Chicago,Chicago, Whata Ya Do ................

B

Bt Doctur

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2010
3,971
New Jersey
Boat Info
Ex SRV 240 Weekender twin
Engines
in between
Typical of this lovely infested city
39 shot, 7 fatally, in Chicago Memorial Day weekend gun violence
 
A beyond liberal government and a Soros backed prosecutor that believes that career gang criminals are just boys that need help, fulfilling the Utopian dream...

MM
 
Chitty, Chitty, Bang Bang

Now replace the C with S and.............................
 
A lot of the wounded are bystanders. These guys need more range time. The city ought to furnish that so they can be safer when they're shooting, sorta like some cities make sure addicts have good quality drugs and clean needles.
 
@Bt Doctur I'm not sure why someone from New Jersey would want to throw shade at ANY place in the US, let alone a great city like Chicago, but here goes:


Chicago isn’t even close to the top of the per-capita murder rate. It gets a lot of attention because uniformed people with a political agenda like to point to it. Depending on the source, Chicago is between 10th and 25th in per capita murder rate. Sources are below.

https://madison.com/news/national/t..._ff178449-607d-5f0c-8ceb-b2155884b6fc.html#31

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/04/highest-murder-rates-us-cities-list/


Chicago does have a gang problem. It has developed out of a combination of long-term cultural issues in certain parts of town, combined with limits on policing strategies that have been enacted over time. Chicago police used to be able to "hassle" people who were hanging out - charge them with disorderly conduct, throw them in jail on that pretext, hold them overnight, then drop the charges. The cops, lawyers, judges, and gang members all knew it was a sham. It kept people in line, but wasn't constitutional. When that ended, the gangs became more bold because they knew the police couldn't do anything unless they were committing a crime.

Law enforcement efforts have been effective in arresting and convicting gang leaders, but this has left a leadership gap at the top of gangs which has broken down some of the norms that would guide how gangs behaved and how they operated. Unintended consequence of good police work, but it really contributes to the current situation. This perspective comes from a criminal defense attorney who worked many of these cases and from a Judge who hears many of these cases. They are both very close to the situation and I trust their perspective.

Chicago has a brand new mayor who is working to address the gang issue – we’ll see how it goes. I think there are enough factors that are outside of local control that the gang violence can, at best, be controlled.


Regarding the Illinois gun laws, @spikedaddy99 do some research. The majority of guns recovered in crimes come from out of state. Many come from Indiana, because of the proximity to Chicago and the lax gun laws there, specifically related to private party gun sales and gun shows. Private party sales don’t require a background check. Many in-state guns come through straw purchases from two gun shops that are very close to, but outside of Chicago. Close the gun show loophole, and create a purchase database that allows the police to end straw purchases, and you will go a long way to cutting off the flow of guns.

You can reference these sources for facts:

https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017-454016983.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...me-from/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a30d0e2546ce

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...overed-chicago-crimes-come-indiana/816399001/

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2012-08-27-ct-met-gun-trace-study-20120827-story.html


“Innocent” bystanders do frequently get shot, but they also are frequently part of the same family or gathering as the targets of gang violence. I don’t have sources to support this other than anecdotes but when you listen to the news here, the bystanders are frequently on a porch with relatives, in a crowd at a party, or somehow affiliated with the targets. There are occasional stories of the true innocent bystander caught in crossfire, but it seems to be the exception.

We have seen a trend more toward expressway shootings because the neighborhoods are blanketed with police, police cameras, and shot detection technology. It is also easier to get away on the expressway. In general, these shootings miss their targets all together, but it increases the risk of true innocent bystanders getting hit. Again, unintended consequences from policing actions.


Also, before you walk away thinking I’m some liberal snowflake, I’m a certified NRA rifle instructor, a CCW permit holder, and obviously a gun owner. I’m also a person who loves the city of Chicago very much, and I get a bit frustrated with all the uniformed criticism. I ignore almost all of the political crap that people post on CSR, and I don’t have any idea why you post these things instead of talking about boating, but when you attack my town with uninformed commentary I feel the need to defend it.
 
https://heyjackass.com/

image.png
 
As a fellow Chicagoian I can confidently say it's been a chit show for 10+ years. Regardless of what yobub's numbers say, the average is more than one murder everyday as compared to less than 100 in most other cities on the per capital list. That means it's an endless drumbeat of shootings and murders.

We had a facility bordering one of troubled neighborhoods. We finally left a few years ago. We had an employee carjacked right outside the front door. There where many shootings in the neighborhood streets around the place. It started getting closer and closer. I see it on the news, there have been at least 2-3 shootings within a block of the place. The violence has spread to the better parts of town - not every night, but enough to require extra vigilance when you visit.
 
Gang problem? I have the solution.

Take about 1,000 acres out in the middle of nowhere, fence it off with a 10' tall fence topped with concertina wire, then electrify it.

Have only one gate. Put all known gang associates inside the fenced off area then throw in one gun and an unlimited amount of ammunition.

Winner take all. Since there would be a never ending supply of gang bangers it would take an unlimited supply of ammo, but that would be a helluva lot cheaper than warehousing them in prisons.
 
Our (Chicago)per-murder capita rate is low because of Chicago’s excellent ER dept and experience. With all the shooting over the past three decades we have the unfortunate expertise in gun shot wounds. It’s not the guns, police or politicians fault it’s the breakdown or lack of family and respect of life. No easy answer here.
yobub said:
@Bt Doctur I'm not sure why someone from New Jersey would want to throw shade at ANY place in the US, let alone a great city like Chicago, but here goes:


Chicago isn’t even close to the top of the per-capita murder rate. It gets a lot of attention because uniformed people with a political agenda like to point to it. Depending on the source, Chicago is between 10th and 25th in per capita murder rate. Sources are below.

https://madison.com/news/national/t..._ff178449-607d-5f0c-8ceb-b2155884b6fc.html#31

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/04/highest-murder-rates-us-cities-list/


Chicago does have a gang problem. It has developed out of a combination of long-term cultural issues in certain parts of town, combined with limits on policing strategies that have been enacted over time. Chicago police used to be able to "hassle" people who were hanging out - charge them with disorderly conduct, throw them in jail on that pretext, hold them overnight, then drop the charges. The cops, lawyers, judges, and gang members all knew it was a sham. It kept people in line, but wasn't constitutional. When that ended, the gangs became more bold because they knew the police couldn't do anything unless they were committing a crime.

Law enforcement efforts have been effective in arresting and convicting gang leaders, but this has left a leadership gap at the top of gangs which has broken down some of the norms that would guide how gangs behaved and how they operated. Unintended consequence of good police work, but it really contributes to the current situation. This perspective comes from a criminal defense attorney who worked many of these cases and from a Judge who hears many of these cases. They are both very close to the situation and I trust their perspective.

Chicago has a brand new mayor who is working to address the gang issue – we’ll see how it goes. I think there are enough factors that are outside of local control that the gang violence can, at best, be controlled.


Regarding the Illinois gun laws, @spikedaddy99 do some research. The majority of guns recovered in crimes come from out of state. Many come from Indiana, because of the proximity to Chicago and the lax gun laws there, specifically related to private party gun sales and gun shows. Private party sales don’t require a background check. Many in-state guns come through straw purchases from two gun shops that are very close to, but outside of Chicago. Close the gun show loophole, and create a purchase database that allows the police to end straw purchases, and you will go a long way to cutting off the flow of guns.

You can reference these sources for facts:

https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017-454016983.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...me-from/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a30d0e2546ce

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...overed-chicago-crimes-come-indiana/816399001/

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2012-08-27-ct-met-gun-trace-study-20120827-story.html


“Innocent” bystanders do frequently get shot, but they also are frequently part of the same family or gathering as the targets of gang violence. I don’t have sources to support this other than anecdotes but when you listen to the news here, the bystanders are frequently on a porch with relatives, in a crowd at a party, or somehow affiliated with the targets. There are occasional stories of the true innocent bystander caught in crossfire, but it seems to be the exception.

We have seen a trend more toward expressway shootings because the neighborhoods are blanketed with police, police cameras, and shot detection technology. It is also easier to get away on the expressway. In general, these shootings miss their targets all together, but it increases the risk of true innocent bystanders getting hit. Again, unintended consequences from policing actions.


Also, before you walk away thinking I’m some liberal snowflake, I’m a certified NRA rifle instructor, a CCW permit holder, and obviously a gun owner. I’m also a person who loves the city of Chicago very much, and I get a bit frustrated with all the uniformed criticism. I ignore almost all of the political crap that people post on CSR, and I don’t have any idea why you post these things instead of talking about boating, but when you attack my town with uninformed commentary I feel the need to defend it.
Click to expand...
 
yobub said:
Also, before you walk away thinking I’m some liberal snowflake, I’m a certified NRA rifle instructor, a CCW permit holder, and obviously a gun owner. I’m also a person who loves the city of Chicago very much, and I get a bit frustrated with all the uniformed criticism. I ignore almost all of the political crap that people post on CSR, and I don’t have any idea why you post these things instead of talking about boating, but when you attack my town with uninformed commentary I feel the need to defend it.
Click to expand...

Here in Indiana, the third freest state in the US, we call those comments from a Fudd. I am amazed by the audacity of blaming other states for the problems of Chicago. They belong to Chicago, and no one else. Yes other cities have problems, some have even higher percentages, but if Chicago does not fix their problem even Michigan Avenue will struggle. The number of people fleeing Illinois is astounding, the state finances are a wreck and taxes are affecting the standard of living for many middle class families. They are moving out fast.

You want to correct records, eh? Then stop saying "gun show loophole", there is no gun show loophole. All gun sales administered by a FFL, (Federal Firearms Licence) must have background checks per Federal law, no matter at the store or gun show. Then there is the matter of felons buying, or trying to buy guns, getting caught but never prosecuted, near 50,000 a year, but that is not on your list. One of those just did a big shooting in Illinois. Nope, blame Indiana and other responsible states...

MM
 
MonacoMike said:
Here in Indiana, the third freest state in the US, we call those comments from a Fudd. I am amazed by the audacity of blaming other states for the problems of Chicago. They belong to Chicago, and no one else. Yes other cities have problems, some have even higher percentages, but if Chicago does not fix their problem even Michigan Avenue will struggle. The number of people fleeing Illinois is astounding, the state finances are a wreck and taxes are affecting the standard of living for many middle class families. They are moving out fast.

You want to correct records, eh? Then stop saying "gun show loophole", there is no gun show loophole. All gun sales administered by a FFL, (Federal Firearms Licence) must have background checks per Federal law, no matter at the store or gun show. Then there is the matter of felons buying, or trying to buy guns, getting caught but never prosecuted, near 50,000 a year, but that is not on your list. One of those just did a big shooting in Illinois. Nope, blame Indiana and other responsible states...

MM
Click to expand...
Yes, FFL's are required to perform background checks. The phrase "Gun Show Loophole" refers to individual gun sales at gun shows that aren't subject to a background check.
[URL]https://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/gun-show-firearms-bankground-checks-state-laws-map.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-show-laws-by-state-721345[/URL]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

There are many factors that contribute to the issue. The idea that Indiana doesn't contribute to the issue just isn't supported by facts.
 
yobub said:
Yes, FFL's are required to perform background checks. The phrase "Gun Show Loophole" refers to individual gun sales at gun shows that aren't subject to a background check.
https://www.governing.com/gov-data/...irearms-bankground-checks-state-laws-map.html
https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-show-laws-by-state-721345
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

There are many factors that contribute to the issue. The idea that Indiana doesn't contribute to the issue just isn't supported by facts.
Click to expand...


So you use "fake news" wording calling it "gun show loophole"? You want to control even loaning a buddy a gun with so called universal background checks. There are thousands and thousands of gun laws on the books, many of them blatantly unconstitutional, and yet they advocate for more.

The notion that Chicago policing was unconstitutional while asserting that constitutional rights in a neighboring state be curtailed is astounding. The factors that cause the problems are that of Chicago governance and Illinois governmental deference to them.

Chicago needs to solve their own problems...

MM
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,172
Messages
1,427,862
Members
61,086
Latest member
MrWebster
Back
Top