"Oh, you have diesels?" "You don't..." Why did you..."

[Maybe A Dancer]

Owned a Trojan International 10 meter for 21 years.

Onan Gas genny died in year 2.

Replaced it with a NextGen diesel on a separate fuel tank. This genny is certified to operate in a gas environment.

in year 4 my big block Crusader 454's (4 bolt mains) were seeing some issues.

Looked at rebuilds

then considered the new Crusader Captains Choice NEW 8.1's where I would get all new starter, alternator, fuel injection, hoses, distributor, fuel pump, trans and heat exchanger - - basically EVERYTHING.

I looked at THE DIFFERENCE in cost, not that much. (this was 2005)

Then the dealer informed me due to the length of my shafts, I'd need bigger shafts and props to do this job right, as well as seacocks and strainers. Well, adding those costs to the new Crusaders got me closer to Diesel territory, so I started down that road. Only 2 choices would meet the engine room height requirement. Cummins was too tall leaving only the Volvo computerized model or the Yanmar mechanical diesel. I chose the Yanmars.

The end result was a boat that went from a most economical cruise of 13-15 kts to a most economical cruise of 21-24 kts and close to DOUBLE the range.

So we could go faster and farther at far less cost.

What this did was to open up all sorts of destinations to us - even for a day trip.

A run to Key West with the gas engines required a fuel stop at Naples/Marco island. Speed and the time taken for that stop translated into a 2 day requirement to get to Key West, equating to two overnights and 4 days of travel

With the Yanmars, we'd depart at 6 AM and arrive at 2 PM and arrive with an amazing amount of fuel still in the tank.

Those diesels never ever failed to start, never had the choke stick open or closed, the genny always started and nothing, NOTHING ever went BOOM.

All I need is clean fuel, air and enough battery power. These diesels, genny included consistently start on the first crank.

The running attitude of the boat changed dramatically, as the larger props and torque provided a tremendous increase in lift. Interestingly, use of the tabs had zero effect on SOG.

Expensive, yes, however when factored over 21 years of ownership, with a residual value way higher than any similar powered gas boat, the benefits, safety and economy made it all make perfect sense.

Based on my own experience, I'd never own a gas boat again, never own a Pod boat and never own a computer controlled diesel in a saltwater marine environment.

Old school works well for me.

They know me there.

Between that and my bridge clearance requirement, that's how I ended up with the 450DA 3126 CAT powered boat.

And........................

BEST !

RWS

 

[ttmott]

So I will say this, diesels don't belong in everything and are not as great as people make them out to be. The require ALOT of maintenance, pre-emptive care and the like. That said I won't own a boat without them.

Oh Orlando - I don't subscribe to that at all. Sure parts are more but if the engine is taken care of fewer parts are required; especially in a salt water environment. Even true on the 2 strokes like you have.
So let's lay the field out and baseline a comparison on an older (late 90's) 370DA one with gasoline (7.4's) and one with diesel (3116's). Let's also say that both boats were properly maintained. I can assuridly say that ten years later the diesel boat not only would be no more to maintain but the resale value significantly higher (going in price is higher so that's a wash).

Here is what it comes down to - how the boat is used, what fuel is available, and what service is local. You must agree that any long trips prefer diesel.

Plus let's not forget that the ladies dig diesel boats. It's that Chiwawa vs Pit Bull thing.
And as far as @mrsrobinson goes, I wouldn't worry about the penis envy going on around ya.
As an edit - I'm in the land of Hatteras - Sea Ray is a "substandard" boat heavily knocked by my friends who own Hatteras, but I'll tell you that I have the nicest best running boat out of the bunch. In the end it is all in good humor especially when I'm in Key West a day before them.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Oñuú

I like the way @Nater Potater thinks…if I had diesels, my boat would be bigger! Lol. My wife and I have had four SeaRays and we’re poor, always bought used. Loved EVERY one of them to death. Cleaned, polished, repaired….loved boating! We actually made money on two of them after using them for years because of the care we gave them. All of this blah, blah is to say I don’t think it matters a tinker’s damn whether you have gassers or diesels. Do ya love boating? In the immortal words of Kenny Chesney….’Can’t we all just get along?!’ I can’t afford diesels, I’m thrilled for you if you can, let’s both wish each other a great boating season!

THIS!

 

[mrsrobinson]

I didn't mean to turn this thread into a which one is better, but...
It was really about why do the gas boaters have to tell me how great theirs are, why they bought them... For some reason they feel the need to justify to me why their gas engines are better.

 

[royalpiper]

At the rate it is going I fear the dinosaur boats will be illegal. We may be out of a hobby

It's coming..agreed.

 

[Skybolt]

Oh Orlando - I don't subscribe to that at all. Sure parts are more but if the engine is taken care of fewer parts are required; especially in a salt water environment. Even true on the 2 strokes like you have.
So let's lay the field out and baseline a comparison on an older (late 90's) 370DA one with gasoline (7.4's) and one with diesel (3116's). Let's also say that both boats were properly maintained. I can assuridly say that ten years later the diesel boat not only would be no more to maintain but the resale value significantly higher (going in price is higher so that's a wash).

Here is what it comes down to - how the boat is used, what fuel is available, and what service is local. You must agree that any long trips prefer diesel.

Plus let's not forget that the ladies dig diesel boats. It's that Chiwawa vs Pit Bull thing.
And as far as @mrsrobinson goes, I wouldn't worry about the penis envy going on around ya.
As an edit - I'm in the land of Hatteras - Sea Ray is a "substandard" boat heavily knocked by my friends who own Hatteras, but I'll tell you that I have the nicest best running boat out of the bunch. In the end it is all in good humor especially when I'm in Key West a day before them.

Tom, please don't misunderstand my comment. I think diesels are absolutely the way to go. Especially if boating is a way of life for someone. Diesels afford a bigger boat as mentioned and hold their value, no doubt.

The maintenance of diesels can't be compared to gas engines. There so much more that needs to be kept up on. Gas engines are way more forgiving then any diesel is. Having owned both and have ran many, wouldn't anything else.

My point was and still is, gas engines have their place and in smaller boats can be a great choice.

Funny you mention Hatteras, I grew up on them. Ran many off shore fishing etc. Lived on one for two years as a kid. The old ones were heavier then a tank and virtually indestructible. All powered by Detroit's and a big reason why I bought the boat I have now.

While Sea Ray may be the top of the heap for express boats and the like, most Sport fish boats are in a league of there own and can't be compared to a Sea Ray. My close friend has an Ocean 48 and he calls Sea Rays - Sea Roaches. Anyone with a MY he doesn't even consider them as having a boat. Tough mentality at times. I think Sea Rays have there place in boating especially one like yours. I would take your boat over an Ocean any day of the week.

 

[Skybolt]

... Based on my own experience, I'd never own a gas boat again, never own a Pod boat and never own a computer controlled diesel in a saltwater marine environment.

Old school works well for me. ...

I could not agree more and that is why I have what I have. Comparably easier to fix and converted over to digital I have the best of both worlds.

 

[b_arrington]

I was shocked at the performance difference of diesel vs gas. The prop is so much bigger you have to be really careful around the dock. My gas boat did about 2 mph at idle. My diesel does 5.5-6 mph. Getting on plane is also zero drama - move the throttle and that’s it. My gas boat I had to adjust the out drive trim, deploy tabs, move throttle aaaaaand wait, especially with a fuller load.

I think maybe naysayers 1) don’t get the performance difference, or 2) may be a bit envious.

A big reason I love mine is told from this pic. Single engine diesel on a 37 foot boat, hitting 30 mph at just below cruise power.

 

[ttmott]

I could not agree more and that is why I have what I have. Comparably easier to fix and converted over to digital I have the best of both worlds.

Hmmm
You can't purchase any boat that the engines aren't laced with electronics after 2003. That argument is a non-starter but if that is where you are then that is where you are.
Consider trucks crossing the salt laden roads in the mid-west. A half million miles later.....

 

[Yendor]

Interesting thread . . .
A number of different, and IMHO, mostly all entirely correct responses from different viewpoints, especially the "penis envy perspective". There is more truth there, than any of them would ever care to admit.

As a casual observer, I don't think those type of gas burners are any different than the majority of folks except for one thing . . . they own boats. Seems as if most people can go on all day about why they initially made, and then continue to support, a regrettable decision, if you'll listen to them that long.

To a casual observer such as myself, this endless list of justifications sounds like excuses. This premise is nearly universal in application; why they dropped out of school, or why they didn't pay their taxes, or why they stay with an abusive spouse, or why they had to quit their job, or why they bought a gas powered boat. They are trying to convince themselves, not you.

. . . why do the gas boaters have to tell me how great theirs are, why they bought them... For some reason they feel the need to justify to me why their gas engines are better.

My canned 'across the board' response anymore is "Who are you trying to convince? I don't have a horse it that race. It sounds like you're really trying to convince yourself."

That generally sets them back long enough for me to make a graceful exit.

 

[ttmott]

My canned 'across the board' response anymore is "Who are you trying to convince? I don't have a horse it that race. It sounds like you're really trying to convince yourself."

Or, like I've done, open my big mouth in the wrong crowd and suffered the wrath...

 

[mrsrobinson]

Interesting thread . . .
A number of different, and IMHO, mostly all entirely correct responses from different viewpoints, especially the "penis envy perspective". There is more truth there, than any of them would ever care to admit.

As a casual observer, I don't think those type of gas burners are any different than the majority of folks except for one thing . . . they own boats. Seems as if most people can go on all day about why they initially made, and then continue to support, a regrettable decision, if you'll listen to them that long.

To a casual observer such as myself, this endless list of justifications sounds like excuses. This premise is nearly universal in application; why they dropped out of school, or why they didn't pay their taxes, or why they stay with an abusive spouse, or why they had to quit their job, or why they bought a gas powered boat. They are trying to convince themselves, not you.



My canned 'across the board' response anymore is "Who are you trying to convince? I don't have a horse it that race. It sounds like you're really trying to convince yourself."

That generally sets them back long enough for me to make a graceful exit.

Well said

 

[Skybolt]

Or, like I've done, open my big mouth in the wrong crowd and suffered the wrath...

I am right there with you almost every day it seems.

 

[bobeast]

I didn't mean to turn this thread into a which one is better, but...
It was really about why do the gas boaters have to tell me how great theirs are, why they bought them... For some reason they feel the need to justify to me why their gas engines are better.

What did you think would happen?

 

[ttmott]

I think you’re joking but I disagree. There is a size/weight of boat that the diesels make better operational sense, and are more economical. However, everybody needs to analyze their boating to see if the economics actually make sense for their mission (I like the diesel option in my boat for the extended range).

I like the 5.7s, 7.4s and the 8.1 engines, and in the right boat/application, all are fantastic! Getting into the 40-45+ boats, the diesels make better sense (for most missions).

Ooooo - I don't know Dave - nirvana would be a 26 foot boat with twin Kabota's. Just say'n

 

[mrsrobinson]

Then the dealer informed me due to the length of my shafts, I'd need bigger shafts and props to do this job right

Another penis/diesel envy jab?

 

[Jaybeaux]

Well @mrsrobinson , if you didn't have the diesels, we wouldn't have extended the invitation to raft up next Monday. Just saying . But as the owner of @Blueone future boat, I say welcome. Come hang with the big boys.

Jaybeaux

 

[jmcdboater]

Owned a Trojan International 10 meter for 21 years.

Onan Gas genny died in year 2.

Replaced it with a NextGen diesel on a separate fuel tank. This genny is certified to operate in a gas environment.

in year 4 my big block Crusader 454's (4 bolt mains) were seeing some issues.

Looked at rebuilds

then considered the new Crusader Captains Choice NEW 8.1's where I would get all new starter, alternator, fuel injection, hoses, distributor, fuel pump, trans and heat exchanger - - basically EVERYTHING.

I looked at THE DIFFERENCE in cost, not that much. (this was 2005)

Then the dealer informed me due to the length of my shafts, I'd need bigger shafts and props to do this job right, as well as seacocks and strainers. Well, adding those costs to the new Crusaders got me closer to Diesel territory, so I started down that road. Only 2 choices would meet the engine room height requirement. Cummins was too tall leaving only the Volvo computerized model or the Yanmar mechanical diesel. I chose the Yanmars.

The end result was a boat that went from a most economical cruise of 13-15 kts to a most economical cruise of 21-24 kts and close to DOUBLE the range.

So we could go faster and farther at far less cost.

What this did was to open up all sorts of destinations to us - even for a day trip.

A run to Key West with the gas engines required a fuel stop at Naples/Marco island. Speed and the time taken for that stop translated into a 2 day requirement to get to Key West, equating to two overnights and 4 days of travel

With the Yanmars, we'd depart at 6 AM and arrive at 2 PM and arrive with an amazing amount of fuel still in the tank.

Those diesels never ever failed to start, never had the choke stick open or closed, the genny always started and nothing, NOTHING ever went BOOM.

All I need is clean fuel, air and enough battery power. These diesels, genny included consistently start on the first crank.

The running attitude of the boat changed dramatically, as the larger props and torque provided a tremendous increase in lift. Interestingly, use of the tabs had zero effect on SOG.

Expensive, yes, however when factored over 21 years of ownership, with a residual value way higher than any similar powered gas boat, the benefits, safety and economy made it all make perfect sense.

Based on my own experience, I'd never own a gas boat again, never own a Pod boat and never own a computer controlled diesel in a saltwater marine environment.

Old school works well for me.

They know me there.

Between that and my bridge clearance requirement, that's how I ended up with the 450DA 3126 CAT powered boat.

And........................

View attachment 146742

BEST !

RWS

Very interesting story, honestly, and the time and money savings are sure great! I respectfully add that while I don’t have the $ to do it your way, I can ABSOLUTELY guarantee you that my family has lived and loved boating just as much as yours!

 

[mrsrobinson]

I was invited to another overnight raft up, I know gas boats will be there, and everyone will be running their generators since it's going to be hot this weekend. That's one reason I may go but not spend the night.

 

[mrsrobinson]

The maintenance costs debate of gas vs diesels for a 38ish to 42ish length boat is an interesting one. I have only had my diesels for 1.5 seasons. Labor costs is zero as I have done all the service/maintenance, similar service to what I did on my previous gas engines. Parts, I don't personally see a difference.

The gas 380s I looked at ALL had some sort of history with engine failure. Same for the gas Cruisers Yachts 370s I looked at. The gas 380 I looked at the same day, before looking at my current boat, was on it's 3rd 7.4. The current engine was a reman, installed by the owner, obviously to save money. The broker was trying to convince me how great that was, value added for me. Two of the 370s I looked at had compression issues, multiple sets of risers/manifolds, etc. Otherwise they showed very well.

When I walked onto this diesel 380, saw how well it showed AND it had diesels, I was sold. Remember, I was not looking for a diesel boat. I wanted the 8.1s having had 7.4s in the past. The price was not that much more IMO, considering I saw this as a long term boat/investment. I did my research (a lot here) made a fair offer that they accepted, and bought the boat.

I giggle and grin every time I press the start button, and they START, quickly, with no issues. And now I giggle and grin seeing the costs of diesel is less than gas, and my burn rate is lower than gas. And I am using the boat a lot more than my previous gas boats, I am not thinking about the burn rate, costs, will it start tomorrow, etc.