300 Sundancer questions.

Trying to figure it all out. The starboard engine has a serious nock. I think its toast. Port engine is ok.
If I'm going through the process I might want to kick it up a knotch to a bit more HP. Help get the girl 9n plane a bit quicker and easier. We would be good for a long while then. Love the boat. Great on Smith Mountain Lake in VA.
When I bought my 2004 300DA in 2011 the previous owner had just replaced the port engine with a long block due to an injector failure burning up a cylinder. The starboard had 640 hours on it. I bought it with no concerns about the remaining life of the starboard. Potomac River boat with 350 Mag engines.
 
Here's my dilemma. If I replace my 2 engines with 383 engines. Does the 350 mag mpi injection system bolt right on and operate as is ? Ecm all work and recognizes what to do on the new engines etc. Has anyone bought marine long block engines from Raptor Engines out of Oregon? They have engines with a 7 yr warranty. 383's with high torque.
2005 Sea Ray 300DA with Bravo 3 drives.
 
Here's my dilemma. If I replace my 2 engines with 383 engines. Does the 350 mag mpi injection system bolt right on and operate as is ? Ecm all work and recognizes what to do on the new engines etc. Has anyone bought marine long block engines from Raptor Engines out of Oregon? They have engines with a 7 yr warranty. 383's with high torque.
2005 Sea Ray 300DA with Bravo 3 drives.
The injector duty cycle will increase. The duty cycle is the relationship between when the injector is open and closed. The larger displacement the engine the greater duty cycle will be demanded on the injectors. If you should operate the engines continuously at high RPM / load the injector duty cycle will increase say from 80 percent to 95 percent; they will get hotter and tend to fail due to heat in extreme situations. I would never operate injectors over 95% continuously. Plus in extreme cases the ECM simply can't cope with the higher duty cycle demand.
I would be more concerned with the camshaft in the 383 engines. Longer duration (performance) camshafts tend to cause engines to operate at higher intake pressures (less vacuum) and allow exhaust reversion into the intake system (reversion causes that chopity chop sound from using large lift and duration camshafts) at the lower engine RPM's; This will be telling the fuel injection system that more fuel is demanded when it really isn't and completely mess up the performance and economy of the engine.
 
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The injector duty cycle will increase. The duty cycle is the relationship between when the injector is open and closed. The larger displacement the engine the greater duty cycle will be demanded on the injectors. If you should operate the engines continuously at high RPM / load the injector duty cycle will increase say from 80 percent to 95 percent; they will get hotter and tend to fail due to heat in extreme situations. I would never operate injectors over 95% continuously. Plus in extreme cases the ECM simply can't cope with the higher duty cycle demand.
I would be more concerned with the camshaft in the 383 engines. Longer duration (performance) camshafts tend to cause engines to operate at higher intake pressures (less vacuum) and allow exhaust reversion into the intake system (reversion causes that chopity chop sound from using large lift and duration camshafts) at the lower engine RPM's; This will be telling the fuel injection system that more fuel is demanded when it really isn't and completely mess up the performance and economy of the engine.
What is necessary then to install a larger engine in place of the 350's that were stock ? I know that it does take place.
 
What is necessary then to install a larger engine in place of the 350's that were stock ? I know that it does take place.
First regarding the injectors - I don't know how hard you run your boat. If you cruise on plane and generally easy on the engines then you should be good with the injectors you have. I would definitely send them out and have them cleaned and calibrated; RC Engineering is a good company to do that. If on the other hand you run the engines hard and at high load/rpm's then you need to step up to larger injectors - it's that simple.
You really need a camshaft that will be compatible with a MAP sensor based fuel injection system. MAP is Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor; that all important pressure sensor is what tells the computer what the engine load is and how much fuel is demanded. If the camshaft raises the manifold pressure then the computer will step up the injector duty cycle and erroneously enrich the fuel in the engine. So, I would base the camshaft size on what is in the 350's with a bit more lift but no more duration. Talk to the engine builder/supplier about your configuration; they can help.
One more thing keep the piston compression ratio the same as in the 350's; they are probably 9.5:1 or 10:1 but I really don't know...
 
First regarding the injectors - I don't know how hard you run your boat. If you cruise on plane and generally easy on the engines then you should be good with the injectors you have. I would definitely send them out and have them cleaned and calibrated; RC Engineering is a good company to do that. If on the other hand you run the engines hard and at high load/rpm's then you need to step up to larger injectors - it's that simple.
You really need a camshaft that will be compatible with a MAP sensor based fuel injection system. MAP is Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor; that all important pressure sensor is what tells the computer what the engine load is and how much fuel is demanded. If the camshaft raises the manifold pressure then the computer will step up the injector duty cycle and erroneously enrich the fuel in the engine. So, I would base the camshaft size on what is in the 350's with a bit more lift but no more duration. Talk to the engine builder/supplier about your configuration; they can help.
One more thing keep the piston compression ratio the same as in the 350's; they are probably 9.5:1 or 10:1 but I really don't know...
Thank You.
Appreciate the help.
I dont run my boat hard.
 
I connected to dockside water yesterday and couldn't get any water to flow from the faucets on the boat.

What can cause this? Where is a blockage most likely?
 
I did explore the dock spigot, making sure the water was on. As I connected it to the intake in the transom compartment, it was hard to get a good seal at first -- the water was leaking there -- it was obvious that the spigot to was supplying water through the hose.
 
Do you mean that the levers aren't centered when the neutral detent is met, or that the outdrives are still driving with the levers in neutral with the detent met? If it's the prior, the levers can be removed and re-positioned by loosening the Allen screw on the bottom of the lever. Push them to full forward WOT, and you'll see a small hole at the base of the lever. That's where the Allen resides. If it's the latter, you have some cable adjustment/replacement in front of you. I just went through this with my '92 and was able to get some cable lube snaked down by opening the controls. Kinda funky, but it got me out of the cable replacement camp. They work so much better! To get to them:

The chrome cover can be removed by pressing in a little plastic dot along the forward edge. Mine promptly broke, so I'm guessing a dot of RTV will have to do as it's going back together. 'Can't blame it after thirty years... What you don't see here is the two through-screws fore and aft that hold the controls in place, as I already took them out. They slide left-to-right through the four corner brackets.
IMG-1432.jpg


I have a 2007 300DA and my shifters are well aft of centre when the neutral detent is met.

I believe it is a Commander 4500 GenII unit, shift cables replaced this year with genuine Quicksilver parts.

I would love to get the alignment fixed... assuming it is similar to yours, do you loosen the allen screw to reposition and then tighten?

a related question... should I grease the mechanism while I have access?

Thanks!

IMG_7248.jpg
 
@Deak that is normal for neutral to be farther back. Even when I press the side buttons and move them forward (to rev in neutral) they are still not quite at 12:00 (looking from the side)
 
I have a 2007 300DA and my shifters are well aft of centre when the neutral detent is met.

I believe it is a Commander 4500 GenII unit, shift cables replaced this year with genuine Quicksilver parts.

I would love to get the alignment fixed... assuming it is similar to yours, do you loosen the allen screw to reposition and then tighten?

a related question... should I grease the mechanism while I have access?

Thanks!

View attachment 110140
Like @Deak pointed out, that's pretty normal, assuming you're more interested in getting full throttle in Forward rather than Reverse ;). It makes it easier to jockey the two to get the engines to sync when the levers are straight up as compared to 'way forward. However, you're correct; they can be repositioned. Find the Allen screws on the bottom of the levers (opposite the hand grip), and you can reposition them. Note that they're splined and have to be pulled off to move.

As for lubing, I would hope they hit the wear points when they were replacing the cables. It's quite the job to get into (see my earlier post http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/300-sundancer-questions.458/page-96#post-1240102)
 
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I connected to dockside water yesterday and couldn't get any water to flow from the faucets on the boat.

What can cause this? Where is a blockage most likely?

We dont have the same boat but when I got mine, I had this exact issue.
For me, there was an inline pressure regulator BEHIND the fresh water inlet.
It was this:
https://www.boatid.com/jabsco/45-psi-white-in-line-water-pressure-regulator-mpn-44411-0045.html

Check your parts manual for confirmation.

FWIW, I took my out from behind the water inlet and now, when I hook up to dockside water, i put it in line on the hose.

Edit:
looks like you have a pressure regulator integrated into the water inlet. They're easily replaced
Page 55 of your parts manual:
upload_2021-8-9_12-19-34.png
 
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I've never actually used it before but the owners manual says the water breaker has to be turned off. Not sure if that means there is some bypass or valve that blocks you from having the freshwater hookup AND the water pump on at the same time?
 
New Topic:
Symptom: Starboard 6.2 MPI Mercruiser Engine cranks but will not start.
Situation: Would start on some days and not on others - until last week when would not start at all. Again, engine cranks so not a battery issue. New Fuel Filters as of Oct 2020.
When starter toggle at helm pressed in to first stage I do not hear the priming of the fuel pump.
Pressed circuit breaker knob (pic) even though it was not tripped, and located fuel pump relay (more aft relay next to fuse casement (blurry pic).
Circuit breaker.jpg


Fuse and Relays.jpg


Inspected fuel pump relay, removed and opened, and problem fixed (fuel pump primes and engine starts). Fuses look fine.
Perhaps a faulty relay on it's last legs? Going to replace part # 86-865202T and watch for recurrence.
Anyone experience similar problem?
Thanks.
Relay Fuel Pump.jpg
 
New Topic:
Symptom: Starboard 6.2 MPI Mercruiser Engine cranks but will not start.
Situation: Would start on some days and not on others - until last week when would not start at all. Again, engine cranks so not a battery issue. New Fuel Filters as of Oct 2020.
When starter toggle at helm pressed in to first stage I do not hear the priming of the fuel pump.
Pressed circuit breaker knob (pic) even though it was not tripped, and located fuel pump relay (more aft relay next to fuse casement (blurry pic).
View attachment 110300

View attachment 110301

Inspected fuel pump relay, removed and opened, and problem fixed (fuel pump primes and engine starts). Fuses look fine.
Perhaps a faulty relay on it's last legs? Going to replace part # 86-865202T and watch for recurrence.
Anyone experience similar problem?
Thanks.
View attachment 110299

Recheck and look very closely at the relay connector. Often they over heat and the female terminals spread causing a poor connection.
 
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Do you mean that the levers aren't centered when the neutral detent is met, or that the outdrives are still driving with the levers in neutral with the detent met? If it's the prior, the levers can be removed and re-positioned by loosening the Allen screw on the bottom of the lever. Push them to full forward WOT, and you'll see a small hole at the base of the lever. That's where the Allen resides. If it's the latter, you have some cable adjustment/replacement in front of you. I just went through this with my '92 and was able to get some cable lube snaked down by opening the controls. Kinda funky, but it got me out of the cable replacement camp. They work so much better! To get to them:

The chrome cover can be removed by pressing in a little plastic dot along the forward edge. Mine promptly broke, so I'm guessing a dot of RTV will have to do as it's going back together. 'Can't blame it after thirty years... What you don't see here is the two through-screws fore and aft that hold the controls in place, as I already took them out. They slide left-to-right through the four corner brackets.
IMG-1432.jpg


Once these are out, pull the controls up and away. Watch for the cabling on the left controller, as there's no easy way to disconnect it from below. I was able to get enough slack to perform my work without disconnecting them. Be aware; mine were a royal PITA to pull out. It took much rocking and swearing to get them out of the fiberglass dash.

Remove the two screws near the blue label to access the inner workings:
IMG-1436.jpg


Once inside, these actually looked pretty good, considering their age. I merely re-distributed the grease around the wear spots (smeared it around with my grubby finger) and shot some cable lube down the shift and throttle cables.
IMG-1435.jpg


Before going back together, reach inside with a small wrench and tighten the mounting bracket screws. Mine were crazy loose. Fortunately, they were lock nuts, so were still in place. Hopefully, you can get away without having to replace the cables.
Nater, as I stated prior, this was quite in depth. again thanks. I Have an 86 300SD and my shift cables are terrifying. They chose to stick or get stiff when you need them most, in and out of the dock. I am thinking of replacing them this haul out. Re-reading your post, I was wondering if I should take the unit out like you did, shoot some oil down both sides or just rip them out (by the way, what oil did you use)? Is there a way to test to see if there is freedom without putting everything back together? If I have to spend the money for a full replacement, ok. Just don't want to spend money I don't have to.
 
...I was wondering if I should take the unit out like you did, shoot some oil down both sides or just rip them out...
It wasn't as bad as I originally made it seem (time heals all wounds?) since the worst part was figuring out how it comes apart. Once I was in there, I was able to dribble some lithium chain and cable lube into the cables. It definitely made a huge difference in my case. YMMV

Is there a way to test to see if there is freedom without putting everything back together?
Absolutely! When I first got into mine, the cables were so stiff that I almost couldn't actuate the shift cables while holding the control mechanism in my hand. I'm thankful that the dash wasn't cracked from my earlier reefing on the levers! Once the cables were lubed, I could easily move the levers with one hand on the control box, and the other on the lever. It's certainly worth trying before snaking in new cables.
 
I am quit likely may have to replace the throttle cables on my 86 300 Sundancer, oiling doesn't work. I have twin Alfa one, Gen One 260's. Trying to get ahead and get an idea of cost, I have been trying to locate part numbers. When referring to the owners manual, it says 'see Engine Manual'. I don't have one. Same with my impeller (wanna change both during layup). Anyone know where I can get that info or a manual?
 

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