Raymarine MFD won't recognize fuel sensor

[Halfhitch]

I put a Raymarine e127 MFD in my boat awhile back. My Mercury outboards are too old to provide fuel info on the N2K backbone. I have fuel sensors that provide flow data to a Lowrance device. These sensors show up on the "Device List" on the MFD but the Fuel Management page says "need engine info to compute Data". I'm hoping someone knows if it's possible to get the MFD to use the info from the sensors and how to get it to use the sensors in the device list for it's data.

 

[Skybolt]

... I'm hoping someone knows if it's possible to get the MFD to use the info from the sensors and how to get it to use the sensors in the device list for it's data.

There is a difference between tank levels and fuel management PGN's with NMEA 2000. Fuel management does not use tank levels for the most part and needs fuel flow sensor(s). Some of the newer N2K MFD's can use tank levels for fuel remaining. Maretron can do this with their display(s), but not sure if Raymarine can with their older displays. I am still struggling to get Garmin's latest to do this. So I use the Maretron DSM410(s) which work great for all of this.

This has been a very sticky point with me, since Maretron does exactly what Garmin should do but doesn't. In some cases they don't even use tank levels for current fuel level in fuel management.

 

[Halfhitch]

Thanks SKybolt, I will check and see if I can find an option to use fuel flow for computation.

 

[ocgrant]

I don’t think Raymarine has a data box that can formulate that. Call them is your best bet.

 

[Halfhitch]

It looks like I will have to just use that old dinosaur method. The fuel gauge.

 

[KevinC]

It looks like I will have to just use that old dinosaur method. The fuel gauge.

If you're looking to get fuel tank levels maybe you could install an analog to n2k gateway and put the tank levels on your display.

-Kevin

 

[Halfhitch]

What I was hoping is for the Raymarine to read the data from the aftermarket fuel flow sensors. I would think that since it shows the sensors on the device list and all the info about them, that it could actually read their output. When I click on the fuel management page it says it is not receiving engine data but I can find no option to get it to choose the sensors it shows in the device list for its data source.

 

[ttmott]

There is a difference between tank levels and fuel management PGN's with NMEA 2000. Fuel management does not use tank levels for the most part and needs fuel flow sensor(s). Some of the newer N2K MFD's can use tank levels for fuel remaining. Maretron can do this with their display(s), but not sure if Raymarine can with their older displays. I am still struggling to get Garmin's latest to do this. So I use the Maretron DSM410(s) which work great for all of this.

This has been a very sticky point with me, since Maretron does exactly what Garmin should do but doesn't. In some cases they don't even use tank levels for current fuel level in fuel management.

If you have the instruments and PGN 127489 in Dynamic engine parameters are being transmitted on the network then Garmin should calculate. I do not know how Raymarine does this. But to the point - I cannot seem to get the data to show on my Garmin but it shows correctly on the VV7. The following is from the Garmin technical web site.

 

[alnav]

There is a difference between tank levels and fuel management PGN's with NMEA 2000. Fuel management does not use tank levels for the most part and needs fuel flow sensor(s). Some of the newer N2K MFD's can use tank levels for fuel remaining. Maretron can do this with their display(s), but not sure if Raymarine can with their older displays. I am still struggling to get Garmin's latest to do this. So I use the Maretron DSM410(s) which work great for all of this.

This has been a very sticky point with me, since Maretron does exactly what Garmin should do but doesn't. In some cases they don't even use tank levels for current fuel level in fuel management.

Orlando, did you try to adjust this setting:

I believe the Fuel Tank option is new as of one of the winter Garmin software updates.

 

[Skybolt]

What I was hoping is for the Raymarine to read the data from the aftermarket fuel flow sensors. I would think that since it shows the sensors on the device list and all the info about them, that it could actually read their output. When I click on the fuel management page it says it is not receiving engine data but I can find no option to get it to choose the sensors it shows in the device list for its data source.

What flow sensors do you have? Are they NMEA 2000 compliant and do they populate the 127489 PGN correctly? Take a look at the specs or post what sensors they are and we can take a look and see.

Here is the info from the RM support site: https://forum.raymarine.com/showthread.php?tid=6833

 

[Skybolt]

@ttmott and @alnav - thanks

Tom on the Garmin in the fuel management screen is what I am referring too. To Al's point with the new firmware Garmin does show Total Fuel Remaining but does not populate the remaining for individual tanks and nothing on the fuel management screen and only in individual data bars that would be on the chart screens etc. I would have thought Garmin would use that data correctly in that they can calculate a lot of the fuel management info except fuel flow. I haven't messed with this enough to see if I have another setting or something not set correctly.

The Maretron 410 displays everything correctly and was 1 2 3 to setup. I would think Garmin would do that same. In addition to the standard engine parameters, PGN 127489 which include the fuel info you posted, they don't populate these 65280/65281 & 127497 which are needed to get the fuel management information, this could be done internally for their use.

Al, yes they did add that field and it does work to a degree, but not as we discussed an the other thread. While it does display total fuel remaining, it doe snot seem to do so for the individual tanks and only as "Total Fuel Remaining" for the boat. I still need to play around with this further to see if there is something not set right. I only tried for a few minutes right after I updated the FW the first time and not after the most recent update.

 

[ttmott]

@ttmott and @alnav - thanks

Tom on the Garmin in the fuel management screen is what I am referring too. To Al's point with the new firmware Garmin does show Total Fuel Remaining but does not populate the remaining for individual tanks and nothing on the fuel management screen and only in individual data bars that would be on the chart screens etc. I would have thought Garmin would use that data correctly in that they can calculate a lot of the fuel management info except fuel flow. I haven't messed with this enough to see if I have another setting or something not set correctly.

The Maretron 410 displays everything correctly and was 1 2 3 to setup. I would think Garmin would do that same. In addition to the standard engine parameters, PGN 127489 which include the fuel info you posted, they don't populate these 65280/65281 & 127497 which are needed to get the fuel management information, this could be done internally for their use.

Al, yes they did add that field and it does work to a degree, but not as we discussed an the other thread. While it does display total fuel remaining, it doe snot seem to do so for the individual tanks and only as "Total Fuel Remaining" for the boat. I still need to play around with this further to see if there is something not set right. I only tried for a few minutes right after I updated the FW the first time and not after the most recent update.

Generically, fuel flow calculated from tank levels and boat speed/position would crude at best; applicable/accurate only over a long distance. To transmit the PGN the actual flow data needs to be obtained either from the engine ECM or separate fuel flow meters. In my case the engine ECM transmits the data via SAE J1939 then that is converted to Mercury Smartcraft data then the Vessel View 7 displays. What I don't know is if the Vessel View puts that data on the NMEA 2000 network which is needed for the Maretron and Garmin systems or Raymarine system. The Vessel View does put the fuel tank levels on the NMEA 2000 network however.

 

[Skybolt]

Generically, fuel flow calculated from tank levels and boat speed/position would crude at best; applicable/accurate only over a long distance. To transmit the PGN the actual flow data needs to be obtained either from the engine ECM or separate fuel flow meters. In my case the engine ECM transmits the data via SAE J1939 then that is converted to Mercury Smartcraft data then the Vessel View 7 displays. What I don't know is if the Vessel View puts that data on the NMEA 2000 network which is needed for the Maretron and Garmin systems or Raymarine system. The Vessel View does put the fuel tank levels on the NMEA 2000 network however.

Correct, but without fuel flow sensors it still could calculate fuel burn since their is GPS data to support movement and speed. albeit a little crude to your point, but still could be calculated. Perhaps not gal/hr or flow rate, but total burn and avg gal/hr for a trip would be nice as part of the track data since Garmin keeps that.

 

[alnav]

Generically, fuel flow calculated from tank levels and boat speed/position would crude at best; applicable/accurate only over a long distance. To transmit the PGN the actual flow data needs to be obtained either from the engine ECM or separate fuel flow meters. In my case the engine ECM transmits the data via SAE J1930 then that is converted to Mercury Smartcraft data then the Vessel View 7 displays. What I don't know is if the Vessel View puts that data on the NMEA 2000 network which is needed for the Maretron and Garmin systems or Raymarine system. The Vessel View does put the fuel tank levels on the NMEA 2000 network however.

Tom, my VV4 definitely transmits QSB fuel flow to NMEA 2000. I can see it on the Garmins as well as the Maretron and on my Yacht Devices trip data logger. As long as I keep the total fuel onboard updated I find the calculated fuel remaining to be highly accurate. To your point, in my case, using fuel levels (which I can also see on NMEA 2000 devices) is not great because the levels bounce around quite a bit based on trim, speed, etc. (something I wish I could fix). I have a Fuel Management screen on my MFDs (not sure if it was out-of-the box or I created it) where I can see fuel flow and tank levels along with the tank levels.

 

[ttmott]

Correct, but without fuel flow sensors it still could calculate fuel burn since their is GPS data to support movement and speed. albeit a little crude to your point, but still could be calculated. Perhaps not gal/hr or flow rate, but total burn and avg gal/hr for a trip would be nice as part of the track data since Garmin keeps that.

Yea - It comes down to fuel tank level averaging, configuration of the tank, and how all of that is interpreted by the system.

 

[ttmott]

Tom, my VV4 definitely transmits QSB fuel flow to NMEA 2000. I can see it on the Garmins as well as the Maretron and on my Yacht Devices trip data logger. As long as I keep the total fuel onboard updated I find the calculated fuel remaining to be highly accurate. To your point, in my case, using fuel levels (which I can also see on NMEA 2000 devices) is not great because the levels bounce around quite a bit based on trim, speed, etc. (something I wish I could fix). I have a Fuel Management screen on my MFDs (not sure if it was out-of-the box or I created it) where I can see fuel flow and tank levels along with the tank levels.

Can you pull up the PGN for fuel flow on the DSM?
I'll be at the boat to start the refer and freezer replacements today and will look also.

 

[alnav]

I put a Raymarine e127 MFD in my boat awhile back. My Mercury outboards are too old to provide fuel info on the N2K backbone. I have fuel sensors that provide flow data to a Lowrance device. These sensors show up on the "Device List" on the MFD but the Fuel Management page says "need engine info to compute Data". I'm hoping someone knows if it's possible to get the MFD to use the info from the sensors and how to get it to use the sensors in the device list for it's data.

John, in the interest of us Garmin guys not totally hijacking your thread, I found this article about fuel flow data display problems that might help:
https://forum.raymarine.com/showthread.php?tid=6833

 

[Halfhitch]

The Raymarine e127 shows this for detail on the sensors. I don't see anything about a PGN number.

The fuel flow sensors are from Lowrance. They call them EP-10. They are of course connected to the N2K backbone because the MFD has them on the device list. Here is a link.
https://media1.svb-media.de/media/s...08-14-14_dad997e8e9db9ce658c96a8bac5607de.pdf

 

[Halfhitch]

John, in the interest of us Garmin guys not totally hijacking your thread, I found this article about fuel flow data display problems that might help:

Don't worry about a hijack Al. The more we can read about all this the better. All the manufacturers don't do things the same way but understanding the general concept can help some of us.

 

[alnav]

Can you pull up the PGN for fuel flow on the DSM?
I'll be at the boat to start the refer and freezer replacements today and will look also.

Tom, not sure but will check. I have a DSM Fuel Management screen that shows consumption, total fuel, trip fuel used and DTE, all calculated from fuel flow.