The Official 450 Express Bridge Owners Club

I spent some time on the boat last night trying to locate the source of the fresh water in my bilge near the water heater. First, with the pumps off I vacuumed and cleaned the area below the third stateroom and around the water heater. I’m fairly certain both were fresh water. That should eliminate the AC as the source. I then turned on the pump and ran a quarter of the tanks through the system. No leaks running or when the lines were under pressure. I then over filled the fresh water tanks with my dock hose, thinking maybe I have a tank leak. Nothing. Finally I turned the hot water heater on for an hour; again no leaks.

With all of that, I think found the possible source. I stuck my head down near the water heater and looked forward to see the lovely grey water sump box that I am ever so familiar with. I noticed that the starboard side aft corner of the lid (the one I can’t reach to bolt) had a decent sized gap. We had some rough seas recently. I trimmed the boat to plow through the chop and I think the sump must have been fairly full and spilled out the gap.

Although I can’t get a bolt in the lid, I remembered the suggestion to use a zip tie, so hopefully that cures it for now.
Kevin, here is a picture of my accumulator tank on the bottom right.
IMG_3452.jpeg
 
Sure could be. I should have mentioned that as the same thing happened to me on a trip to Bimini in June. We were bouncing around pretty good for 3 1/2 hours. Once docked, I could hear the alarm. Found water by the water heater, but no leaks. Dried everything and no more issues.
 
Well, unless something goes wrong we splash tomorrow. That said, even with 12 days in the yard I couldn't get anyone to polish my lower hull (marina says it is too hot and detailers won't work). Sooooo, I had to cowboy up and do it myself. 15 hours of sweat later, the top of the boat looks dull (which it isn't)...ugh. Can work the rest at my dock. Also, going back to black bottom paint this winter. Just can't keep the blue clean.


Screenshot_20230831_152902_Gallery.jpg
 
Hi All,

FWIW, here is a pic of my water heater and accumulator tank. When we bought that boat, there was approx. 6" of water in this compartment and no telling for how long (and WH dead obviously). You can see where the old water heater was. We drilled the 2 holes to see if water had migrated lower in the hull, but all was dry.

As you can see, I rotated the water heater and slid it aft under the structure. I gained more storage space and still have access to all the service parts on the water heater.

As for accumulator tanks, I've had 3 of the smaller black ones. They stink. They do not last and are too small for the plumbing in our boats. Last failure, I bit the bullet and installed the gallon Groco one in the pic. VERY happy with it thus far.

You might be able to see, I have 2 water alarms down there. One aft against the bulkhead (smart switch). This one is great, but it takes a few inches of water for that to alarm. Too late to prevent WH damage. I wanted to know if ANY water got down there as it is supposed to be dry, so I installed a second one/type (white rectangle with black wires just in front of the WH) it is just a plain water alarm from Lowes that you can use in laundry rooms, etc. I don't remember the cost, but I believe less that $20 and has saved me from a few possible catastrophes. I also have same alarm in the salon air conditioning sump floor locker for the same reasons, and has prevented worse problems.
 

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LMBoat said:
Hi All,

FWIW, here is a pic of my water heater and accumulator tank. When we bought that boat, there was approx. 6" of water in this compartment and no telling for how long (and WH dead obviously). You can see where the old water heater was. We drilled the 2 holes to see if water had migrated lower in the hull, but all was dry.

As you can see, I rotated the water heater and slid it aft under the structure. I gained more storage space and still have access to all the service parts on the water heater.

As for accumulator tanks, I've had 3 of the smaller black ones. They stink. They do not last and are too small for the plumbing in our boats. Last failure, I bit the bullet and installed the gallon Groco one in the pic. VERY happy with it thus far.

You might be able to see, I have 2 water alarms down there. One aft against the bulkhead (smart switch). This one is great, but it takes a few inches of water for that to alarm. Too late to prevent WH damage. I wanted to know if ANY water got down there as it is supposed to be dry, so I installed a second one/type (white rectangle with black wires just in front of the WH) it is just a plain water alarm from Lowes that you can use in laundry rooms, etc. I don't remember the cost, but I believe less that $20 and has saved me from a few possible catastrophes. I also have same alarm in the salon air conditioning sump floor locker for the same reasons, and has prevented worse problems.
Click to expand...
Like how you moved it forward into that space.

Here is my dumb question; my dad owned an RV biz long ago and most (if not all) of the RVs didn't have accumulators and often only had a single water pump. Besides keeping temp fluctuations from occurring, what am I losing by not having an accumulator?
 
LMBoat said:
The accumulator tank smooths out the water flow and the pump(s) cycle less. it is not a "have to have" but a "nice to have". If you are happy with your system, no need to add one.
Click to expand...

Thx! Makes sense, wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some real benefit. May add one in the future, and really like moving that thing under the floor.
 
LMBoat said:
Hi All,

FWIW, here is a pic of my water heater and accumulator tank. When we bought that boat, there was approx. 6" of water in this compartment and no telling for how long (and WH dead obviously). You can see where the old water heater was. We drilled the 2 holes to see if water had migrated lower in the hull, but all was dry.

As you can see, I rotated the water heater and slid it aft under the structure. I gained more storage space and still have access to all the service parts on the water heater.

As for accumulator tanks, I've had 3 of the smaller black ones. They stink. They do not last and are too small for the plumbing in our boats. Last failure, I bit the bullet and installed the gallon Groco one in the pic. VERY happy with it thus far.

You might be able to see, I have 2 water alarms down there. One aft against the bulkhead (smart switch). This one is great, but it takes a few inches of water for that to alarm. Too late to prevent WH damage. I wanted to know if ANY water got down there as it is supposed to be dry, so I installed a second one/type (white rectangle with black wires just in front of the WH) it is just a plain water alarm from Lowes that you can use in laundry rooms, etc. I don't remember the cost, but I believe less that $20 and has saved me from a few possible catastrophes. I also have same alarm in the salon air conditioning sump floor locker for the same reasons, and has prevented worse problems.
Click to expand...
Reminds me to get a couple water alarms for bilge. One, at least, of two by water heater, one next to my salon A/C condensate box with a bilge pump in it. Other two A/C units condensate drain into the grey water sump. That sump box has an overflow to a bilge hold beneath aft cabin steps with a bilge pump. Sometimes if rocked by a passing boat wake or rough water, it activates and alarmed as "Fwd Emergency Bilge Pump". Not so forward actually, it's just forward of the engine room firewall.
 
Prepped boat for Idalia with extra lines and removal of clear bridge Strataglass surround. All new, didn't want to take a chance. Each section laid out flat with a bed sheet in-between each, in aft cabin.
IMG_20230826_093455~2.jpg
IMG_20230828_153339.jpg
 
Jack O'Brien said:
Prepped boat for Idalia with extra lines and removal of clear bridge Strataglass surround. All new, didn't want to take a chance. Each section laid out flat with a bed sheet in-between each, in aft cabin.View attachment 150451View attachment 150452
Click to expand...
If I could offer a suggestion or two -
Fend the boat as far from the dock as possible both to the sides and moved forward. The configuration you have in the pictures when things start to rock and roll the boat will roll the fenders off the dock and now the boat is into the dock. Don't plan for the fenders to do anything - they are a safety backup. Your lines are the primary means to keep the boat away from the dock and other structures.
Get a chain around the concrete piers up well above the dock and put some lines to that chain. If that floating dock should break loose you are not depended upon the dock cleats.
From the school of hard knocks....
 
ttmott said:
If I could offer a suggestion or two -
Fend the boat as far from the dock as possible both to the sides and moved forward. The configuration you have in the pictures when things start to rock and roll the boat will roll the fenders off the dock and now the boat is into the dock. Don't plan for the fenders to do anything - they are a safety backup. Your lines are the primary means to keep the boat away from the dock and other structures.
Get a chain around the concrete piers up well above the dock and put some lines to that chain. If that floating dock should break loose you are not depended upon the dock cleats.
From the school of hard knocks....
Click to expand...
Thanks. Boat survived Cat 5 Ian tied same. Docks are floating docks surged 9'. Use every point of contact in spring line fashion. Double line on the bow. Two pilings on port side stabilize her as well and hold her just away from the pier but not so tight as to inhibit surge elevation. Bumbers are tied along and to the pier (permanent). Two hanging from the boat are just extra in a couple gaps. Forbidden to tie anything to the float dock steel/concrete piling. Indeed she's dependent upon the float docks not collapsing. Port side pilings might inhibit an accordion stack-up of boats but if the float dock pilings are over-run with a 12' surge, it's over. Surge in Ian was the largest fail factor in failed marinas when the wind was 155mph. Some float docks exceeded their piling heights. In the case of fixed docks, surge busted lines and boats blew over the top of pilings and docks. Some were impaled and sunk.
 
Hi All,

Cross posting this over here. Applies to any engine.

www.clubsearay.com

Official Cummins 6cta 450C thread

The issue that can happen is if the diodes in the rectifier circuit allow current to flow in the wrong direction. Diodes are electrical "check valves" for lack of a better description, current can flow one direction but not the other. They can fail Open or Shorted. If they are shorted then...
www.clubsearay.com www.clubsearay.com
 
So, trim tab actuators; had one of mine shear off at the tab on the port side, which was why I was on the hard.

Not sure how ineffective my old, likely original, actuators were, but the new ones have made a HUGE difference in my cruise speed.

Before, with full tanks of fuel I was getting 15.1 to 15.5 kts @ 2100 RPM with tabs full down until we were lighter. Then, we would cruise between 16 and 17 kts once below 3/4 tank of fuel depending on wind/current.

FWIW, completely full of fuel with wind in the face, the new actuators are lowering the nose enough to see 17 to 17.5 kts. Easily a 2 kt increase with all four tab actuators being new, did not change the HPU. Food for thought on your next haul. They are less than $400 for the set and easy DIY to change.
 
Forrestkk said:
So, trim tab actuators; had one of mine shear off at the tab on the port side, which was why I was on the hard.

Not sure how ineffective my old, likely original, actuators were, but the new ones have made a HUGE difference in my cruise speed.

Before, with full tanks of fuel I was getting 15.1 to 15.5 kts @ 2100 RPM with tabs full down until we were lighter. Then, we would cruise between 16 and 17 kts once below 3/4 tank of fuel depending on wind/current.

FWIW, completely full of fuel with wind in the face, the new actuators are lowering the nose enough to see 17 to 17.5 kts. Easily a 2 kt increase with all four tab actuators being new, did not change the HPU. Food for thought on your next haul. They are less than $400 for the set and easy DIY to change.
Click to expand...
Mine seem to do the job but I have no idea their age. On plane for me even with full fuel I run at 2200-2300rpm, 19-20mph, trim down. Below 19 mph I start to drag as evidenced by wake and feel of laboring to stay on plane. Would be a good replace while on the hard...just because. I also have a heavy Brig 10' dinghy on platform with 20hp Honda. Sure would prefer something much lighter, but not a rowboat!
 
Jack O'Brien said:
Mine seem to do the job but I have no idea their age. On plane for me even with full fuel I run at 2200-2300rpm, 19-20mph, trim down. Below 19 mph I start to drag as evidenced by wake and feel of laboring to stay on plane. Would be a good replace while on the hard...just because. I also have a heavy Brig 10' dinghy on platform with 20hp Honda. Sure would prefer something much lighter, but not a rowboat!
Click to expand...
We don't have a dinghy, but to talk apples and apples on speed 17 kts equates to 19.55 MPH (17 x 1.15) at 2100.

I was blown away. A 2kt increase equates to roughly a 13% increase in speed.

Anyway, just throwing it out there for the group. I wouldn't have changed mine if that one hadn't broke.

Arguably, 13% increase in speed, is a 13% reduction in net fuel burn, for $400 bucks and a few hours of labor. At 26 GPH, that is a reduction of 3.38 gallons used to travel the same distance. At $4 per gallon, That equates to a 74 hour ROI (assuming a $1,000 total if you pay for the labor) and then you are saving money.
 
Nicely done! And why I employ a diver to monthly clean bottom & running gear. Also does zincs as needed. Water where I'm at in SWFL very conducive to marine growth particularly in summer. Had opportunity to test it's need and frequency when former lone diver quit upon Ian. Left others in the lurch too. Went 60 days or so, perhaps even longer, could hardly stay on plane. Quick found Hull2Prop company. Happy since.
 
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