Anyone have opinions on the used market for small cruisers?

[Dave S]

Based on what I see happening here in the Carolinas, trying to sell a used small cruiser such as my 260DA is very difficult at best. My dealer, which has several retail outlets through out the Carolinas, has had the same boats listed for sale for months now. A couple may have been for sale for over a year.

I don't necessarily think it is a pricing issue so much as possibly a lack of customers that want a such a boat. I would be interested in any of your opinions on the matter.

:huh::huh::huh:

 

[bmac]

In a market like this and a good quality boat like yours it's always about the pricing. The market reacts to boats that are priced right, not what the owner (or bank) thinks its worth. If a boat is on the market for a year it means its priced too high or its a dog.

 

[Timeflys]

I think it mirrors what is going on in the economy... middle class is getting squeezed and cannot afford the luxury of boating anymore...in this neck of the woods, not so many 23-30 ft cruisers...lots of big 40+ boats though.

 

[fwebster]

I think the market for boats is regional, up to a point. A nice freshwater 260DA would sell by dark on the coast if it were priced fairly. There is no inventory, certainly no inventory of freshwater boats, and this is the best, next step up for a Sundeck/bow rider/ center console owner who is ready for his first cruiser.

 

[islandhopper00]

I am going to disagree with these statements, and agree with Timeflys and you Dave.

There is plenty of nice freshwater small cruisers on the market here in the Charlotte area. In fact there is a in perfect condition, 07' 240da with trailer listed for asking $37,000.00, and hasn't sold in over a year. I think in our area small cruisers are dead. Last year, I didn't see many coves with overnight cruisers, on any part of the lake. I had all the anchoring spots to myself..........alot.
Seems like everyone that is buying a boat, is buying a pontoon around here.
Showrooms across the area don't have any small cruisers in them. There are plenty of bowriders though.

Also, to own a small cruiser it means owning a large truck, or slip, or dry stack......that means more money, folks just don't want to afford a small cruiser anymore.....around here. But! they don't mind riding in mine for free!! haha

Another trend I have been seeing is that generator and a/c has become a must have option, so, smallish cruisers are out.

 

[islandhopper00]

I think the market for boats is regional, up to a point. A nice freshwater 260DA would sell by dark on the coast if it were priced fairly. There is no inventory, certainly no inventory of freshwater boats, and this is the best, next step up for a Sundeck/bow rider/ center console owner who is ready for his first cruiser.

Frank, what would be a good price on a freshwater, good shape, 06-08 240 or 260da? Just wondering.

 

[Dave S]

There are several deterrents (I believe) that narrow the market areas for small cruisers even if they are freshwater boats. First is a boat without a generator and then secondly are boats that don't have closed cooling. The latter is a deterrent for a salt water boater although the cost to retrofit one with closed cooling is not a lot. The lack of a generator is a big issue as well just as Mike points out. Just the same the boats I am talking about seem to be priced right even when they don't have those options so that still tells me that there are not a lot of folks looking for these type of boats.

I think the same can be said about new small cruisers as well. I don't think there are a lot of customers out there willing to lay out the big bucks for new ones. By comparison, used small cruisers are the bargain of the century.

 

[MonacoMike]

I am going to disagree with these statements, and agree with Timeflys and you Dave.

There is plenty of nice freshwater small cruisers on the market here in the Charlotte area. In fact there is a in perfect condition, 07' 240da with trailer listed for asking $37,000.00, and hasn't sold in over a year. I think in our area small cruisers are dead. Last year, I didn't see many coves with overnight cruisers, on any part of the lake. I had all the anchoring spots to myself..........alot.
Seems like everyone that is buying a boat, is buying a pontoon around here.
Showrooms across the area don't have any small cruisers in them. There are plenty of bowriders though.

Also, to own a small cruiser it means owning a large truck, or slip, or dry stack......that means more money, folks just don't want to afford a small cruiser anymore.....around here. But! they don't mind riding in mine for free!! haha

Another trend I have been seeing is that generator and a/c has become a must have option, so, smallish cruisers are out.

Everthing said here seems to go right along with what I read in the trade sales articles and the value my own boat has lost since purchase.

MM

 

[Tonka Boater]

I am going to disagree with these statements, and agree with Timeflys and you Dave.

There is plenty of nice freshwater small cruisers on the market here in the Charlotte area. In fact there is a in perfect condition, 07' 240da with trailer listed for asking $37,000.00, and hasn't sold in over a year. I think in our area small cruisers are dead. Last year, I didn't see many coves with overnight cruisers, on any part of the lake. I had all the anchoring spots to myself..........alot.
Seems like everyone that is buying a boat, is buying a pontoon around here.
Showrooms across the area don't have any small cruisers in them. There are plenty of bowriders though.

Also, to own a small cruiser it means owning a large truck, or slip, or dry stack......that means more money, folks just don't want to afford a small cruiser anymore.....around here. But! they don't mind riding in mine for free!! haha

Another trend I have been seeing is that generator and a/c has become a must have option, so, smallish cruisers are out.

I think you kind of made Frank's argument that the market for boats is regional. I search for boats daily (finally nabbed one, btw) and I see the 240DA seems to be moving fairly quickly while the 260's are sitting forever. The 260 in our area is a tough price point. 240's are under $40k but older 280DA's (early-mid 2000's) are asking in the $60's. The 260's are asking in the $50's. When you test drive a 280 back to back with the 260...the 280 will win for young families. Also, when you start talking about a used 260DA in the $50's, it makes a brand new 230SLX in the low $60's look very attractive. IMHO, the 260's up here need to be in the $40's....especially considering your points about vehicles, slips, etc. You can tow a 2014 230SLX with most full size SUVs.

 

[Kendall]

Dave:

I see several overpriced 260's out there and then I see several well priced ones but none seem to move. I had considered selling mine and using my buddy's 50' in Charleston but for what I could get I can't buy anything else close to the price for the lake. My 260 has most all options and a trailer but a new Stingray 220 cost more???

We love our little cruiser and she is pretty self sufficient. Our typical hot summer day on the lake consist of putting all the kids from the bowriders who are crying about the heat in the cabin with the AC so us parents can hang out... I end up being the blender operator for the same reason (120V)...

I have taken "Island Girl" to the Bahamas twice and stayed on the hook when needed. The ability to trailer and act like a real cruiser cannot be duplicated at this price range.

 

[islandhopper00]

I think you kind of made Frank's argument that the market for boats is regional. I search for boats daily (finally nabbed one, btw) and I see the 240DA seems to be moving fairly quickly while the 260's are sitting forever. The 260 in our area is a tough price point. 240's are under $40k but older 280DA's (early-mid 2000's) are asking in the $60's. The 260's are asking in the $50's. When you test drive a 280 back to back with the 260...the 280 will win for young families. Also, when you start talking about a used 260DA in the $50's, it makes a brand new 230SLX in the low $60's look very attractive. IMHO, the 260's up here need to be in the $40's....especially considering your points about vehicles, slips, etc. You can tow a 2014 230SLX with most full size SUVs.

I agree about the regional part, but no inventory, or sell by dark, not so much. That's why I asked Frank his opinion on fair pricing.

 

[Tonka Boater]

The ability to trailer and act like a real cruiser cannot be duplicated at this price range.

Great description that might be overlooked by most buyers.

You also make another great point....the vast majority of 260's don't have genny's but they are very common on 280's which makes the price point all that more important. When I had my 280 there was a 260 for sale 2 slips down....same year and about identical to mine in all ways possible. The prospective buyer asked to tour mine one day while I was cleaning it as a way to compare and he ended buying 280 because it was close in price to the 260 and had a gen. The 260 is a great boat but it's in a tough range.

 

[dpmulvey]

The economy is in the tank.....period. I see people that used to assist as the local food shelter on the other side of the line now. People are still reeling from the housing and banking debacle of several years ago. This administration is chasing business off the shore through insane tax rates and the EPA and IRS are completely out of control.

The job market is a mess. What jobs that have been created are for the most part a step backwards for a lot of folks who are now worried about eating, let alone retiring. Boating is a distant dream. The fact fiberglass is a petrol byproduct doesn't help. As of today, the true employment rate is 72.3%. The asshats in DC are high fiving each other as that is the highest rate since 2009. However, the flip side of that coin is the true unemployment rate is 27.7%. That's worse than the Great Depression. Inflation figures do not count gas and food prices into the index. The houses of congress have an approval rating of 6%. We have the government the majority of the people wanted. I don't like it, but it is what it is. Folks I talk to that are my age are starting to think the Carter years were great! If you are old enough to remember them, you know just how bad some things are out there for some folks.

For those who can afford this pastime, I am seeing more smaller trailer boats in the mix. Enjoy a day on the water and head home. No slip fees..... I also see more companies going for the large bow riders. Again, day trips and head home. Have the boat in a boatel and save on insurance and outdoor wear.

I turned 59 a few weeks ago. Let's say I have 20 years left. Shy of an all out world war where we win and take the spoils with us, the odds are I will never see a solid stable marketplace where people are comfortable in a boat/RV/Country Club........

 

[islandhopper00]

The economy is in the tank.....period. I see people that used to assist as the local food shelter on the other side of the line now. People are still reeling from the housing and banking debacle of several years ago. This administration is chasing business off the shore through insane tax rates and the EPA and IRS are completely out of control.

The job market is a mess. What jobs that have been created are for the most part a step backwards for a lot of folks who are now worried about eating, let alone retiring. Boating is a distant dream. The fact fiberglass is a petrol byproduct doesn't help. As of today, the true employment rate is 72.3%. The asshats in DC are high fiving each other as that is the highest rate since 2009. However, the flip side of that coin is the true unemployment rate is 27.7%. That's worse than the Great Depression. Inflation figures do not count gas and food prices into the index. The houses of congress have an approval rating of 6%. We have the government the majority of the people wanted. I don't like it, but it is what it is. Folks I talk to that are my age are starting to think the Carter years were great! If you are old enough to remember them, you know just how bad some things are out there for some folks.

For those who can afford this pastime, I am seeing more smaller trailer boats in the mix. Enjoy a day on the water and head home. No slip fees..... I also see more companies going for the large bow riders. Again, day trips and head home. Have the boat in a boatel and save on insurance and outdoor wear.

I turned 59 a few weeks ago. Let's say I have 20 years left. Shy of an all out world war where we win and take the spoils with us, the odds are I will never see a solid stable marketplace where people are comfortable in a boat/RV/Country Club........

I fear the truth in your writings................I'm a 48yo!

 

[Newman]

I want to add a point of view from a smaller segment of CSR; the younger crowds (under 35). I work 45+ hours every week, college educated, and I'm single with no kids. To put it simply: I can't afford a cruiser. The slip fees alone would probably put me out of the market not to mention proper maintenance and fuel. I feel like, out of the people I know in my age range, I'm one of the more financially stable households. I'm pretty confident in my position being here a year from now but a lot of friends are not that confident. Those folks would have a hard time justify another payment on a recreational item. To be honest, I struggle with justifying the cost of keeping my bow-rider and it is paid off. Part of me feels like I would be better off investing those funds for my future. [Note: I'm not complaining about what I don't have. I'm happy to have a job and a place to live!]

So it seems everyone, to an extent, is right in this thread. Desire, age, economy, region all take their toll. Just my opinion.

 

[MonacoMike]

An article on the subject: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...ed-as-americans-downsize-fleets-ecopulse.html

Interesting comments:

“What really stands out in the economic recovery thus far is that demand for smaller boats is coming back pretty nicely,” said Michael Swartz, an analyst with SunTrust Banks Inc. (STI) in Atlanta. That’s partly because “very lax” lending standards before the recession have become more restrictive, so people are buying what they can afford, he said."

"Many buyers are “trading down” to less expensive alternatives -- including pontoons and aluminum fishing craft -- both of which have experienced strong customer interest recently, Swartz said. Brunswick Corp. (BC), the leading U.S. boat manufacturer, has responded by increasing its production of these vessels, he said."

"Brunswick, based in Lake Forest, Illinois, has successfully expanded its offerings of smaller, less expensive watercraft -- a category that’s started to recover -- while MarineMax is largely dedicated to stocking the largest boats, sales of which haven’t suffered as much as their mid-sized counterparts, he said. “These companies have been rejiggering their portfolios to meet the shift in demand from consumers.”

This is on the average age of buyers by type of boat and brand: http://www.boatingindustry.com/features/2013/06/14/average-age-varies-greatly-by-segment-brand/

MM

 

[sdarc]

I agree with the answers and ideas given. Basically though the market in the lakes of the Carolinas, Norman, Wylie, etc. is small. cruisers are not the norm unless people use them as condos like I did. There are fewer like Mike who trailer the boat either to the lake like Mike to the coast or Florida. I was fortunate to sell both my cruisers. One for a little less than I would have liked but that was the market and I didn't need 2 cruisers. The other was brokered with the dealer I'm sure you are referring to. Our area is not an easy market. Too many day boaters and wake boarders.

 

[velooce]

I fear the truth in your writings................I'm a 48yo!

In the Northwest there appears to be a lot of downsizing from 42'-60' range and larger down to 28' - 36' range as there costs are exponential to maintain and operate the larger vessels in the new economy. I am thinking your caught in a odd size. We seem to get a lot of inquiries of interest from people while at docks that are in the downsizing mode. Just my2 cents

 

[MonacoMike]

All we are talking about is driven by how folks feel about the economy, this Wall Street Journal poll data runs right up that alley. Some quotes:

"Meanwhile, the latest NBC/Wall Street Journal poll finds that 57% of Americans believe the U.S. is still in recession."

"There is another reason so few Americans believe that the recession has ended: The standard of living for most people has eroded. Median household income declined by 1.6% in 2008 and 2.6% in 2009. But after the official end of the recession, it continued to fall—by 2.3% in 2010 and 2.5% in 2011—before stabilizing in 2012. Analysis of more recent data by Sentier Research indicates that median household income grew only marginally in 2013"

"The bottom line: As of the end of 2013, median household income was 4.7% lower than in June 2009, the official end of the recession; 6.2% lower than in December 2007, the official beginning of the recession; and 7.5% lower than in January 2000. Median household income today is barely higher than it was a quarter-century ago, in 1989."

"During the Cold War, Americans were sustained by the belief—and the fact—that we were all in it together. And we were: In 1967, according to the Census Bureau, the top 5% of the U.S. population received 17% of national income, and so did the middle fifth. Nearly two decades later, in 1984, little had changed: The top 5% of Americans received 17% of national income, the middle fifth, 16%.

Today in the post-Cold War era, Americans have less reason to feel the we're-all-in-this-together sense of national purpose. The top 5% receives 22%, the middle fifth only 14%. If average Americans no longer believe that the economy works for them, it's hard to argue with them."


http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424052702303563304579446970795924880.html

MM

 

[skolbe]

My parents 290 Amberjack has been getting a lot of calls. I suspect it will be sold in the next month or two. If not this month.