Face Shields..

[MonacoMike]

My CSR friends, of course! I truly respect your views and perspective. It helps me form mine, which still may differ, but I will be clear on why. (El Capitan excluded from that statement. I am sure his feelings will be hurt)

I have always believed but the best comes out of the forge of robust discussion. There are some very smart people here on CSR. I like people that challenge me and make me reassess if my views are true. It is a part of how I find the truth...

 

[Blueone]

I trust a select group of very intellectual friends

I have a best friend from high school (40yr friend) insanely smart, very successful business man, die hard democrat, Trump hater to the extreme. I just got off the phone with him today driving up to the boat and I was in tears from laughing... we are such polar opposites politically but still can make each other laugh... I just can’t accept his position philosophically to save my life or his shutdown and hide mentality for this virus.... he loses his shit when I go to the island.... to the point I don’t tell him anymore.
I see this here on the forum all the time....you will not change some else’s mind. I think even debating is pointless. So no ... I can’t trust some of my friends... I can listen to them but they won’t change my mind

 

[Creekwood]

I have a best friend from high school (40yr friend) insanely smart, very successful business man, die hard democrat, Trump hater to the extreme. I just got off the phone with him today driving up to the boat and I was in tears from laughing... we are such polar opposites politically but still can make each other laugh... I just can’t accept his position philosophically to save my life or his shutdown and hide mentality for this virus.... he loses his shit when I go to the island.... to the point I don’t tell him anymore.
I see this here on the forum all the time....you will not change some else’s mind. I think even debating is pointless. So no ... I can’t trust some of my friends... I can listen to them but they won’t change my mind

Could you imagine being an elected representative in Washington!

 

[Great Lakes]

I can listen to them but they won’t change my mind

I'm the same. Some really take it personally too but that's just life I guess.

Could you imagine being an elected representative in Washington!

Haha we have enough of that already

 

[spikedaddy99]

I have a best friend from high school (40yr friend) insanely smart, very successful business man, die hard democrat, Trump hater to the extreme. I just got off the phone with him today driving up to the boat and I was in tears from laughing... we are such polar opposites politically but still can make each other laugh... I just can’t accept his position philosophically to save my life or his shutdown and hide mentality for this virus.... he loses his shit when I go to the island.... to the point I don’t tell him anymore.
I see this here on the forum all the time....you will not change some else’s mind. I think even debating is pointless. So no ... I can’t trust some of my friends... I can listen to them but they won’t change my mind

I have that same friend. We are a week apart in age and our Mom's were friends, so I've literally known him my whole life. He's been inside watching CNN and MSNBC through all of this since he is lucky enough to have a gov't job and can work from a computer. We talked last week, and he asked about coming to my boat for a weekend. He says he has quarantined for the last 2 weeks to be safe. I told him I've been at work throughout all of this and not quarantined. So he asked me to quarantine for 2 weeks so he can come visit. I said dude, I can't fix teeth from a computer and still earn a living. He was floored. Of course, I offered to let him fill up the fuel tanks when he visits

 

[JimT]

My CSR friends, of course! I truly respect your views and perspective. It helps me form mine, which still may differ, but I will be clear on why. (El Capitan excluded from that statement. I am sure his feelings will be hurt)

Is El Capitan still around? Oh yeah, I ignored him! Best thing I ever did.

 

[El Capitan]

If you read what I posted you'd understand. Medical care is not unlimited. When you make everyone eligible for medical care, like universal government systems do, it has to be rationed -- that is an economic fact. Since it is no longer rationed by price, it is rationed by wait times. If you can't get it now, you either pay more for it (bid the price up) or you need to wait. That is simple supply/demand economics.

I regretfully and respectfully know this is not the case. My over 30 years in healthcare globally working w providers, payers, health ministries, and regional health authorities informs me of what the definition of the word “rationing” means to us in the varying care delivery models across countries.

There is no connection between wait times and “rationing” access, eligibility, or in determining approved care plans and remedies. It just is not part of the process.

The only reason wait times have come to exist is a result of a population far greater than healthcare resources are available at the time of encounter.

It is not intentionally designed to dole out care in a predefined portion ie rationing.

This is not to say that if granny needs a quadruple bypass at age 90, that she won’t be denied because she just might in a government single payer model.

8 weeks ago my mom had a TAVR procedure in the middle of COVID hysteria, it was medically necessary and she’s 85 years old.
Medicare is paying for it.

That would be hard to accomplish in the UK or any government run single payer healthcare system.

 

[Golfman25]

The only reason wait times have come to exist is a result of a population far greater than healthcare resources are available at the time of encounter.

Dude, that's call rationing.

 

[Creekwood]

Anyone get the feeling there is something wrong with the tests?

There is for sure something strange with this virus. Maybe there are already strains of it or maybe its closely related to some other one that many people have been exposed to before and for those people, the immune system just fights it off and you don't even know it. Like many viruses. But not always.

 

[Great Lakes]

The governor and all his people wear masks... the virus is gonna do its thing and nothing will stop it
View attachment 89770

Second test was negative..

If this was a regular person and not a Governor... instead of a 2nd test, he would have:
-been told to quarantine for 10-14 days
-turned over all contacts from past week
-all of THOSE contacts would quarantined and be told to get tested
-all of their contacts notified
The business he worked for would have effectively been shut down, harming co-workers. His kids' schools and daycares and sports likely shut down, harming children and teachers...on and on

STOP TESTING HEALTHY PEOPLE
If you're sick, stay home.
If you get really sick, go to hospital.
If you're vulnerable, isolate yourself.
If you're healthy, live your damn life!!!

 

[alnav]

Second test was negative..

If this was a regular person and not a Governor... instead of a 2nd test, he would have:
-been told to quarantine for 10-14 days
-turned over all contacts from past week
-all of THOSE contacts would quarantined and be told to get tested
-all of their contacts notified
The business he worked for would have effectively been shut down, harming co-workers. His kids' schools and daycares and sports likely shut down, harming children and teachers...on and on

STOP TESTING HEALTHY PEOPLE
If you're sick, stay home.
If you get really sick, go to hospital.
If you're vulnerable, isolate yourself.
If you're healthy, live your damn life!!!

The only reason DeWine was tested was because he was about to meet with the President. Not sure it makes sense to generalize based on a pretty unique situation.
The reason there is a strategy to conduct large numbers of tests is to identify as many asymptomatic individuals as possible. Finding the sick ones has been and still is pretty easy since they present for symptoms. It's now clear that there are lots of people who get infected, don't know it unless tested, and have the potential to infect lots of others. If everybody who contracted covid got sick, the problem would be much simpler and the strategy you describe would probably be in force.

 

[alnav]

Medicare is paying for it.
That would be hard to accomplish in the UK or any government run single payer healthcare system.

Isn't Medicare (except for Medigap supplemental insurance) a government run single payer healthcare system?

 

[Golfman25]

The only reason DeWine was tested was because he was about to meet with the President. Not sure it makes sense to generalize based on a pretty unique situation.
The reason there is a strategy to conduct large numbers of tests is to identify as many asymptomatic individuals as possible. Finding the sick ones has been and still is pretty easy since they present for symptoms. It's now clear that there are lots of people who get infected, don't know it unless tested, and have the potential to infect lots of others. If everybody who contracted covid got sick, the problem would be much simpler and the strategy you describe would probably be in force.

The problem is the jury is still out on the potential of infection. From the things I have read and seen, asymptomatic carriers might not be all that infections. That is not to say they don't infect people. The question is how many and under what conditions.

 

[Creekwood]

This is not to say that if granny needs a quadruple bypass at age 90, that she won’t be denied because she just might in a government single payer model.

8 weeks ago my mom had a TAVR procedure in the middle of COVID hysteria, it was medically necessary and she’s 85 years old.
Medicare is paying for it.

That would be hard to accomplish in the UK or any government run single payer healthcare system.

Not that El Capitan will see this, but in Canada his mother would have had the TAVR procedure without question and without cost. So his "disinformation" cannot be called out to him, but the rest of you will see my response. Don't take anything you read "from a guy on the internet" as fact, (I guess including my post). Fact check it yourself.

Like many upper 50's year olds, I have had far too much experience with family in the Canadian health care system. In 100% of the the medical decisions for "grannys and grampies" in my circle, including my own father, the only decisions WE (not the doctors) had to make was the risk of major surgery at that age. My 94 year old grandmother died of a bad ulcer bleed that the doctors tried for a week to stop with scope surgery and other methods. They offered to do major surgery to R&R the ulcerated area and said she would have a 10% chance of survival given how bad it was. We said no. It was our decision. There was ZERO push and zero denial. They would have wheeled her out of her room within the hour if we said to do it. Every single person I know has had similar situations. I am not aware of a single person in Canada "denied" health care because of age. Its simply not fact.

Transplant lists are prioritized based on organ supply and severity of potential recipients urgency, but that has nothing to do with single payer. That has to do we a true scarce resource - organs for transplant (sign your organ donor card!).

 

[alnav]

The problem is the jury is still out on the potential of infection. From the things I have read and seen, asymptomatic carriers might not be all that infections. That is not to say they don't infect people. The question is how many and under what conditions.

It looks like the jury is starting to come in based on a brand new study:
Coronavirus: Asymptomatic cases 'carry same amount of virus'
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53665008
I agree it's not yet 100% definitive but it seems to me the public health authorities would be prudent to assume these cases are spreading until it's proved otherwise. It would be a great thing if they could be more or less ignored.

 

[Golfman25]

It looks like the jury is starting to come in based on a brand new study:
Coronavirus: Asymptomatic cases 'carry same amount of virus'
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53665008
I agree it's not yet 100% definitive but it seems to me the public health authorities would be prudent to assume these cases are spreading until it's proved otherwise. It would be a great thing if they could be more or less ignored.

But for this line, ok.
"The researchers acknowledge their study could not "determine the role" that the presence of the virus in asymptomatic patients played in transmission, however."

 

[alnav]

But for this line, ok.
"The researchers acknowledge their study could not "determine the role" that the presence of the virus in asymptomatic patients played in transmission, however."

Agree, that's what I meant by not 100% definitive. The assumption is that, if the asymptomatic are carrying just as much virus as the symptomatic, they are probably spreading it. They likely wouldn't be coughing and hacking it out so maybe not so much. Shouting and singing might be a problem. I'm sure there is more to follow.

 

[BEH]

Not that El Capitan will see this, but in Canada his mother would have had the TAVR procedure without question and without cost. So his "disinformation" cannot be called out to him, but the rest of you will see my response. Don't take anything you read "from a guy on the internet" as fact, (I guess including my post). Fact check it yourself.

Like many upper 50's year olds, I have had far too much experience with family in the Canadian health care system. In 100% of the the medical decisions for "grannys and grampies" in my circle, including my own father, the only decisions WE (not the doctors) had to make was the risk of major surgery at that age. My 94 year old grandmother died of a bad ulcer bleed that the doctors tried for a week to stop with scope surgery and other methods. They offered to do major surgery to R&R the ulcerated area and said she would have a 10% chance of survival given how bad it was. We said no. It was our decision. There was ZERO push and zero denial. They would have wheeled her out of her room within the hour if we said to do it. Every single person I know has had similar situations. I am not aware of a single person in Canada "denied" health care because of age. Its simply not fact.

Transplant lists are prioritized based on organ supply and severity of potential recipients urgency, but that has nothing to do with single payer. That has to do we a true scarce resource - organs for transplant (sign your organ donor card!).

I am 75 years old, have had a heart attack, Cardio Myopathy, had a broken arm, basil cell cancer, cataracts, two MRI’s, amongst other things, my father had dementia and cancer, and my grandparents have been through our medical system and never had a problem, ever.
If it is elective surgery or knee replacements there may be a waiting time, but if the need is there, so is our medical system.
My wife had to wait to have her first knee replacement, but when the other knee started to fail and hinder her physical therapy, then she had it replaced immediately.
Other then upgrading my new eye lenses, which was my choice, all this at absolutely no cost.
I hear horror stories from our American friends, we have a winter house in Florida, about your medical system, cost of insurance etc.
We may have higher taxes, but we have a larger country in area and one tenth the population but every Canadian gets medical, no matter where they live, in the city or the boonies.

 

[MonacoMike]

To our Canadian friends, most likely what is happening is that we are reading stories from Europe, whose healthcare systems are crumbling and putting all the systems in one basket.

 

[El Capitan]

I am 75 years old, have had a heart attack, Cardio Myopathy, had a broken arm, basil cell cancer, cataracts, two MRI’s, amongst other things, my father had dementia and cancer, and my grandparents have been through our medical system and never had a problem, ever.
If it is elective surgery or knee replacements there may be a waiting time, but if the need is there, so is our medical system.
My wife had to wait to have her first knee replacement, but when the other knee started to fail and hinder her physical therapy, then she had it replaced immediately.
Other then upgrading my new eye lenses, which was my choice, all this at absolutely no cost.
I hear horror stories from our American friends, we have a winter house in Florida, about your medical system, cost of insurance etc.
We may have higher taxes, but we have a larger country in area and one tenth the population but every Canadian gets medical, no matter where they live, in the city or the boonies.

Actually that’s not true. Both Canada and the US have 3.8 million square miles.

Healthcare is not free in Canada. In fact, prescriptions, dental are not free. In this article 50,000 Canadians come to the US for healthcare.
Comparing a country’s healthcare system w population the size of Texas to 350M in the US is meaningless.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.us...singly-come-to-us-for-health-care?context=amp