shower sump, rule or attwood?

[wkearney99]

Anyone have a strong preference on using a Rule or an Attwood shower sump box? I've had a Rule sump and it's a hassle to maintain. The cover is held by screws and then tend to strip out. That and the lack of gasket tends to let soap foam leak out of it. I'm considering replacing it with an Attwood. Anyone have the Attwood and dislike it enough to stick with the Rule?

 

[alnav]

I'm not sure I have a Rule vs. Attwood issue but I've been planning to replace my shower sump pump if not the whole box. The configuration of my sump (which I think was designed and built by SeaRay to fit the particular spot it's in) is such that the pump (Rule) resides in the low area of the box but the float switch is several inches above the pump on something of a ledge. So, there's always significant liquid left in the sump after the pump does its job. This creates a primordal swamp inside the box and leads to lots of gunk that eventually fouls the float switch. The box is in between the stringers at the aft end of the engine room with the lid secured by wine-nutted bolts and quite inconvenient to access. I try to flush the box at frequent intervals by running lots of fresh water through the system but the box junk never really clears unless I open up the box and clean it out. The solution I've been considering is an automatic pump with an integrated sensor that will remove as much as possible from the sump. Looks like both Rule and Attwood have such pumps. Rule has a model with a solid-state sensor that I'm attracted to. So, I'd be interested in opinions about my issue as well consistent with the original question which I hope are very similar.

 

[Half Fast]

Interested in peoples thoughts on this as well. I spent about an hour sweating on my hands and knees cleaning water out of the sump box area after it overflowed last summer due to too many showers in a row by my guests and need to get something more reliable down there. I was just going to change out the pump parts inside the box but if there is a better design out there I'd love to hear about it.

 

[RollerCoastr]

I fought with my OEM Attwood boxes for a decade before they changed designs and stopped production on the replacement parts. I don't have any experience with their newer products, and I don't plan to get any. I've been happy (if one CAN be happy with anything related to a sump) with my Rule box.

 

[Big Island Lifer]

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=10111&subdeptNum=10628&classNum=10629

Why can't you use something like this. I thought about replacing my step down pump with one of these.

 

[wkearney99]

Why can't you use something like this.

That is a Rule sump box. I already have one and am considering getting rid of it in favor of one by Attwood. I'm curious if anyone's had better (or worse) luck with the Attwood type.

The significant differences are lid and pump type. The Attwood lid has a gasket and clips onto the box, presumably making it easier to service. The Rule has a pump separate from the float switch. Some folks have had trouble with floats installed on the 'high' side of the box, leading to water being left in the sump. That, fortunately, hasn't been a problem with my setup (and wouldn't be with the Attwood either). I've not yet had trouble with float switches so I don't have a strong opinion for/against the integrated vs separate switch setup.

I've tried a variety of methods to keep the box from getting filthy, with varying success. I don't mind having to clean it, just hate having to keep dealing with the screws on the lid. Clips might, in theory, make for more regular cleaning. Otherwise it just gets ignored for 'another week more' and eventually gets nasty inside.

There's also the matter of pump size. I don't recall what's in there now. I'm only dealing with a single shower and the galley sink. I don't know if the current Rule sump has the 500 or the 750 gph pump. I'd likely go with the 750 if I replace the box.

 

[gerryb]

Bill, I took the screws off years ago. Thought about replacing them with a dual magnetic system but the lid has stayed on just fine without the screws.

 

[Half Fast]

Bill, I took the screws off years ago. Thought about replacing them with a doal magnetic system but the lid has stayed on just fine without the screws.

Not a bad idea - as its not like the lid is at all watertight even with the screws in (which I can unfortunately attest to first hand)

 

[wkearney99]

Glad to hear it worked for you, but mine wouldn't stay in place without the screws. Water or soap foam levels would push it out of the way. I've seen it happen when I was trying to find the source of water in the area. I put a bead of caulk under the lid and made a somewhat better seal. That helps cut down on leaks.

I've considered replacing the philips-head screws with some thumbscrews but didn't have any on-had that were suitable for the existing holes. But then I'd still have the potential problem of dropping the damned things into the bilge.

 

[Cincy Aquaholic]

I had to replace my stock atwood because it seem to be constantly overflowing. The switch kept getting stuck even when I cleaned it. The new one has been working great but I make a point of removing the pump and cleaning it dockside every few weeks. It has a plug so it's easily removed. But my only complaint is the plastic tabs on the lid are fragile. My old one had several that broke. So you have to be careful and they may weaken over time. Unfortunately I don't think you can buy just a new lid. Also, although it's a sealed lid the box does have a vent hole so it will leak if it fills up. That's frustrating. I wish it just backed up into a sink rather than making my bilge a mess. But I make a point of listening for it when I can plus mine is easily accessible.

 

[wkearney99]

Just great, trading one leak for another. Ya can't win sometimes.

I've read where others put in a through-hull drain for their galley sink. I may just go that route. It's most often the galley sink that causes the problems. We don't use the shower every time, but the galley sink gets used quite a lot.

I may just end up living with the Rule box. I'll double-check the GPH rating on the pump. If it's the 500 then I might upgrade to a 750 or greater. But I think the through-hull is probably going to be a better solution in the long run.

Thanks, everyone, for the great comments.

 

[fwebster]

You guys need to be sure you are discussing apples and apples.

If I remember correctly, the OP has a non-Sea Ray boat and the answers he is getting are from Sea Ray owners. I have no idea what type boat or what particular sump box is involved. The sump box Sea Ray typically uses has an external lip that turns out and the sump box lid is nothing more than a piece of Lexan sheet that is bolted, not screwed down thru the lip on the box with the easily removed wingnuts outside the box, not inside. There are no screws to strip out. The lid has a closed cell foam seal that prevents leaks and odors.

There is nothing wrong with the Rule box used in Sea Rays. Each component is separate and replaceable....the float switch is not integral to the pump. The switch is the usual part to cause problems and with the Sea Ray design replacing the float switch is a $24 part (from the dealer), cheaper if you shop. That sure beats replacing a $125+ integrated pump and switch when it fails.

 

[wkearney99]

In reviewing pictures from other sea ray owners (in other threads here) there have been many different types of sump boxes used over the years. Some are clearly the screw-down type made by Rule (or whichever part of ITT owns them now). This is the type of box I current have, as I posted. As it's sold today it uses screws into the plastic, not wingnut head bolts into threads (which would be a fine design). Others have had Attwood boxes, but it's not clear those are the current style. So asking for comments from owners having dealt with the actual boxes, and getting their comments, has been helpful.

Switches in contact with liquids have been the bane of bilge and sump box situations for ages. There's definitely some truth to the idea of replacing a separate switch as being less expensive than a whole pump. Even when said switches are pieces of crap that fail way too often.

It seems solid state or other non-contact switches aren't favored as much in this situation. Is it a cost or unsuitability issue?

 

[fwebster]

Cost or unsuitablilty?

You'll have to ask whomever spec'd the sump box components on your boat, but I think the answer is probably neither. What usually happens is the float switch wiring is submerged in water containing detergents and soap film which cause the insulation to break down and the wiring to corrode. Keep the sump free of crud and soap residue and the float switches last a long time. My boat is 15 years old and we've replaced the sump switch only once, but I never leave the boat without flushing the sump box with an appropriate chemical treatment.

 

[Nehalennia]

1st. Kearney's back!
2nd, I have never used my shower in the 4 cubic ft. head I have but I have seen the unused sump box under the stairs. Isn't there enough room to make the terminations for the pumps above the sump container lid and out of the box? I'm just asking.

 

[The Bill Collector]

Cost or unsuitablilty?

You'll have to ask whomever spec'd the sump box components on your boat, but I think the answer is probably neither. What usually happens is the float switch wiring is submerged in water containing detergents and soap film which cause the insulation to break down and the wiring to corrode. Keep the sump free of crud and soap residue and the float switches last a long time. My boat is 15 years old and we've replaced the sump switch only once, but I never leave the boat without flushing the sump box with an appropriate chemical treatment.

Frank and I have almost the same vessel. I replaced my switch a couple of years ago with the "Water Witch" sump pump switch with good results...

 

[copb8tx]

At first I wondered why Sea Ray would have designed the sump box with the stepped bottom design which always leaves a significant amount of water in the 'bowl'. My thinking is that they specifically wanted to isolate the float switch as a separate unit that's away from the pump grate where most of the crud will sink and clog. Perhaps this allows the switch to stay cleaner and less prone to sticking open or closed creating an overflow?

I know a lot here will disagree, but I'm sure some thought and experience went into the design of the stepped unit.

 

[fwebster]

I believe it is because the Rule pumps stay primed when their base remains under water.

All of the connections on my sump box are outside the box itself, but that doesn't keep soap film and detergents from degrading the switch wiring. I think the better question may be why the wiring on the pump itself seems impervious to the same degredation that attacks the switch wires.

 

[KayKook]

I have had good luck with the Attwood Pumps. Their customer service is also first rate, and very helpful with questions.
I would say go with the Attwood.

 

[wkearney99]

I replaced my switch a couple of years ago with the "Water Witch" sump pump switch with good results...

Thanks Mark. Is the switch oriented vertically or with both contacts facing downward? How is it for added run-time once the level drops below the sensor levels? (To let the pump get the last bits of water). Or is your pump designed to do that itself?

Isn't there enough room to make the terminations for the pumps above the sump container lid and out of the box?

How the wiring's connected wasn't really my question, but you're right, it wouldn't make much sense to have the connections inside the sump. All the boxes I've seen handle the wiring connections outside of the sump box. That still leaves the float switch wiring and the connection to the pump exposed to water. Both usually have some sort of seal. The pumps tend to have the wires exit higher up. The switch doesn't but there's not much to be done about that, other than have the float end pointed toward the low side of the sump (which tilts even lower once under way). If I had to guess about switch wiring degrading the height certainly might make a difference. The float wires being just that little bit lower and exposed longer to water might be enough. Or planned obsolescence.

I've had no wiring, switch or pump troubles yet. It's certainly worth keeping in mind though.