Diesel Guys- How much time does it take you or your mechanic to.....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Boat Guy, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. Boat Guy

    Boat Guy Well-Known Member

    How much time does it take you or your mechanic to do:

    1. Oil Change
    2. Impeller Change

    on your diesel boat...Bonus points if you have a 3116 and 400da!

    I understand that it's might be longer for the stbd motor as it's on the far side .

    Without detailing everything, I just received an invoice from a company that did the work 6 months ago. I honestly thought that they were embarrassed to charge me because of some of the mistakes they made that day. But then this weekend I got the invoice. I'm trying to get an idea time.
     
  2. Great lakes pirate

    Great lakes pirate Active Member

    563
    Jan 5, 2010
    Lake St. Clair
    2000 35 Tiara Open
    Cummins 6BTA's
    370
    Takes me about 3 hours to change both impellers and about 2 hours to change the oil. This includes warming up the engines and clean up. I believe your Cats take more oil than my Cummins but that shouldn't add much time.
     
  3. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    I am probably 2-1/2 hours to change oil in both engines and Generator using a reverso to empty and fill... Not counting warmup so add another 20 minutes if didn't comeback warm already
    Impellers suck...probably the same for all three 2-1/2 hours most time spent swearing and sweating on the starboard engine.. Gen is not much better
     
  4. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    864
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    Changing oil with Reverso is easy, but never goes as fast as I think it should. +1 to Blue's comments. As far as impellers go, I have that licked.....I bought the impeller tool. http://www.impellertool.com/

    I haven't used it on the boat yet, but on bench tests, it is super easy. I'll set a timeer next spring and let you know.

    Add to the list changing serpentine belts. Takes about 15 minutes per if you've done it before and the bolts have been freed once before!

    Jaybeaux
     
    JVM225 likes this.
  5. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    Did you buy the puller too or do you use a bolt?
     
  6. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    864
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    Bolt from Fastenal....less than $5
     
  7. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    864
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    In fact, removing the old impeller is now the rate limiting factor. That is if you don't count the multiple number of trips from the bilge to the helm to bump the engines to get the key pointing at 12 o'clock.
     
  8. Boat Guy

    Boat Guy Well-Known Member

    FYI - I bought the bolt for the impeller change too...I don't know how you could do it without it. It's super easy. (If you bring a socket wrench with you - The mechanic I hired used a straight wrench that could do about an 6th (?) turn at a time...Further, didn't have the bolt so I let him borrow mine.

    For reference, I did the inboard side in about an hour. But, it was my first time doing it. Getting it out was super easy. Getting the new one in and lined up was where the time was. Without a doubt I could do it faster now. But, even though I used two zip ties to compress the blades, it was still hard to get it to spin so the keyway was lined up...I used glycerine grease..
     
    Jaybeaux likes this.
  9. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    My guess would be between 6 & 8 hours labor.
    My 3126’s should be a lot like your 3116’s time wise.
    The oil changes for both my motors and the generator take me about 1 1/2 - 2 hours in total.
    I’ve done them 3 times now so I’ve got a bit of a system.
    That’s starting with warmed up motors (usually do it right after last run of season to pumpout Dock), draining motors and genny with Reverso, then changing 3 filters and pouring individual gallons of oil back in to the motors by hand. I use the reverso for filling the generator because it’s nuts to try to do it by hand.
    I usually have an assistant opening the oil jugs and handing them down to me. That saves time.
    I’ve only done the impellers once and it was over a winter.
    Since it was so cold I did it in a couple of visits so don’t have a reliable start to finish time.
    Fighting with the starboard exhaust to get it off was the single most time consuming part of the job though. Even using a heat gun it was a knuckle buster on a cold day.
    Factor in time to remove and reinstall the senders that block the impellers from coming out too.
    I took advantage of the Stbd exhaust hose being off and did the generator impeller at the same time.
     
  10. The Bill Collector

    The Bill Collector Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tacoma, WA
    1998 450 Sundancer, Achilles dinghy
    3126 Cat's
    impellers under 1.5 hours for both...(bolt method) oil & filters are a little tougher for me to guess because I'm also doing fuel filters and the gen. oil and fuel. I usually plan on 5-6 hours for this. Now somebody that is doing this for a living and not me doing it once a year probably could be a little faster.
     
    Jaybeaux likes this.
  11. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    Okay you win.... I left out the 4 beers in my time :)
     
    RBB and marty51 like this.
  12. FastMarkA

    FastMarkA Active Member

    300
    Jul 12, 2010
    Chicago
    2015 Sunseeker Portofino 40
    Volvo Penta D6-330
    I was recently charged 8.5 hours of labor to do oil and filter changes on both motors and generator, fuel filter changes on both motors, air filter changes on both motors, and crankcase filter changes on both motors. Volvo Penta D6s and an Onan Generator.
     
  13. Irie308

    Irie308 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 28, 2013
    CT
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge, GHS Hydraulic Lift
    Dual Raymarine E120W
    AB Mares 10 VSX with 30 hp Tohatsu
    Cummins 450C 8.3 L Turbocharged
    Do you have a link for the type of bolt used?
     
  14. Joint Custody

    Joint Custody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    375
    Sep 20, 2017
    Lake Powell Utah
    2001 460 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins 6CTA8
    Three of those crown and water where to just deal with the starboard impeller... in all my years of working on cars and boats. That has to be the most frustrating thing I have ever dealt with.

    one season I was working on the boat in November doing the services by myself . when I say no one was on the dock I mean no one.
    I got stuck between the starboard moter and the side of the boat ... really stuck. My cell phone was about six inches out of reach. I was stuck for about 2hrs and the more I panic the more stuck I was. luckily the dock master is a good drinking friend and he showed up for a drink around 6pm. He had to pull me out.

    We had a good laugh about it however if he didn’t who knows how long I would of been stuck.

    Always file a float plan. Lol
     
    Little Ducky and Blueone like this.
  15. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    For two engines and gen, 5.25 hours for oil change, two lube oil filters per main (4 total), 1 secondary fuel per main (2 total), 1 Racor for each main (2 total), 2 pencil zincs per main (4 total
    It took 5.25 for same engines and gen. We also have a reverso change system. We also had the racors re-filtered and the bowls flushed. It sounds good, but there was an additional 3.5 hours travel time.
    H
     
  16. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    Damn this boating is expensive....and this is just PM
     
  17. ZZ13

    ZZ13 Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2009
    Lady's Island, SC
    2001 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450 Diamond
    I spend one day hanging out on the boat and do all the oil/filter changes, racor/secondary fuel filters and coolant filters for both engines and the generator. I take breaks, go get lunch, watch some tv along the way.

    I have SMX impellers and don't change them but every 500-600 hours. Starboard takes about 15 minutes. Port takes about 30 minutes. Generator pump is side mounted so easy access. It's impeller change is 15 minutes as well.
     
  18. sbw1

    sbw1 Well-Known Member

    Oct 10, 2006
    West Michigan
    This is listed in my signature
    This is listed in my signature
    IMG_4230.JPG I can not remember when an invoice showed up 6 months after a service was rendered that appeared to be about right. Almost always they seem to be too high for the amount of work performed. Realize this does not answer the question. Just sayin'....
     
  19. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    864
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    No I don't. I just took an old impeller to my local Fastenal place and had them match it up.
     
    Irie308 likes this.
  20. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Change oil and oil filters and engine mounted fuel filters for 3 Caterpillars and one Westerbeke Generator.......if everyone leaves me alone .....2.5 hours. My Racors are on a different schedule.

    I handle the port impeller (10 minutes) but I get the marina to do the stbd one....if you have Cat engines in a Sundancer, you understand.
     
    Jus the two of us likes this.

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