'07 240 DA Newbie: HELP I THINK SALESMAN SMELLS FRESH MEAT

N

NYLA

New Member
Jun 3, 2007
2
Hi All. I am new to this board and have found so much useful information!

1. I just wanted a reality check on the price I was quoted on a 2007 240 DA (hoping to close asap so that I can get the most out of the boat for the remaining NYC season).

2. In addition, any tips on how to negotiate with MM would be appreciated.

Appreciate all the tips as this would be my first purchase of a boat.

I was quoted a price of $54,000 w/tax (number reflects $5000 discount SeaRay was offering).

Engine: 5.0L MPI BR3
No trailer in price

Optional equipment:
Bimini canvas package, Snap-in carpet, Fire supp system, Stove, pump-out head, Nickel gel coated dash

Dealer included:
CG package, Name on transom, Bottom paint and Full tank of fuel

Here's the story behind my post:

When I finally scheduled a sea trial with my salesman (which was almost impossible) I specifically asked about the head because I wanted to confirm that the boat I would be purchasing would have the same head. I was told yes and that the equipment was standard. I did a little bit of reading on the internet and it turns out that the head on the sea trial boat (I believe) was a vacuflush and that was not included in the purchase price I was quoted. I told my salesman that what he told me was not true and he went on to explain that he must have confused my question and the head on the sea trial boat was a prototype and that no 2007 240 DAs have that head. He told me that if I wanted a vacuflush that he could retrofit one for $2100-2200. I complained to my salesman that he misrepresented the product and all he offered was a speedy retrofit at the quoted additional price.

After reading this message board it seems that the vacuflush is the way to go and, in addition, to confuse things a little more, I also think A/C is the way to go. I saw an earlier post where someone got a/c, vacuflush and a bigger engine for just under $55,000.

It would be great to get any suggestions on the best/fair price on 2007 240 Sundancer with all options listed above as well as a/c and vacuflush. I realize that this is not the best time to purchase a boat and get the best price but I just want to make sure that I am not overpaying.

Sorry for the long post (obviously a newbie to this board and boating).

Thanks.

NYLA
 
It would be good to know what the suggested retail is on the boat you are interested in purchasing. If you haven't already done so, go to Sea Ray's web site and price out the boat they are offering at Sea Ray's "retail price". That will give you some type of an idea of what your discount is. http://www.searay.com/configurator.asp?ycid=17472& Based on how you describe the boat's options, I would guess your discount is in excess of 30 percent off retail which is pretty good. Selling prices vary widely depending on the time of year and demand for the boat. Also, some dealers are capable of offering lower selling prices than others.
 
Take a deep breath.

Relax.

First. . . how important is $55,000 to you? :smt001 Is this discretionary money; Is this money NOT critical; won't affect college tuitions or retirement or is this a BIG investment that MAKES A DIFFERENCE? Of course no one wants to be ripped off. . .but how important is spending $50,000 vs $60,000?

Know that you are buying a B.O.A.T. (B.O.A.T. = Break Out Another Thou) Know that upkeep will run several thousand per year. Know that depreciation is significant. This is NOT an asset.

Second. . . get a feel for used pricing. Check out yachtworld.com

Third. . .while it is VERY possible the salesman made an honest mistake, I would comparision shop. I realize that SeaRay is only sold by a few dealers. And MarineMax is like . . . everywhere. . . Why not take a road trip one weekend and visit another dealer? Before going. . actually call one up to make sure that they have the boat you want. Make an appointment. I wouldn't bother "just showing up", because a dealer won't get serious pricing until you show you are serious anyway. And you don't want to waste your time doing that.

Fourth: Yes, if you have boat fever, and you need the boat NOW, then yes, you WILL pay more. I will raise my hand and state that I DID pay more for "getting it NOW" -> and that was buying used!!

BUT. . .I also did shop new. Overall, I saved big money and got more boat because I actually waited, learned more, and actually passed on buying for a full year. In my first pass, I felt like you and was "not comfortable" with the entire new boat buying scene. I had the strong feeling the boats were not moving. I had the strong sense of "buyers market", but the dealers were trying to generate a sense of "sellers market".

You know what? I waited a year to buy. The one new boat I bid on in spring 2005 was still on the showroom floor when I bought in summer 2006.
 
Comsnark :thumbsup:

In the NY area, if you put any money down, you will show up on the computer at another dealer. The other dealer will not talk price with you seriously knowing you have $$$ down on another boat in the area, if he talks price at all. He may even get on the phone with your sales guy. This happened to me when I was shopping in the area.

He does smell blood in the water, you are shopping at a pretty desperate time. You are going to pay a little more if you want it now. If it's important to you to have a boat this season, then just swallow it and enjoy the boat. If price is the concern, wait until the end of the season and the prices will drop on left over boats.
 
You are getting great advice.

First, I agree with the above, take a little break, step back and verify what you want.

Second, make sure you understand what buying new means.

On the positives, you get a brand new boat. You are the first to use it. It will have that new boat smell. Items that are not working will be fixed under warranty. Its not unlike buying a new car.

However you did say this is your first boat. Think back to your fist car. Did you buy a new car for your first car?

On the negatives, say you decide this is not for you. Since you mentioned that this is your FIRST boat, there is a 50/50 chance that you will decide the boating experience is not what you thought it was. This is common. What happens is people go boating with friends and have a great time or two, on a summer weekend, at your friend’s expense and the weather is great and the friend takes care of all the details. You get to basically enjoy. This gets you the boating fever.

Then you buy and realize the amount of work involved in cleaning and upkeep on the boat plus the expense is far more then the boat itself. Expenses will include slip fees, winter storage, having the boat winterized, fuel costs, insurance, etc. Let’s just look at fuel costs. A 2007 240DA gets about 2.4 MPG (yes, that is a period between the 2 and the 4) and fuel on the water is about $4.00/gallon or around $.60 more then at land stations. I don’t know what slips and storage go for in your area but you can call a marina or two and find out. Oh, and insurance. Finally, the costs of mistakes. Learning how to dock, breaking off a trim tab or other mistakes WILL happen. Believe me, mistakes will happen.

OK, so lets say 1 year later you decide to sell. The boat went from new to used, lost a model year and the broker will take a 10% commission. Assume you will get around 70% of what you paid for the boat if you sell in spring, 65% if it sells in early summer or 60% if fall. It is not uncommon for boats to take a season to sell assuming its spring when you start. . Actually that is misleading. It only takes a month for the boat to sell. It takes a year for the boat seller to become realistic on the selling price, adjust the selling price then finally sell it.

Now let’s say you DO enjoy all this. Like me and many others here, you find the time spent keeping the boat in proper working order fun, you have the time and use the boat as you think you will. In a short time the 240DA will shrink.

For new boaters that decide to keep boating, boats of this sized are ‘flipped’ meaning the owner decides to move to a larger boat.

This would not apply of you were buying a open bow trailer boat. Since you are buying a express cruiser I assume you are looking at cruising, perhaps other things as well, however this boat is in the cruiser category so that is its primary mission.

Just giving you some friendly advice, consider a 3-4 year old, but in excellent condition 260DA with all the features you are looking for including the air conditioning. The price of the 240DA plus adding the vacuflush head added will put you in the same general price range.
 
That does not appear to be that bad a price. You didn't say in your initial post, have you owned a boat before? If not, have you though about going with a newer used boat to see if boating is for you?

Depreciation on a new boat looks an awful lot like a cliff when you chart it. It would not be fun to drop this kind of money on something then take it on the chin if you decide that it is not for you and it is just gathering spiders on the dock.

If you have owned one before then you know the drill with the money. :)

Edit: I just noticed that this is indeed your first boat. Buy used! You will get more for your money and there are a lot of nice late model boats out there.
 
Re: '07 240 DA Newbie: HELP I THINK SALESMAN SMELLS FRESH ME

Pakmule,

NYLA said:
......this would be my first purchase of a boat.....
Click to expand...

In my opinion, the odds of buying the right boat on your first boat, assuming you have studied and thought about it greatly before you buy, are about 1 in 4.

My intention is to keep our next boat 10 years. However we had a cruiser, a 240DA and used it for 2+ seasons and are honest with ourselves on how we use it, what we use it for and what we don’t use it for, how much we use it, what our expectations of on costs, etc, etc, etc,

For example, we LOVE sleeping on the hook. We HAVE slept on the hook many times. I have found many buy a boat with this intention however don’t end up doing it. Since we are often the only one anchored in a given bay or inlet or beached to a spot of sand on the river I am confident most other boats do not do this in our area.

Just on the other side, I expected we would have pulled out of our body of water and gone on trips in other bodies of water like the Mississippi River or cross Lake Michigan. I still hope to do those things but realize these trips will be rare, at best one trip, one time a year.

It takes a season or two to learn how you will actually use a boat versus how you think you will use it.
 
I thought I had the operating $$$ figured out before I bought, boy was I wrong :lol:

I think west marine has a wing named after me.

Exxon sends me a plaque every month for consumer of the month club.
 
Be patient.
First off forget the dealer is "throwing in" bottom paint, CG pkg, name on transome, and full fuel. Every Marine Max customer gets this free.
Alot depends on the time of year you make the purchase and any incentives Searay may have. For instance, we just bought the same boat with the options you listed PLUS AC/Heat, Vacuuflush head. snap in cabin carpet liners, and 350Mag for just under 55K. And it was an ordered boat so the wife got to pick the interior fabric colors. We went to the dealer just before the Javitts boat show and the salesman was hot to do this deal before the show to get the sale on the books before the end of December. I'm not sure you have as much leverage this time of year but the trick is to go there with the options you want and a number you want to spend and be willing to walk if the dealer can't meet your number. You'll see how fast his number comes down.
 
All sound advice so far. I would add, why not ask MM if they have a boat equipped exactly the way you want it at another location that could perhaps be transferred to them and then cut your best deal on that boat. I’ll bet it would be cheaper than paying to retrofit systems in the boat you are currently looking at. (i.e. AC and vacuflush)

When I was shopping for my 300 last year, a must have was a generator. The MM near me had several boats but none with a genset. They of course offered to add one at about 12K to any boat. By shopping a few more weeks, I found a 300 equipped exactly how I wanted at a price less than the best deal at MM without the generator. I think persistence can pay, if you have the time, when boat shopping.
 
I will add one more thing;

A 240DA has a unique spot in the market in my mind because it is a cruiser AND it is trailerable. I am sure you can put a 260DA on a trailer. . .but that boat has a stated DRY weight of 7500 lbs, vs 5600 lbs of the 240DA.

I for one would not want to tow a 260DA -> I don't want to learn how to be a professional boat hauler!

A 240DA, however, is more managable on a trailer. So. . if you intend to trailer more than twice a year, that is the cruiser to get. If you don't want to trailer. . . .I think you want a bigger cruiser!!
 
Thanks so much this is all really helpful information. You raised points that I hadn't even considered. I'm going to make some more calls today and come to a decision on what I am going to do. I'll keep you posted.

PS: I'll still be checking the boards if anyone has any other comments. Thanks again.

NYLA
 
Like you said it is a 2007 boat and you dealing with marine max.
mm prices are set by HQ and sales people don't have too much room to take them down but you can try to get 2-5k off original "discounted " price.
it may be easier to get some freebies - maybe discounted price on radar with free installation, upgraded GPS etc than get price down a lot
 
boatmailster said:
Like you said it is a 2007 boat and you dealing with marine max.
mm prices are set by HQ and sales people don't have too much room to take them down but you can try to get 2-5k off original "discounted " price.
it may be easier to get some freebies - maybe discounted price on radar with free installation, upgraded GPS etc than get price down a lot
Click to expand...

I find that hard to believe. If they wanna sell the boat they will do what they have to to sell it.

I bought mine from MM last October. They were running a sepecial getting rid of the 06's and they had already marked the boat down over 10k off the MSRP after I negotiated another 3-4k off I had my dad go to the boat show and have them price the same boat which a different sales guy ended up giving him another 3-4k off which I took a copy of that my dad was offered to my sales guy and they were rather embarrased but they wanted to sell th boat so they gave me the additional off.

I put 0 down and financed the whole thing and am no where near upside down like most new boat owners put themselves in.

Yea it was my first boat purchase but not the first time I've have to negotiate the a deal.

Basically if they are not willing to give you the boat for what you want to pay for it walk away. They only make money selling boats not showing them to people.
 
Morpheus said:
Basically if they are not willing to give you the boat for what you want to pay for it walk away. They only make money selling boats not showing them to people.
Click to expand...

Like I wrote, there is (but not too much) room to negotiate.
If you want to buy 50k boat offering them 30k - they let you walk
away
 
Yes. . .but remember that a boat is only worth what you are willing to pay for it.

I ran into this problem when buying the last car: I could get a certain used car for $2000 below "blue book". It was a really good DEAL -> but a really bad VALUE.

Lesson learned: You shouldn't buy a honda/toyota 3 years old used! Paying 80% value for a car with only 50% life remaining is bad. I walked away and got something else that made more sense.

Same logic applies to boats: Don't buy what you can't/don't want to afford. But accept that the dealer needs to eat as well.
 
boatmailster said:
Morpheus said:
Basically if they are not willing to give you the boat for what you want to pay for it walk away. They only make money selling boats not showing them to people.
Click to expand...

Like I wrote, there is (but not too much) room to negotiate.
If you want to buy 50k boat offering them 30k - they let you walk
away
Click to expand...

Right I wasn't meaning make them pay you to take the boat from them (where they are not making a dime), I was meaning is they'd rather make a little money they have a lost sale. I actually have found the boat buying experience better then the buying a car. No matter what my question is my sales guy has been available 7 days a week either at the office or they forward my call to his cell and he's always happy to answer my questions or give me advice. I know this has nothing to do with the price directly but tell me a car dealer that does that. For me if I paid more then I should I got my money's worth.

So what I'm getting at is besides the actuall value of the boat consider what else you might be getting from MM. See if you can find other customers who have bought boats there and see how they have been treated after the sale. Paying a little extra based on another dealer down the road but having the outstanding service is worth it to me.
 
Morpheus said:
[So what I'm getting at is besides the actuall value of the boat consider what else you might be getting from MM. See if you can find other customers who have bought boats there and see how they have been treated after the sale. Paying a little extra based on another dealer down the road but having the outstanding service is worth it to me.
Click to expand...


Here in NY there is no choice of another sea ray dealer
Since SS3 was taken over things are not the same :(
 
Have you thought about buying a slightly used boat? I just recently purchased a 260DA 2003 with only 100 hours and got it for 10k less than what your buying new. It's just a thought and I wasn't sure how much boating experience you have.
 
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