410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

Strecker25 said:
no, I’m not positive. I’m going to press the other side out tomorrow and compare how it lines up, that side runs beautifully with nearly no resistance.

I’m not really excited to pull the strut unless I really have to so fingers crossed. What I can say is the ‘bad’ side is enough off center in the shaft log that is easily noticeable from about 10’ away so I’m really hoping that’s the issue

I haven’t pressed the new bearing in either so I could try and shift the engine a bit and see if it helps with the strut alignment.
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Does the shaft stay in the same place when rotated?
 
techmitch said:
Does the shaft stay in the same place when rotated?
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yes, it does. I didn’t check runout with a dial yet though

the other thing that happens is when I disconnect the coupler from the trans the shaft pushes in the opposite direction of what I see in the strut, so it’s like the engine is twisted and putting lateral pressure on the shaft
 
Strecker25 said:
no, I’m not positive. I’m going to press the other side out tomorrow and compare how it lines up, that side runs beautifully with nearly no resistance.

I’m not really excited to pull the strut unless I really have to so fingers crossed. What I can say is the ‘bad’ side is enough off center in the shaft log that is easily noticeable from about 10’ away so I’m really hoping that’s the issue

I haven’t pressed the new bearing in either so I could try and shift the engine a bit and see if it helps with the strut alignment.
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A couple of thoughts - Is the shaft centered in the shaft log? If so then quite likely a bent strut. If the boat is sitting level side to side you can drop a plumb bob from the centerline of the strut mounting flange and see if it generally aligns with the strut bore. Sea Ray didn't use rocket science when bedding the struts so don't expect three digits to the right accuracy.
At this point I would pull the shaft seal back, leave the shaft coupled to the gear and align it side to side by moving the engine/gear to the strut bore center before pressing in the cutlass. Once you do that rotate the shaft to see if it is grossly bent. Then press in the cutlass bearing then put the dial indicator on several locations on the shaft to determine runout. At this point you will be close enough to get the boat back in the water then in a week do a final alignment.
 
ttmott said:
A couple of thoughts - Is the shaft centered in the shaft log? If so then quite likely a bent strut. If the boat is sitting level side to side you can drop a plumb bob from the centerline of the strut mounting flange and see if it generally aligns with the strut bore. Sea Ray didn't use rocket science when bedding the struts so don't expect three digits to the right accuracy.
At this point I would pull the shaft seal back, leave the shaft coupled to the gear and align it side to side to the strut bore before pressing in the cutlass. Once you do that rotate the shaft to see if it is grossly bent. Then press in the cutlass bearing. At this point you will be close enough to get the boat back in the water then in a week do a final alignment.
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not centered in the log, and by my unmeasured estimation somewhere between 1/2”-3/4” biased to the starboard side. It’s very obvious when just looking at it from the stern

I like the idea of pulling the dripless back. Any magic to reseal it or it’s just clamps?
 
Strecker25 said:
not centered in the log, and by my unmeasured estimation somewhere between 1/2”-3/4” biased to the starboard side. It’s very obvious when just looking at it from the stern

I like the idea of pulling the dripless back. Any magic to reseal it or it’s just clamps?
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no magic; just the clamps and pull it back; get in there with some scotch-bright and clean the shaft so a burr or something doesn't damage the seal. Speaking of seals = when was the last time those seals were changed?
Definitely move one end of the engine over. I'd probably look at the lateral adjustment slots on the motor mounts and pick the two that look out of adjustment and slide those two over to get the shaft roughly centered in the strut.
 
ttmott said:
no magic; just the clamps and pull it back; get in there with some scotch-bright and clean the shaft so a burr or something doesn't damage the seal.
Definitely move one end of the engine over. I'd probably look at the lateral adjustment slots on the motor mounts and pick the one that looks out of adjustment and slide those two over to get the shaft roughly centered in the strut.
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thanks! I’ll go there first. Now to find a way to move that giant hunk of metal :)

and to the question about is the boat level, it’s not unfortunately
 
Strecker25 said:
thanks! I’ll go there first. Now to find a way to move that giant hunk of metal :)

and to the question about is the boat level, it’s not unfortunately
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If you rotate the engine and the shaft looks whacked in alignment between the shaft log and strut bore then maybe the entire engine needs to slide over. This is where moving tiny bits at a time; like 1/16" and sneaking up on it is best.
My mechanic has a sweet port-o-power setup that he uses and makes it look easy.
 
ttmott said:
no magic; just the clamps and pull it back; get in there with some scotch-bright and clean the shaft so a burr or something doesn't damage the seal. Speaking of seals = when was the last time those seals were changed?
Definitely move one end of the engine over. I'd probably look at the lateral adjustment slots on the motor mounts and pick the two that look out of adjustment and slide those two over to get the shaft roughly centered in the strut.
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I was able to get the shaft centered in the log but it is still off at the aft end of the strut. The shaft does not appear to have any runout.

so, the strut is either Ben or out of whack in some other way and I guess it needs to come off. I can’t envision any way of bending it back in place without damaging the hull.

I can easily got to all six nuts that hold the strut in place but the bolts appear to be carrier bolts. I’m assuming you have to remove the shaft, take off the nuts, break the silicone seal around the strut and then pry off the strut from its bedding. Probably 5200, which won’t be fun.
 
Ryan, did you see this one?
I take no responsibility for giving you any ideas :) But leave it to an old blowboter to MacGyver their way out of a bind.
Good luck with your project.
 
my3sons said:
Ryan, did you see this one?
I take no responsibility for giving you any ideas :) But leave it to an old blowboter to MacGyver their way out of a bind.
Good luck with your project.
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lol! I did actually see that. I must admit I’m a little tempted because I have a large flat on the inside of the tunnel where a nice 4x4 railroad tie lays nicely. Coupled with the aforementioned harbor freight hydraulic Jack I wonder if I can coax it back a bit. It’s really not that far off...
 
That guy's strut was really bent. I have never done any thing with struts, but I know that at the boat yard, when they have a strut that is out of wack but not noticeably bent, they remove them and shim them to get the result they want.
 
my3sons said:
That guy's strut was really bent. I have never done any thing with struts, but I know that at the boat yard, when they have a strut that is out of wack but not noticeably bent, they remove them and shim them to get the result they want.
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being all bronze and only off laterally (not much of a twist) I seriously might try a little force and heat.

It’s pulling it out of the bedding in order to remove and have straightened that has me a little gunshy.
 
Ryan, I was just going through some of the photos I took of things I did to the boat this year and came across the dripless seal replacement project. Not trying to spend your money, but now's the time if they are old, and if the one side has been side loaded form the alignment issue. I'm just saying. :) They're super easy to do, the hard part is unhooking the shaft from the tranny and pulling the coupler and I think you have already done that.
 
my3sons said:
Ryan, I was just going through some of the photos I took of things I did to the boat this year and came across the dripless seal replacement project. Not trying to spend your money, but now's the time if they are old, and if the one side has been side loaded form the alignment issue. I'm just saying. :) They're super easy to do, the hard part is unhooking the shaft from the tranny and pulling the coupler and I think you have already done that.
Click to expand...

it’s been a long time, I’ll be doing both of them for sure. There’s a spare on the shaft but I’m gonna swap both seals on each side. The housings are in pretty good shape
 
Bedding a strut -
I watched a mechanic do a large strut in the marina. Here is his process -
  • Remove shaft and strut and send them for refurbishment with propeller
  • Grind any bedding compound from the strut and hull.
  • Drill and tap for 3/8" machine screws four holes in the strut base corners as to not interfere with the strut mounting bolts; these will be for jacking screws to aid in alignment.
  • Install the cutlass bearing in the strut.
  • Using some temporary all-thread bolts in four locations and long screws with jamb nuts in the tapped holes loosely hang the strut using the all-thread from the hull.
  • Slide the shaft through the strut and connect to the engine.
  • Center the shaft in the log and establish parallel to both keel and other shaft including setting shaft angle. This is the initial engine alignment.
  • Screw in the jack screws until they stop against the hull and tighten the jamb nuts.
  • Tighten the four all-thread screws. Now the strut is tight to the hull.
  • Spin the shaft by hand and ensure it turns freely. Check alignment with the keel and other shaft. All-thread bolts and jack screws may need to be tweaked to get it just right. There should be a gap between the strut base and hull that the jack screws are maintaining.
  • Remove the shaft.
  • Loosen the all-thread bolts and allow the strut to hang away from the hull. Do not change the settings on the jack screws.
  • Coat the strut base, all-thread bolts, and jacking screws with a heavy coat of wax.
  • Mix an epoxy thickened to a peanut butter consistency with cabosil and apply to the hull so it is thick enough to fill any gap between the hull and strut. This is your shim material.
  • Reinstall / bed the strut into the thickened epoxy and tighten the all-thread bolts. This should bed and fix the strut exactly where it was when aligned with the shaft. Allow the epoxy to cure. It is a good idea here to slide the shaft back in and reverify it's alignment.
  • After epoxy cure remove the jack screws and bore through the remaining mounting holes with the correct size bit for the permanent bolts then remove the all-thread bolts and clean up those holes. The inside of the hull will need to be cleaned as the epoxy probably oozed through.
  • Remove the strut. You now should have a perfectly formed hull to fit the strut. Clean any wax from the strut.
  • Apply 3M 4200 or other marine adhesive to the base of the strut as well as the bolts and reinstall to the cured epoxy then install all of the permanent strut bolts.
  • Fill the tapped holes with 3M 4200 or install and seal some short bronze bolts.
  • The strut is reinstalled.
 
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Thanks Tom. When I hit a submerged deadhead and bent my stbd shaft, I just bit the bullet and bought a new one,,,around $4000 from the usual sources, $3200 from flounder Pounder...
 
ttmott said:
Bedding a strut -
I watched a mechanic do a large strut in the marina. Here is his process -
  • Remove shaft and strut and send them for refurbishment with propeller
  • Grind any bedding compound from the strut and hull.
  • Drill and tap for 3/8" machine screws four holes in the strut base corners as to not interfere with the strut mounting bolts; these will be for jacking screws to aid in alignment.
  • Install the cutlass bearing in the strut.
  • Using some temporary all-thread bolts in four locations and long screws with jamb nuts in the tapped holes loosely hang the strut using the all-thread from the hull.
  • Slide the shaft through the strut and connect to the engine.
  • Center the shaft in the log and establish parallel to both keel and other shaft including setting shaft angle. This is the initial engine alignment.
  • Screw in the jack screws until they stop against the hull and tighten the jamb nuts.
  • Tighten the four all-thread screws. Now the strut is tight to the hull.
  • Spin the shaft by hand and ensure it turns freely. Check alignment with the keel and other shaft. All-thread bolts and jack screws may need to be tweaked to get it just right. There should be a gap between the strut base and hull that the jack screws are maintaining.
  • Remove the shaft.
  • Loosen the all-thread bolts and allow the strut to hang away from the hull. Do not change the settings on the jack screws.
  • Coat the strut base, all-thread bolts, and jacking screws with a heavy coat of wax.
  • Mix an epoxy thickened to a peanut butter consistency with cabosil and apply to the hull so it is thick enough to fill any gap between the hull and strut. This is your shim material.
  • Reinstall / bed the strut into the thickened epoxy and tighten the all-thread bolts. This should bed and fix the strut exactly where it was when aligned with the shaft. Allow the epoxy to cure. It is a good idea here to slide the shaft back in and reverify it's alignment.
  • After epoxy cure remove the jack screws and bore through the remaining mounting holes with the correct size bit for the permanent bolts then remove the all-thread bolts and clean up those holes. The inside of the hull will need to be cleaned as the epoxy probably oozed through.
  • Remove the strut. You now should have a perfectly formed hull to fit the strut. Clean any wax from the strut.
  • Apply 3M 4200 or other marine adhesive to the base of the strut as well as the bolts and reinstall to the cured epoxy then install all of the permanent strut bolts.
  • Fill the tapped holes with 3M 4200 or install and seal some short bronze bolts.
  • The strut is reinstalled.
Click to expand...

wow, I thank you for that but it also seems like a job best left to the pros

but, If I do have to remove our strut and it’s repairable couldn’t the existing epoxy bedding be left untouched, assuming the original strut alignment was correct? Then I could clean up the 4200 and reseat it
 
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