4.5 BCBG Westerbeke generator removal

[trez681]

I have been fighting a non-starting generator for months now and finally resorted to a generator repair guru??? who was unable to help me. I have decided to remove the generator from my 2000 SeaRay 340 Sundancer and would like to know if anybody out there has attempted this? I am hoping all I will have to remove is the exhaust hose on the starboard engine. I know it will be a tight squeeze but if someone has already attempted and knows 100% how much hardware I will have to remove please share.

 

[Golfman25]

What about taking it out in pieces?

 

[PlayDate]

There was a guy on CSR who did this a few years ago. He has not posted for a while but this was the comment:

on my 340 I had to pull off my riser to get the genny out... I can't imagine needing to pull an engine... 2001 340 Sundancer.

@rcknecht​

What is the issue you have with the generator and what has been done to it?

 

[trez681]

There was a guy on CSR who did this a few years ago. He has not posted for a while but this was the comment:

on my 340 I had to pull off my riser to get the genny out... I can't imagine needing to pull an engine... 2001 340 Sundancer.

@rcknecht​

What is the issue you have with the generator and what has been done to it?

I could write a book on all the troubleshooting I have done on this generator. I posted on it a few months back but will summarize since you asked.
The gen will crank forever but hasn't sputtered even once since the problem began. I'm 99% sure it's ignition as I cannot get spark to the plugs. So far I replaced everything in the distributor (igniter, pickup assy, rotor, cap & cover), wires and plugs, both relays, coil (Protronix substitute...not the $450 original) and the battery. I verified spark from the coils on my workbench but can't get spark once installed back in the boat. I understand the shutdowns are bypassed while cranking with both switches activated and I've verified fuel to the carb and even tried a shot of quickstart just to see if it will TRY to sputter (it won't). I tried the overspeed shutdown bypass described in the Westerbeke operators manual which didn't help either. I've also tried manually bypassing the shutdowns with jumpers just in case they aren't bypassed while cranking. Tried starting in the cabin and at the generator. I am getting 12 volts to the coil but there's no spark out of it even if I bypass the distributor and put a wire and plug out of the coil and short the plug to ground.
I know it sounds like a coil issue but why does it spark out of the boat but not in????
The Westerbeke repair man I wanted to have look at it blew me off but he did tell me of an unknown oil temperature shutdown sensor under the belt cover but I've looked and looked and can't find anything.
I'm a 4 hour drive to my boat so I thought if I got it to my shop I would have all winter to figure it
out. Thanks for any suggestions you might have...I'm all ears.

 

[PlayDate]

What you are describing sounds like a wiring issue. Westerbeke has had problems with crimping connectors on certain models.

There are two wires that go to the distributor and coil that should have a crimped connectors on them. It is a failure point that creates the same set of symptoms that you have. Effectively the distributor does not trigger the coil which in turn means no voltage to the plugs.

In your case I would be taking a close look at the 12v feed to the coil. While it might look okay.....I will bet it isn't. I would put 12 volt jumper from the starter + cable directly to the + terminal on the coil. Then your trick of grounding the - terminal will trigger a spark so be careful.

Your wiring diagram should show the wires. We need to get the coil to trigger .....this has nothing to do with the safeties if you have 12v at the coil.

Your Westerbeke buddy is a waste of time and money (hopefully he isn't a friend or family member).

This is a simple test which likely will work. You can start the generator with the jumper in place once you have spark at a plug. Just a word of caution.......it is a good practice to remove the original 12v wire from the coil and insulate the end. You don't want it shorting out or back feeding the control board.

If this checks out then you will need to redo the +12 V wire to the coil. Personally, if this is it......I would run a new wire from the control board to the coil.

 

[trez681]

Thanks for your insite. I've done so much jumping, shorting, checking, swapping etc that I can't remember it all. I seem to remember running a jumper straight from the battery +ve to the coil +ve but don't recall if it was through the distributor or directly to a spark plug and to ground.
I've ordered another coil (Delphi GN 10170) as that was what another CSR member did and said it worked and I'll run the jumpers as you said. The crimped connectors look ok but who knows.

 

[ttmott]

To @PlayDate 's point - first the 12 volts to the coil must not only be 12 volts but also capable to carry the current to the coil. So, during cranking put a good DVM between the coils +12V and chassis ground to see if that 12 volts is correct.
The second thing is to pull the wires (+12 volt and Neg) from the coil and install a bright LED between the wires. Does that LED flash when cranking? It is that negative coil wire that pulses off to discharge the coil. A traditional two wire coil is always energized to "saturate" then to pulse high voltage to the spark plug the negative terminal is disconnected (pulsed off). LED's are polarity sensitive so you might have to reverse it's connection if it doesn't indicate first try.
If the LED is not pulsing off when cranking and that +12 volt is good then there are issues with the triggering device or the electrical connected to that device. I wouldn't think the triggering device (the pickup in the distributor or ignitor) power is part of the shutdown sensor loop but rather powered when the run switch is on.

 

[PlayDate]

Wait a minute.......can you post a picture of your remote switches? Sometimes the Start/Run/Stop switch is in the OFF position. If you are trying to start it at the generator and the remote switch is OFF.....you will have the exact symptoms you are chasing. It will crank all day and will not start.

Some Westerbeke's have a remote harness that can be unplugged at the generator. That is one way to take the Remote Start/Run/Stop switch out of the circuit. That switch has been known to fail and when it does it fails to STOP.

The original switch was momentary START.....released to RUN and was then depressed to OFF when the generator was running to shut it down. It will remain in the OFF position.

The switches on the generator itself are momentary START and OFF with RUN as the default which leads to confusion.

 

[ttmott]

Wait a minute.......can you post a picture of your remote switches? Sometimes the Start/Run/Stop switch is in the OFF position. If you are trying to start it at the generator and the remote switch is OFF.....you will have the exact symptoms you are chasing. It will crank all day and will not start.

Some Westerbeke's have a remote harness that can be unplugged at the generator. That is one way to take the Remote Start/Run/Stop switch out of the circuit. That switch has been known to fail and when it does it fails to STOP.

The original switch was momentary START.....released to RUN and was then depressed to OFF when the generator was running to shut it down. It will remain in the OFF position.

The switches on the generator itself are momentary START and OFF with RUN as the default which leads to confusion.

But, the way Sea Ray wires the ignition "ON", the remote switch must be on to start the Gen locally on the generator. The power to the generator for ignition is routed through the boat's fire suppression system and it is that remote ON switch that closes the relay on the fire suppression module and it is that relay that provides the ignition power for the generator. A nit but important.

 

[PlayDate]

But, the way Sea Ray wires the ignition "ON", the remote switch must be on to start the Gen locally on the generator. The power to the generator for ignition is routed through the boat's fire suppression system and it is that remote ON switch that closes the relay on the fire suppression module and it is that relay that provides the ignition power for the generator. A nit but important.

I don't think it is a nit......the remote switch needs to be in the RUN position to start the generator at the generator. Even then.....gremlins can show up in the remote switch or the fire suppression system if it is wired in.

The only way that I know to take those variables out of the circuit is to unplug/disconnect the remote harness. If he does unplug the harness....he needs to jump two terminals (see page 43 of the Owner's Manual).

I just did a quick check of his Owner's Manual and it does not appear to have the fire suppression module wired in.

 

[trez681]

I do put the remote switch in the run position when I attempt to start at the gen. I've also tried starting remotely...same result.
Not sure if this is important but when I attempt to start remotely I get an oil pressure alarm at the Searay systems monitor at the helm...it beeps. Thought that might indicate an oil pressure sensor issue so I bypassed...still won't start.
Can't remember if I mentioned this is my prior post but I'm also having problems blowing my 8 amp fuse now as well...using a jumper to bypass the fuse. I'll troubleshoot shutdowns next time I make it to the boat.
Thanks all

 

[PlayDate]

The 8 amp fuse blowing.......that is an important detail....which is why I hate showing up in the middle of a story.

The purpose of the 8 amp fuse is to protect the Control Board. Can you describe the circumstances under which it blows? BTW do not use a jumper on that fuse holder unless you want to buy a new control board.

60% of the time it is a chaffed wire that shorts to ground.
10% of the time it is a bad control board
15% of the time it is a bad sensor
20% of the time somebody wired something in wrong.

In regards to the sensor being the problem: https://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/westerbeke-4-5-blowing-8-amp-fuse.89844/

 

[trez681]

Latest update in the ongoing Westerbeke saga.
After 8 months of frustration a glimmer of hope. Installed the Delphi aftermarket coil, replaced the 8 amp fuse holder, re-traced and double- checked the coil to distributor wiring and I got the gen running. Unfortunately now after all the cranking I've got a new problem...an intermittent unidentified knock or rattle from the belt end of the generator as well as an occasional governor surge. I thought I might have trashed the raw water impeller but replaced it even though it was fine.
I don't think I have any water in the cylinders as it did run smooth for a brief period before the knocking started. It doesn't sound like a piston, tappet or bearing knock as it is an intermittent noise.
Anybody come across this problem?

 

[PlayDate]

Congrats on getting it going. Can you post a video?

 

[dwna1a]

Our governor bearings go bad and would make that noise. That may explain the surge as well. Remove the belt and wiggle the pulley, your looking for side to side play.

 

[gcluett]

Latest update in the ongoing Westerbeke saga.
After 8 months of frustration a glimmer of hope. Installed the Delphi aftermarket coil, replaced the 8 amp fuse holder, re-traced and double- checked the coil to distributor wiring and I got the gen running. Unfortunately now after all the cranking I've got a new problem...an intermittent unidentified knock or rattle from the belt end of the generator as well as an occasional governor surge. I thought I might have trashed the raw water impeller but replaced it even though it was fine.
I don't think I have any water in the cylinders as it did run smooth for a brief period before the knocking started. It doesn't sound like a piston, tappet or bearing knock as it is an intermittent noise.
Anybody come across this problem?

Can you show a picture of the 8 amp fuse location? I have a 1999 340 and the starting circuit is dead but I cannot find the 8 amp fuse anywhere on the generator or in the wire harness

 

[trez681]

The location of the 8 amp fuse is right beside the manual start/stop switch right on the generator itself. You can see it in the attached photo but the cap has been removed. (Not sure why but the photo appears upside down in my post but is not in my photo library. Hope you can make it out).