Are all political views welcome in this forum?

[comsnark]

sorry dude... that analysis includes the increase in population going on Social Security as well as inflation...

A "bill" is a "contract" also... point is, it's not a "cut"... It's a great example.

So. . .what you are saying is that if I sign a contract to have a home built for $200,000; then I can decide to change the total to $100,000 at the end? Cool.


I suspect Congress changing the budget for next year is a bit different than a standard contract. If I am expecting an entitlement or a grant or a working on a contract and Congress passes a budget ending the handout. . .then I am SOL.

If Congress eliminates funding for a project I am working on, and I am working under a contract that has termination clauses, then I am legally owed the termination payments. That is a fundamental difference.

Regarding the SS analysis: I think I need to see a reference for that one.


Boy. . .I could use a beer!

 

[Four Suns]

So. . .what you are saying is that if I sign a contract to have a home built for $200,000; then I can decide to change the total to $100,000 at the end? Cool.

See... that's the kind of liberal horsesh!t that gets thrown out there. Your example is a cut... My example is an increase but not as originally anticipated. To use an "Obama-ism"... it's "bending the cost curve down." And we are talking salaries and entitlements... not fixed goods.

For instance. . .you can't have a kid and budget to feed the kid this year, but then decide to NOT feed the child next year.

Again... typical come back for pointing this out. In my example, if year 1 funding is $10M and year 2 funding is $15M and not $20M, that is a $5M increase and NOT and $5M decrease from year 1... so how exactly did increasing the spending "NOT feed the child next year as you state?" Oh.. it doesn't... it actually increases the children being fed by 50% instead of 100%... but it sure sounds good.

Sorta like my mother saying she "pays the same tax" as me... because that's what she heard on TV.

Instead of going to get a beer, go try building a company. And make sure you are not "inept" and can project your revenues out 5 years to the third decimal point so you can sign a labor contract.

 

[Four Suns]

Regarding the SS analysis: I think I need to see a reference for that one.

Go to 3:50 on the video... and listen.

Frankly, I have no issue with raising the retirement age and cutting social security. It's totally absurd that people think they can pay in $30,000 into a system over their lifetime and pull out $500,000 during the course of their retirement? Isn't there some sort of saying about "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is". The comments of "I paid into it so I deserve it" are fine... and you should get back your money with a reasonable return... but expecting a 15% APR on your paid in earnings over 40 years while allowing the government to spend it all seems a little out of whack...

 

[comsnark]

We are not as far apart in viewpoint as you are making it out to be.

I am not taking a liberal viewpoint: I am taking a hard fiscal conservative viewpoint. That viewpoint is "Honor the contracts you have signed". If you sign up for something you can't deliver -> suffer the consequences.

The point I am making is that if a buisness is not sure that it will have revenues to support the cost of a labor contract over five years; then managment should not sign the contract. If they do. . then they are taking a business risk. If everything comes up roses. . the business wins, because the labor costs were set (low?) up front. If everything comes up rotten. . .the business loses.

A variable rate mortage is exactly the same. The mortgage company gets an increase in payment over time. If the increase is 150% under the terms of the contract, the homeowner doesn't have the option to say "times are tough - we are going to pay an increase of 50%". Doesn't work that way.

People need to take responsibility for what they sign. A business needs to take responsibility for the contract signed with employees. A homeowner needs to take responsibility for the contract signed with a mortgage lender. Parents needs to take responsibility for feeding the five kids they produce.

And. . I thinking about this more, the Government should be held to the same standard.

The problem is that *nobody* wants to honor the stupid, ill-conceived, non-sensical commitments they have agreed to meet. When times gets tough, they simply make noise about the unfairness of the deal and try to weasel out of their commitments.

Business's don't want (or can't) to pay labor contracts to which they agreed.
Homeowners don't want (or can't) to pay their mortgages to which they agreed.
People look for government handouts to feed kids that they knew they wouldn't have the money to support.
Government can't fund all the pork barrel programs and entittlements they start.

See. . I have a car payment right now. I would not *think* of not making that payment, because I have agreed to make that payment. If I lose my job later today. . I am still making that payment on Nov 1st. And December 1st. And every month till the loan is paid. I thought about all that before I signed the contract.

- - - - - -

Government is not the same: entitlements are *not* really contracts. Laws granting benifits are passed unilaterally by the gooberment, and can be withdrawn unilaterally the same way. If the budget changes, you don't sue the goverment for breach of contract.

If a company that has a labor contract with employees and doesn't pay under the terms of the agreement: You sure bet that the company is in breach of contract.

 

[MaddyDean]

Congress is not allowed to Budget to more than 1-year.

I am not allowed to budget for more than 1-year at work

When congress projects the second and third year, etc...it is that--a projection

I am required to do the same at work. I have to project out 5-years. There is no guarantee that I am getting what I projected. it is just that, a projection. By my company approving this year’s budget in no way means that they approved my projections.

Therefore, if the entitlement projected 10-mil more but only got 5-mil more--it is still an increase.

 

[Jack F]

I just received this in an email, I think Mr. Huber sums things up pretty well.

What Has America Become by Ken Huber of Tawas City


Editor,
Has America become the land of special interest and home of the double standard?
Lets see: if we lie to the Congress, it's a felony and if the Congress lies to us its just politics; if we dislike a black person, we're racist and if a black person dislikes whites, its their 1st Amendment right; the government spends millions to rehabilitate criminals and they do almost nothing for the victims; in public schools you can teach that homosexuality is OK, but you better not use the word God in the process; you can kill an unborn child, but it is wrong to execute a mass murderer; we don't burn books in America, we now rewrite them; we got rid of communist and socialist threats by renaming them progressive; we are unable to close our border with Mexico, but have no problem protecting the 38th parallel in Korea; if you protest against President Obama's policies you're a terrorist, but if you burned an American flag or George Bush in effigy it was your 1st Amendment right.
You can have pornography on TV or the internet, but you better not put a nativity scene in a public park during Christmas; we have eliminated all criminals in America, they are now called sick people; we can use a human fetus for medical research, but it is wrong to use an animal.
We take money from those who work hard for it and give it to those who don't want to work; we all support the Constitution, but only when it supports our political ideology; we still have freedom of speech, but only if we are being politically correct; parenting has been replaced with Ritalin and video games; the land of opportunity is now the land of hand outs; the similarity between Hurricane Katrina and the gulf oil spill is that neither president did anything to help.
And how do we handle a major crisis today? The government appoints a committee to determine who's at fault, then threatens them, passes a law, raises our taxes; tells us the problem is solved so they can get back to their reelection campaign.
What has happened to the land of the free and home of the brave?
- Ken Huber
Tawas City

 

[Four Suns]

That's creepy... I grew up in Tawas... population 2500 and 60 miles to the closest shopping center...

That attitude must come from something in the water there... wait! It's a boating community! Arrest him and take his stuff away! Bastard!

 

[Jack F]

I think he nailed it, that’s the way a lot of people I know feel.

 

[BlewByYou88]

You guys are great! :smt038 I'm glad I own a Sea Ray! :smt001