tweaks then waiting for the next rain to see how it's going. I also replaced all my hatches, so I had one bad caulk spot there that I'm waiting to verify at the next rain.

I will look for pictures.