Unbelievable Situation - WTF???

[Sprint27c]

We've been docked at the same Marina now for 2 seasons. For those years we've basically splashed the boat, enjoyed it for a season then put it back on the hard...lather, rinse, repeat.

Normally I like to be there during splash and haul out. This year for haul-out I was busy at work so I sent my wife to do last minute clean-up and let the Marina handle the haul-out on their own. I remember thinking on that October day that it was hard to believe they would haul it out on such an incredibly windy day and with the lake level so very low. Aside from these factors, the entrance to the haul-out pit is VERY narrow and lined with giant rocks on the port side. If left to me there was no way I'd have pulled it on that day. Anyway, my wife did leave before they actually moved the boat - but that was the last we heard of anything from the marina - until today - over 3 months later.

We just received a maintenance bill for $850 for "repair of a steering leak". Funny thing is - to our knowledge we never had a steering leak. To that point - we've never had a problem with anything on this boat. So we called the Marina - who put us in contact with the manager.

He reports that he personally was the one who moved the boat to the well and that upon getting underway found that the boat was "almost impossible to steer". He reported that they "almost crashed the thing getting it in there". Go figure...gale winds, no water in the marina, and supposedly no steering. Regardless, they then took it upon themselves to do an entire rebuild of something - I'm guessing the rudder shaft seals? I didn't get a chance to talk to them - but the bill is almost entirely for labor --- only $85 for parts.

First of all - being that nobody even contacted us...I have to be suspicious of what went down here. I have this awful feeling in my gut that they backed it into the rocks somehow and caused the damage themselves---then repaired it before we could get a look.

Then again...why they would ever send a bill if they did cause the damage raises doubt to that theory. I've pretty much made up my mind not to pay the bill...based on the fact that I never even knew about the damage...let alone was given a chance to authorize it. In fact I probably would have shopped around or even fixed it myself.

What a sh#*ty situation...I'm left doubting the guys at my marina big time and I sure don't like that feeling. This case sure stinks like dead fish. :smt013

 

[Sundancer]

Stinks like a PILE of dead fish. I think you are right and onto something. Tell them your wife didn't see anything when she cleaned out the bilge or anything on the water MINUTES before they pulled it out. Get over and take a look at the bottom to see if there are any shiny new areas and then call your lawyer. In most states, you are given the opportunity to approve or deny repairs AND you have the ability to inspect replaced parts. If they did it, they may have already collected from their insurance as well? No proof anything was wrong and no proof anything was fixed either! What was their rationale for waiting three months to tell you? I'd be all over that too AND looking for a new marina.

 

[StressAweigh]

There is no way I would pay them for a repair that they may not have even done. And on top of that you were never told about it and never gave you ok to work on it. If it were to go to court I would think you would come out on top. With out a signed work order someone is SOL . Best of luck

 

[Sundancer]

Ha!!! Better yet! Tell him he should learn how to drive!! With twins, why was he using the steering wheel anyway!! What a loser!

 

[StressAweigh]

Great point Dancer

 

[Dave S]

I agree it doesn't pass the "smell test" right now. But you really need more information and facts before you can do anything. My recommendation is that you should go look at the boat first and talk to the tech(s) who did the repair work too to see if someone is trying to pull a fast one here.

Let us know what you find out.

 

[sbw1]

Where do you intend to keep and slip your boat next year?

 

[fwebster]

You just need to go have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with the marina folks.......Give them the benefit of the doubt and let them explain, but get educated about your steering system first.

An '05 420 should have hydraulic steering. That means you have a helm pump, some tubing and a rudder actuator which if just a double action hydraulic cylinder. If you have a 3 year old boat with those 2 components needing rebuilding, then you have the first Sea Ray of any type that I have ever heard of needing such work in 25 years expereince with larger Sea Rays.

Similarly, a 3 year old boat should need no more than having the rudder packing glands tightened. My boat is 12 years old and I've never even replaced the packing, only adjusted the packing glands.

Ask hard questions:

1.Show me why my boat needed about 8 hours work rebuilding steering components......not tell me, show me.
2. The rudders didn't leak, why was rebuilding the rudder post assy necessary.....show me the parts you removed
3.The helm pump worked properly......why was it necessary to rebuild it.
4. Same with the actuation cylinder/ram.
5. Show me in my storage aggreement where you have the right to make substantial repairs to my boat without my knowledge....most agreements give the marina the right to make emergency repairs without prior approval....and there is a difference between emergecy and substantial.

If the boat was damaged because it was moved in bad conditions on that particular day, then it should be the marina's responsibility.....would anything be harmed but their scheduling if they had waited for better conditions?



I would hope this is a justifiable repair, but honestly, an 8+ hour repair without your approval on an essentially new boat causes me concern. My bet is that once you start asking hard questions, the marina manager will come clean and adjust the charges.

 

[rondds]

sprint:
it burns me up when i hear a story like this and i'm not trying to rub salt in the wound, but this is PRECISELY why i do pretty much everything myself - and if i'm unable to do something, i wont let the damn marina touch the boat if i'm not there. granted, there are occasions that you just cant be present, but in those cases, i'd postpone the job. it seems that every marina's management and service departments have a devious and underhanded streak. i dont trust any of them and i snicker when i read a brokerage listings that that boast "yard maintained." i'm know i'm being very negative, but that's how i feel.

 

[Lake Erie Boater]

How they think they are going to see cash without getting a prior authorization this day and age is at best a crapshoot for them.

I am very likely going to be moving to a marina in Sandusky bay this spring and would sure like to know who this is so I can stay away myself.

 

[tobnpr]

Doesn't stink like dead fish- more like putrefied.
First, I doubt you're legally obligated to pay anything. I have no idea why they did not contact the day of the "problem", but that is what makes me most suspicious. My yards have always kept me informed of even the smallest problems they encounter that we had not anticipated. With that said, to me fair is fair and if they DID perform necessary work I'd pay a reasonable bill.
If the bill says "steering leak" it would seem to indicate some part of the hydraulic system, not the rudders. Any problems with rudders on a nearly new boat like yours is unheard of as Frank said.
Did they itemize the "parts" they replaced? It would give us an idea of what was done (IF it was done), as well as an idea of what that should cost. Ask them to see the receipt for the parts they're billing you for.

Even if the repairs were *necessary*, I'd get my boat the hell out of there in the Spring. That's no way to do business.

 

[Woody]

It sounds to me like the repairs were made after the boat was pulled. If so then the repairs certainly were not so "necessary" or urgent that there wasn't time to contact the owner for authorization. I'd go over the boat externally with a fine tooth comb looking for signs of repair work, my guess is they made a screw up while pulling it. If there was a steering leak as bad as they say, it must have leaked/sprayed somewhere. Look for oil or signs of a cleanup. Leaking rudder shafts wouldn't make the boat "impossible to steer".

 

[comsnark]

You have a simple problem: A marina of questionable honesty has physical possession of your boat.

It may very possible that this buisness relationship is about to come to an end. But they have physical possession of your boat. You may need to get it out of there somehow. . or just suck it up and hope they don't find another repair to make during the relaunch process. I would also consider physically moving the boat elsewhere for relaunch. But again. . you may just have to take the hit and take your buisness elsewhere.

But I agree with the posts above: This charge should be questioned. You can start simply with "The boat had no such problem the day of haulout, and no work order was submitted".

 

[Sprint27c]

Very good comments from all - thanks for the input. Frank those are excellent suggestions and indeed I will definitely be meeting with them to see what's up.

Overall its just disappointing that they handled a multi-hundred-thousand dollar item like it was an old wooden dingy...then bungled the service. I expect WAY better than that.

 

[comsnark]

Oh. . .and contrast this with my power steering pump story. I don't have hydraulics beyond a simple power steering pump.

One year ago, my mechanic noted low power steering fluid level during winterization.

Last spring, while doing another job, the mechanic noted the fluid level had dropped a bit. "Hmmm". He crawled up over the engine, (no easy feat), had me fire up the engine, and traced out the lines. Found leaking fitting. Tightened it. No more leak. Five or ten minutes effort. No charge.

 

[fc3]

What Frank says. Don't get antagonistic, yet. You don't want them to slap a lien on your boat.

Best regards,
Frank (one of the other Franks) C.

 

[geriksen]

They could slap a lien on it, but they would not get very far without a signed work order.
It does smell like CYA but it could just be incompetence in the service office. The "smelliest" part is that the boat was out of the water already when they diagnosed the problem so there is no excuse for not calling the owner with an estimate to get approval for this repair. A case cannot be made for this being an "emergency repair". Not calling the owner first is what makes this look like they did not want the boat owner to see what was really damaged. If that is what happend these guys have some real large "cohones" to try and collect it from you. That is truly scary.

Before making any accusations, my suggestion would be to have a good marine surveyor take a look at it.

I hate to hear stories like this. Honest shops (like ours) often get accused of doing stuff like this. These stories make all shops look bad when they are not.

Things happen.... We have made mistakes before. All shops do. When it happens, just fix it correctly and move on. Trying to bill the customer for it..... Jeeezzz, that is weak.

A surveyor should be able to tell if you now have new rudder or rudder box on one side.
If only hoses were replaced, I don't how the yard could have caused that..

We tried to deliver a 300 Sedan Bridge in 40mph winds once to make a deadline. The teak insert blew out of the platform and we scratched the side of the boat getting it in the slip.
It was a bad judgement call on our part to attempt that. Same thing could have happend here.

 

[jarwood]

I can understand your frustration.

I have issues with a marina where I kept my boat as well. Fortunately mine was cosmetic damage on two brand new boats along with improper service. I had numerous problems where I dry stored my boat. The first was a new boat I purchased from the marina. They damaged the gelcost when launching, serviced the boat improperly, and I had cigarette burns in the gelcoat when the boat was left out one night from people throwing cigarettes off the roof top bar onto the boats. I made numerous complaints about these issues and the marina manager told me he would take care of it. Nothing was ever done all I got was lip service. I sold that boat due to lack of dealer support from that marina. (Several Warranty issues never resolved) I purchased a new Sea Ray from a dealer across the lake. I took the boat back to that marina to finish out my year contract. They did damage to the gelcoat on my new Sea Ray first day they put it in the water. This time when I complained I gave the marina manager :smt021 a time limit on taking care of the boat repairs. I went back to the marina after their time was up and guess what not fixed. I was real nice I had them put the boat in the water and I drove to the marina were it was purchased. They let me keep it their for a few days and I picked up my boat and took it home. 1 month later they send me a late fee because I had not paid my storage fee for the quater. Imagine their surprise when I told them I removed my boat and why. I have all these issues documented and photos.

Issues like this really make me angry :smt013. We pay a lot of money to enjoy boating. Not only the cost of the vessel put paying a monthly fee to a marina who thinks because you sign a contract and keep your boat their they can take advantage of you. I have been in sales for years and would never treat my customers like that. Lets not forget that is what we are customers.

Good Luck and sorry about the ranting and raving, just want you to know your not alone.

 

[douglee25]

It does sound like not all the details are being brought to light. Like the one guy said, ask those easy questions and see how they respond. It should be really easy to tell if it was a legit repair or not.

Doug

 

[ImpulseIII]

As fuel becomes more and more expensive, and the general cost of boating follows suit, marinas will be facing a declining population of boaters (we see evidence of this at my marina with mid-size slips). Several years ago they had a waiting list, now they have to advertise.

Although I have not experienced it first hand, I have been told that service at our marina is spotty at best and many just take their boats to other marinas to have work done. Service is a money maker for a marina so anytime a disgruntled slip holder goes elsewhere for service, it cost the marina money. You would think they would learn (actually "Who Moved My Cheese" by Spencer Johnson should be required reading for most marina managers (along with a stint at Dale Carnegie)!!

If poor service continues, they will "reap what they sow" and people will go else ware. Down side to that is that the owners will sell the marina to a developer who will build condos rather that replace the manager with one that understands customer service.

Just my $.02.