Failed Sea Trial

Discussion in 'Newbie Lounge - NEW' started by TexasBryan, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. TexasBryan

    TexasBryan New Member

    8
    Oct 12, 2017
    Boatless
    Boatless
    While conducting a sea trail the engine intercooler inlet hose split open, As a result the survey indicated an unsatisfactory sea trial. With this noted on the survey, I will not be able to secure financing or insurance.

    Assuming that the seller repairs the hose, does the seller credit the buyer for the cost of a second survey?

    Other than "bad hose" are there other common causes of this type of failure?
     
  2. CaptRonn

    CaptRonn Member SILVER Sponsor

    109
    May 25, 2016
    Houston
    Sea Ray 400EC
    Mercruiser
    Without knowing any specifics that is hard to say.
     
  3. KevinC

    KevinC Member

    446
    Feb 25, 2011
    Long Island, NY
    2004 340 Sundancer
    1988 Proline Center Console - 90hp Mariner/Mercury
    1969 Boston Whaler
    Twin 8.1 V-drives
    If you still want to consider the boat I would make it evident to seller that the cost of the re-survey would reduce your offer price. Additionally any other deficiencies would still need to be negotiated. The problem is that if it fails the survey again you will be out the additional fees from the surveyor.

    Not knowing what was accomplished during the initial inspection you may wish to consult with the surveyor to see if there would be a reduced fee to just complete the sea trial portion after the repair is complete.

    When I purchased my 340 the finance company and insurance only requested that certain deficiencies noted on the survey be completed and all we needed to do was provide work orders that those items were completed. Since the finance was arranged for by the dealer (MM) who coordinated the repairs it was simple for me. Just another piece of paperwork that was required at closing that I gave to the insurance company.

    -Kevin
     
  4. cdog

    cdog Member

    31
    Aug 28, 2013
    lake michigan
    2005 353 fastech, 94 440 Express Bridge, zodiac yl340
    496HO's, cummins 6BTA's, Yamaha F40
    If the hull surveyor completed the survey and didn't just stop when the hose let go, then he should be able to provide an addendum upon satisfactory repair. Maybe you will need to get the engine surveyor out there again? btw, a great argument to replace all the hoses $$$ off the sale...
     
  5. NotHerDecision

    NotHerDecision Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

    775
    Jun 28, 2016
    Houston, Texas
    2001 Sea Ray 460 Sundancer
    2014 Seadoo 155 LTD
    2105 Seadoo 130 SE
    2013 Mercury Dinghy
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3L
    I don't think you need another full survey. The Surveyor is going to want to be paid to complete the seatrial portion of his work, so I would assume 3 hours labor but nothing like an entirely new survey. The owner should repair the hose and you can schedule another date to perform a seatrial. I don't believe survey's are a pass/fail event but rather an inspection report that notes deficiencies. If your surveyor is worth his .02 then he will perform the seatrial at a later date for a nominal fee and amend his report to include that performance data.

    As far as other causes for the split hose...

    Cummins 6CTA's have aftercoolers that must be serviced on an annual or minimum bi-annual bases. If the aftercoolers (What I think you are calling intercoolers) are severely plugged then the flow of the raw water from the pumps is restricted and causes the hose(weakest point) to bulge excessively until it fails. I have personally observed this on 6CTA engines. Tony Athens at Seaboard Marine is the expert on these engines. Please make sure you take time to read everything you can on www.sbmar.com. Is is also the owner of boatdiesel.com which is a forum where diesels are the main topic so this is also helpful.

    If I were purchasing a boat with 6CTA's, I would verify these things without a doubt.

    1. Can the engines reach WOT of 2650RPM while keeping temps below 170*
    2. Have the aftercoolers been disassembled and serviced per Toney Athen's instructions on sbmar.com?
    3. Can the owner provide proof of valve adjustments? If not, it needs to be completed
    4. Are the Sherwood 1730C Seawater pumps healthy? Tony sells an upgraded SMX pump on his site.
    5. Is there any white or black smoke at idle and coming up on plane?
    6. Are the echaust elbows functioning correctly without leaks and minimal rust.

    Hopefully this is somewhat helpful for you, call or email me anytime with questions. I am open to meeting yo at the boat to take a look. I will be down there all weekend. Don't get discouraged, you will love it once this is all past.

    Josh
     
  6. The Bill Collector

    The Bill Collector Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tacoma, WA
    450 Sundancer
    3126 Cat's
    When we bought our bought we had an agreed upon price if everything was in proper order. The diesel survey came back with hoses, gen heat exchanger, etc. The seller paid ($3k) for all issues & we kept the agreed upon price.
     
  7. northern

    northern Active Member

    Jan 17, 2007
    West coast Vancouver to Alaska
    380 Aft Cabin 1989 GPS and Charts by Nobeltec
    Twin 454 strait shaft
    Every 5 year we need an insurance survey. The items that need fixing are noted and the insurance company wants to know when they will be done. Assume it works the same when you purchase.
     
  8. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60
    Not a complete answer, because this is an isolated item - no idea about the rest of the survey.

    First question I would have is were you able to complete necessary review of the engine before the engine shut down?

    If not, then you are needing an additional sea trial to complete the evaluation.

    How it is listed in the survey document has impact. If it is called out specifically that this hose failed, then I think attaching the invoice for the repair would satisfy this item.

    If the survey just has the statement failed Sea Trial - I would go back to my surveyor and ask them to add in language specific to the issue. You are not asking for anything to be misrepresented, just clarified with more detailed explanation.

    My recent experience. On survey day I had the hull surveyor and the engine surveyor there on the same day.

    At the end of the day we had 2 significant issues and a list of what I considered minor issues.

    Engines were fine - so checked that off the list.

    The 2 significant issues were trim tabs and the smoothness of the steering (both were known issues with the boat model in general).

    Since our purchase agreement included language around our acceptance of the boat - I took the position that all issues had to resolved by the owner and that I would have to approve what the resolution was.

    Further I stated that after issue resolution there would be a second sea trial to verify correct operation.

    For the second sea trial I did not bring the surveyor in, was just my wife and I. I felt comfortable with knowing the details of the work performed and my own personal judgment on whether the operation was satisfactory.

    Two things here. First I believed that the previous owner did not know about the issues. Won't drag through the details of why I formed that perception - but I felt comfortable with that. The owner was very honest on all issues during the entire process. In fact after closing, we have new friends - that doesn't always happen.

    Second, the issues were something I felt comfortable evaluating. Had they been other types of issues I may have chosen to bring a professional in. If that had been the case, I would have passed those costs to the seller.

    Regarding cost of the sea trial, remember if you have a solid term sheet signed, then you are in control. You have the ability to walk or not. The buyer doesn't have the option of whether or not to sell you the boat at the agreed to price.

    You define the criteria whereby you will accept the boat. If that includes additional costs for the owner - then all the owner can do is say no - then you walk from the boat.

    This is the importance of the purchase agreement/term sheet. You are in control of whether you buy the boat or not.

    Is this a "hot market" boat - where the seller has people standing in line? If the owner does not work with you - will they wind up sitting on the boat for another 1-2 or more months? Questions you have to answer.

    The cost of the slip for another month or two to the owner is probably more than the cost of having the surveyor out again.

    You can specify to the Surveyor - this is what you need to evaluate. Price should reflect that.

    If you have done the correct paperwork during the process - you are in control.

    Just a couple of thoughts, turned in very long winded - sorry.

    Mark
     
  9. northern

    northern Active Member

    Jan 17, 2007
    West coast Vancouver to Alaska
    380 Aft Cabin 1989 GPS and Charts by Nobeltec
    Twin 454 strait shaft
    Based on the surveys I have had I do not think you will get a reduced rate for just a partial as you still have travel time and a report to write. I did have one surveyor offer to cut his rate in half before he got on the boat as he saw defects before he got on the boat. Once on the boat it was full rate. In the end the boat was not very good. He pointed out things I would have missed. The reason for the half price offer was general appearance of the boat. His idea was if you do not maintain the exterior the rest is probably not very good. He was correct.
     
  10. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60

    Disagree. Surveyor is a vendor/contractor. You are hiring them for a job. You define what you want them to do.

    Grab a different surveyor if you need to. But every Surveyor I have worked with - I define the scope of activities.

    If I don't like the their price - then I move on to the next one.

    Mark
     
  11. TexasBryan

    TexasBryan New Member

    8
    Oct 12, 2017
    Boatless
    Boatless
    It's $250 for the first repeat of the sea trial and an amended survey. $150 for each additional sea trial until it passes or I give up!
     
  12. NotHerDecision

    NotHerDecision Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

    775
    Jun 28, 2016
    Houston, Texas
    2001 Sea Ray 460 Sundancer
    2014 Seadoo 155 LTD
    2105 Seadoo 130 SE
    2013 Mercury Dinghy
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3L
    That’s fair. I figure it takes about 3-4 hours of his time so 250 seems good to me.

    Josh
     

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