2018 NY tax return Results...

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by mnm99, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. KevinC

    KevinC Well-Known Member

    Feb 25, 2011
    Long Island, NY
    2004 340 Sundancer
    1988 Proline Center Console - 90hp Mariner/Mercury
    1969 Boston Whaler
    Twin 8.1 V-drives
    ... and this is why my accountant loves when they change the tax laws. Regardless of whether or not the taxpayers win or loose the accountants make more money because of the confusion.

    -Kevin
     
  2. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    You are correct that this year some of the changes were positive for us and some were negative for us. I'd predict alot of people will have a smaller total tax bill. In my example I did use the new tax table, it's benefit is included. I isolated that popular topic, SALT, and showed the effect with it and without it in 2018. If you've paid more SALT than 10,000, the cap has cost you money compared to no cap. That's assuming your total of itemized deductions is larger than the new standard deductions. If they're not it's a moot point.

    In my example for 2018 I said my total deductions were X+10,000. I phrased it that way because the example started at taxable income, it wasn't necessary to know the total of itemized deductions, just that of it 10,000 was SALT. I'll now give X a value.

    -I'm single
    -The 2018 single standard deduction is 12,000 but.....
    -I am able to itemize, my total itemized deductions are 32,000
    -10,000 is the new allowable cap SALT deduction, 22,000 is other allowable deductions(these other deductions are X)
    -my 2018 taxable income is 150,000, my 2018 total tax liability is 30,290
    -property taxes are high here, I actually paid 26,000 in SALT taxes but the cap limits deductibility to 10,000
    -if there was no cap on SALT in 2018 I could deduct the other 16,000 too(26,000-10,000)
    -my 2018 taxable income would've been 134,000 and my total tax liability would've been 26,450
    -the SALT cap cost me some money, 30,290-26,450 = 3,840 bucks

    That was the example in detail. This is the easy way.
    -Uncle Sam capped SALT, he won't allow me to deduct the other 16,000. What's that going to cost me?
    -that 16,000 is in the new 24% bracket, 16,000 X .24 = 3,840 bucks
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  3. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Active Member

    275
    Sep 12, 2009
    IL
    281
    V8
    You want your cake and eat it too. You don't get the reduced tax rate without the SALT cap. So it's a phantom argument. You either get no SALT cap and a 28% rate (2017) or the SALT cap and a 24% rate (2018).
     
    Jaybeaux likes this.
  4. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Look at it this way. What if they had made all the same changes this year except they never touched SALT. But next year your accountant says 'they've made one more change, they've capped SALT at 10,000 and won't allow you to deduct the full amount anymore'. What would that one change next year cost you? Using the same amount from my example it would cost you 16,000 x .24
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  5. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Active Member

    275
    Sep 12, 2009
    IL
    281
    V8
    Right, that's a fantasy world that doesn't exist. They didn't and wouldn't do that. "Modern" thinking on tax reform is to move towards a flatter tax with no deductions. Deductions skew the system and create "unfairness." For example, why should a homeowner get to deduct interest when a renter is unable? Sure we can come up with "policy justifications," but it creates unfairness to renters. People go bat crap crazy when they talk about eliminating deductions (even though you're getting lower rates) so they took a baby step.

    If I earn $100,000 gross and pay a 20% tax, I pay $20,000. If I earn $100,000, get a bunch of deductions, get a "taxable income" of $80,000 and pay a 25% tax on that, I am at the same $20,000. Either way, my net tax rate is 20%. It should make no difference to me -- save for paying my accountant to work the deductions.
     
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  6. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    I think this is why Warren Buffet said a few years back that he paid less personal income tax than his secretary.
    You’ve got a bunch of career politicians who have no clue what they’re doing writing tax laws that wind up being thousands of pages long and take an army of accountants to truly understand.
    If you have Warren Buffet kind of money you can keep a bunch of them on your payroll to beat the system.
    That’s why the really big guys “lobby” the crooks in Washington and donate so much to their “campaign funds”. You know.........the “Campaign Funds” they use for private planes, retreats at resorts, fine dining in expensive DC restaurants, and to cover the payroll they keep their close friends and family members on.
    Those DC politicians may not know a thing about business, economics, budgeting, etc., but they sure as hell know how to add thousands of pages of loopholes in to the tax codes to keep those millions in campaign contributions coming in.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
    MonacoMike likes this.
  7. mnm99

    mnm99 Well-Known Member

    Oct 2, 2015
    Long Island
    2004 340 SeaRay Sundancer
    Twin 8.1 Merc
    Thank you. For explaining that....When people look at the lower tax tables they think we pay lower taxes. Because of the SALT and all the other deductions taken away I paid more also.
     
  8. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    You've put up alot of information in this thread. I know you have to write Uncle Sam a check but at this point, unless I missed something, it's not clear to me how you ended up.

    The simplest way would be like Jaybeaux has asked in his survey thread, divide the total tax liability by the total taxable income for each year and compare those numbers. It's two numbers from each return, do the calculation. All variables, income, expense, tax reg changes, are being covered in that calculation, you'll know exactly how you did.

    I'm surprised you don't have a summary or comparison sheet with your return. This isn't the old days with guys wearing visors and sleeve garters toiling away.
     
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  9. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    97 270 Sundancer
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    8.2 Mercs,
    7.4 BII
    260hp Alpha 1
    Nope, they wear different garters now. LOL

    MM
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
    Woody likes this.
  10. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Makes me wonder. What's a virile young fellow do nowdays? Are you allowed to ask if a girl is a real one before the relationship goes to far? The idea that 'youse just takes your chances' don't work for me. :eek:What the fk is that?:eek:
     
  11. mnm99

    mnm99 Well-Known Member

    Oct 2, 2015
    Long Island
    2004 340 SeaRay Sundancer
    Twin 8.1 Merc
    And it's not the SALT deduction only. It's Lines of credit interest (big for me), CPA fees, Work cloths, and a couple other things. Most are not big, but help the over all tax bill.
     
  12. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    For me, I'm not going to fret about things. Like I said at the start of these tax threads, I'm going to wait until my return is done so I can compare this year with last.

    All I hope for is that Tumps tax package gets a fair review. With all the emphasis put on 'refunds' I have my doubts. This little piece of 'reporting' is an example of the medias biased/negative lean, all they want to do is stir the pot. Listen/watch where the emphasis is.....it's on refunds, refund good....no refund, Trump bad.
     
    OllieC likes this.
  13. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    418
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    I saw a buddy at the marina yesterday. He said he was no longer a Trump fan because the tax law changes adversely affected him. We got into a very similar discussion as this thread. The short of it is his paycheck withholdings went down, causing his net paycheck to go up. But when he did his taxes, the SALT limitation impacted him to the tune of $26k. He had to turn around and write a check to Uncle Sam for essentially the same amount that his check had increased. But like mnm99 shared, he didn't put that money aside.

    The net result was a wash. His effective tax rate was unchanged from 2017 to 2018. So I asked him to explain to me again why he was pissed! ;)
     
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  14. KevinC

    KevinC Well-Known Member

    Feb 25, 2011
    Long Island, NY
    2004 340 Sundancer
    1988 Proline Center Console - 90hp Mariner/Mercury
    1969 Boston Whaler
    Twin 8.1 V-drives
    He should be asking himself why he lets the local governments tax him so much. Too many people just allowed this to happen since they took a deduction from the Feds later. It's by far time that the Feds stopped loosing this revenue because of these deductions while the locals let taxes rise through the roof. Unfortunately, living in NY this affects me.

    Government needs to go on a diet and cut the fat to effectively reduce taxes - this includes local, state and federal - unfortunately this will never happen.

    People need to stop looking to the government for handouts and understand that when they pay less in taxes they can use that same money to buy whatever they wanted the government to paying for - and they will have their own choice as opposed to whatever is handed to them. If the tax savings was not enough to cover it then you must ask yourself why you want other people to pay for what you want.

    I don't blame people who play by the rules to take advantage of everything offered - I blame those that force everyone to pay for the luxuries of the few.

    -Kevin
     
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  15. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Wife started looking online at new construction in Delaware this weekend................
    Found some nice models less than 5 miles from a marina on the C&D canal.
    Would be nice if we could sell the kids on the idea!
     
  16. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    97 270 Sundancer
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    8.2 Mercs,
    7.4 BII
    260hp Alpha 1
    Well you all should be pleased the your governor went to Trump to beg for a handout to offset their 2.3 billion deficit.

    The Trump reply was awesome, paraphrased here, Go Frack Yourself.

    Trump suggested that NY could offset the SALT cap by approving fracking and pipelines.

    MM
     
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  17. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    I love it!
     
  18. Boat Guy

    Boat Guy Well-Known Member

    Fracking is not the answer... Fracking is extremely destructive to the environment... I know this is a tax thread so consider this a PSA...Now back to reg. scheduled programming....
     
  19. mnm99

    mnm99 Well-Known Member

    Oct 2, 2015
    Long Island
    2004 340 SeaRay Sundancer
    Twin 8.1 Merc
    Well I started this thread for the people that live in NEW YORK... I didn't want to compare other states, because I knew they would make out better. Over all My total Federal tax bill was more then last year and I ended up having to change my deductions to Married at a single rate, just to get close to not owing next year. I did that for my wife and myself. My wife alone lost $300 a check now by doing that. One of my other main points were that he was touting we are all getting more in our check because of this. Correct! , but I had to give it all back along with my state refund and some....
     
    Chris-380 likes this.
  20. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    I get it that you had problems with withholding/refunds but did you compare 'effective rate', this year to last?
     

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