Freshwater to Saltwater

jcjones

jcjones

New Member
Jul 11, 2008
43
Aurora, Colorado
Boat Info
1983 260EC Twin Drive
Engines
Twin 3.8 V6
I found a couple of similar threads but wanted to get some clarification from those in the know.... :)

Currently in Colorado and our boat sees around 30 to 40 hours a week in the water during the season - obviously always fresh water.

Moving to the Tampa Bay area in Florida where the boat will be in the water all the time since we'll be living on a salt water canal with access to the bay and gulf of Mexico.

Since the boat will be being used at least 3 to 4 times a week do I need to flush with fresh water every time we bring it back in? How would I go about flushing with fresh water when it's sitting in salt water? If I start the engines it will just suck more salt water up, right?

What else do I need to do not only to prepare the boat for salt water use (I know I need to get Zinc instead of Magnesium anodes), and what additional maintenance things need to be done and at what intervals?

I just went to the boat show here in Denver and was talking to a guy from the local Sea Ray dealer and he said I should sell the boat and buy another one that is Mercruiser powered. He said the OMC stringer drives won't survive in the salt water. Surely that's not the case.... I hope....

Thanks in advance for any advice, experiences, etc. that anybody can provide. :)
 
Welcome to Tampa Bay.
Once you're in a year-round boating clime, you'll never go back...

I'm going to guess that your engines are raw-water cooled... in that case- yes, flushing is a good idea. I don't know how you're going to do that without the boat being on a lift, though. Which brings me to suggest that you install a boat lift- the saltwater is extremely tough on outdrives- particularly older ones.

The increased maintenance costs for your outdrives, coupled with the cost of bottom painting (which you have to do if you're going to keep it in the water) will offset the cost of the lift over time.
 
Couple of things... No you don't need to flush... Yes it is better for the boat... Did you think about selling your current boat in Co, and buying a newer boat in FL? There are a lot good deals in Fl, and transporting your boat cross country could be an adventure... I have fresh water cooled engines and boat in salt water, and only flush when I winterize the boat... I would be more concerned that I have the best ablative bottom paint and zinc annodes..
 
You have almost 30 year old aluminum outdrives. The boat won't last much more then a season if you leave it sitting in salt water and do not flush. The boat needs to be stored on a trailer, on a lift or dry stacked in a marina and you very definitely do need to flush the engines after each use.
 
tobnpr: I love your 390 EC, would love to get one of those for longer cruises and extended stays on the boat. :) I don't think I would want to give up the "fun factor" of the 260 though so I would need to have a slip for both!

I have thought about selling her and getting another one once we get down there but what keeps coming back up is how much we love "Atlantis" and how much work we've put into her. She has some upgrades too, 140 gallon fuel capacity for one, and the 3.8's are warmed over and putting out around 230HP. I would probably repower before getting rid of her. Ideal would be a couple of FI 5.7's with B3's but that would be extraordinarily expensive... lol I have seriously thought about doing some transom reinforcement and upgrading to Alpha drives (one reverse rotation). How long can I expect the OMC Stringers to live in salt water?

We'll be putting new bottom paint on her before leaving Colorado (have a buddy with a shop and lifts that can hold the boat up while we paint the bottom). We'll be replacing the anodes with Zinc also as soon as I can find a source to get them - might have to wait for that until we get down there. Not a lot of zinc anodes available in Colorado... lol

A question I have about fresh water cooling: Doesn't that only cover the engine and you still have raw water circulating through the exhaust manifolds to cool them? My understanding is that the biggest problem with raw water cooling in salt water is rusting the manifolds and risers from the inside out. Converting to fresh water cooling would still leave that problem wouldn't it?

I'm certainly hoping that I won't ever have to winterize again once I get down there. I am going to get a bilge heater just in case (I've been through a frozen block before and that just sucks).

Another question I have is about documentation and registration. I keep hearing about "documented" boats down there - here in Colorado there are no titles for boats, only the trailer. The boat has registration numbers of course, but no title. What kind of issues am I going to have getting her registered and legal there?

She does tow very nicely on the trailer so I don't see any issues with towing from Colorado to Florida. I have a triple axle trailer with brakes on all 3 axles and it tracks great. Will have to upgrade my truck for the trip though but that's in the works anyway since the Expedition is getting a bit aged and I've wanted a "Super Duty" diesel Ford for a while anyway.

Thanks for the input - I really appreciate the info from everybody. :)
 
Is a lift not an option? I would consider it a must have with outdrives - especially your OMC's. The lift gives you the ability to keep the boat out of the water and will allow you a way to flush. It is much more convenient than storing it on a trailer since you just have to lower it into the water and go! If you decide to store the boat in the water you will want to check for corrosion often - you may be surprised at how quickly the anodes can go away. You can ask your future neighbors what their experiences have been and if they have ever measured for stray current.

You definitely need to flush after each use - letting salt water sit in the engine will only accelerate the wear on all parts. Flushing only at winterization time is asking for an increased maintenance schedule! You can flush with the boat in the water - there are kits (including DIY options) available so you do this. I'm not familiar with OMC's and how they work with regards to water pickup - but I'm sure someone will be able to assist. The goal is to run the engines long enough to ensure the thermostat has opened and fresh water has completely circulated through the engine and exhaust. You're moving to a boating wonderland - just protect that boat!
 
Zincs: go to www.boatzincs.com

Before you paint the bottom... I believe most people who live in FL, on a cannal, would recommend a lift... If you get a lift, get the as big a lift as you can afford, in case you do decide to get a bigger boat...
 
Some of the houses we're looking at already have a lift installed, however very few have a 10,000lb capacity which seems about the minimum for my boat. I believe the dry weight is around 7500lbs, then you add another 1100lbs for fuel if the tanks are all full, another 800lbs for fresh water if that tank is full, some more weight for the gray water tank if that has anything in it plus gear and I'll be close to maxing out even a 10k lift. The boat fully loaded for just a weekend on the lake here with the trailer weighs in at around 12k (providing the truck scale was reasonably accurate).

If the house we settle on doesn't have a big enough lift they are pretty pricey - might be more cost effective to do the outdrive conversion to alpha's after a few years. Looking at the classifieds in Tampa, while there are not many there are some similar vintage boats for sale in running condition with the same OMC Stringer type drives so hopefully there is some way to keep them maintained and in good operating condition while still having the convenience of having the boat ready to use at any time. It would seem pointless to live right on the water with a private dock and have to trailer the boat or dry store at a marina.

One thing I've seen are some references to is painting the outdrives with some type of protective paint and keeping them touched up if the paint gets scratched or scuffed. Also changing the zincs even annually would not be too much of an issue if they corrode that quickly.

If I can flush the cooling system with fresh water while the boat is floating then that's not such a big deal and would just become part of the "put away" maintenance along with cleaning and wiping down. It just didn't seem that would be possible with the drives in the water since the raw water pickup is still submerged even when fully lifted.

Again, I appreciate the input and advice, some encouraging and of course some discouraging but I do want to make sure I have a "realistic" picture. Rose colored glasses make you feel good but not the best approach... ;)
 
It really doesn't matter who makes the drive assembly or what its painted with, you will have a maintenance/repair nightmare on your hands if you attempt to keep an I/O in salt water instead of on a lift or some other means of keeping the drives out of the water.

Keeping a boat in the water on the Gulf coast means an inboard or v-drive.
 
JC, There is no easy answer that involves taking your beloved boat with you... The new Sea Rays are lighter... My old 250 was was less the 5,000 lbs... When you live on the water, you may tend to sleep on the boat less often... I think, if I were living on the water in Tamp Bay, I may want to start with a late model Sundeck on a lift to explore the area... You may not want to be fixing up a house and boat at the same time... There are several Tampa guys on this site that may have more insight....
 
Listen to Frank and thank him later or wish you listened. I have FWC (read: closed cooling) on my boat and I only leave it in the water while we're on it. Maximum two weeks at a time. Otherwise she's pampered on the trailer and the OD is new.

The previous owner left it in "Fresh water" all the time and this is what the OD looked like when I bought it.
00260DABIIIO-D11-15-071.jpg

00260DABIIIO-D11-15-07.jpg


Don't just "hope" that everything will be OK, the reason you're seeking advice is you want to protect your boat. Listen to Frank and keep her in a dry stack marina or trailer her.
 
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JC;

I wouldn't bother with the expense of a FWC conversion given the age of the blocks. They'll hold up fine as long as you flush 'em.

There's only one engine I'm aware of (a 6.0 Crusader I own) that extends FWC to the risers. So it's really just the manifolds that are "extra" on a RWC boat. You'll need to change your manifolds and risers every 5 years or so in our environment. Much more than that and you're inviting a hydrolock and a new engine.

I believe you're looking at around 7500 as a ballpark for a 10K lift, depending on depth at the dock and makeup of the bottom (mine's solid limerock, so holes need to be drilled, not jetted). Feel free to PM me if you'd like some names to get quotes.
 
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J.C., I am from the Charleston area. I keep my girlfriend on the trailer under a cover storage area as well. It is a HUGE difference in comparison to my buddy who has a 04 280 Sundancer. He has a diver changing his zincs every 2-3 months and is always out there wiping the salt water from his isinglass, chrome, windows and is waxing bi-monthly (which he says he loves). He does have a trailer for this boat, but he says he doesn't mind the extra costs associated with keeping her in the water as it is very convenient for him.
I am very lucky as my put in, storage and gas station are all available to me with out even getting on a road.
So, I guess maybe you could look at the lift vs. storage vs. in the water all the time by looking at the money factor. I save money in fuel costs as I don't pay in water prices unless I go through o whole tank during the day. Wear and tear on the boat is less as she will be out of the water. I do have to keep up on the trailer a little bit more, but it's not so bad.
As tdappleman was saying, the flushing kit is an option and I live by 2 words....SALT AWAY. Salt Away is a non-toxic biodegradable salt remover product. I use it on my hull, windows, chrome, and flush the engine after each pull out.
I am thinkinng if you have to be in the water, go for the flushing kit, get a gallonm of salt away and flush.
I know this didn't really answer the questions you had there, but that salt away has been an excellent protector for me. I went to the dealer to get the impeller changed at 270 hours and we looked at the thermostat just for kicks and my mechanic asked me if I was using the salt away. So, there is that.

Side note, moved here from Yale and Havannah at Parker ave., Denver address though, in 2001. Yeah, I will work at McDonalds if I have to so that I could still live here. Year round boating is amazing!! You"ll never go back my friend!!
 
We'll add a lift to the list of requirements and if we can't find a house with one I guess we'll have to install one. One of the things I'm really looking forward to is being able to just jump in the boat and go (lowering from a lift is a lot more convenient then trailering to a close by ramp). I looked at that "Salt Away" product and I'll certainly use that. I've already built an attachment to flush both drives/motors at the same time so with 2 of the "mixing units" I can just flush it all at once.

We've found a few places with 16k lifts and 50' or more dock. Since a larger boat in addition to Atlantis is on the radar it seems that more dock and a larger lift is a good idea. I would imagine the larger boat would be at least a 39' Express Cruiser so hopefully it would have diesel inboards and can just live in the water with semi annual below water maintenance. That's just a guess as Atlantis is the biggest boat I've ever owned to date.

Given the marina fuel prices that I just looked up (up to $4/gal currently), looking into a home dock fuelling solution seems like a good option providing the EPA / City / County won't kick my a** for doing it.

tobnpr: With flushing using Salt Away, do you still think I'll have to change the manifolds and risers that often (every 5 years)? My boat is 27 years old this year and it's still running the original manifolds and risers and they're actually still in great shape.

medic3538: We live just a tad SE of there (Buckley and Quincy) so I know exactly where you're talking about. I'm of the same mindset as you - we picked the place we want to live long before even starting a job search. Call me crazy, but my life outside of work, including boating is 10x as important as my life at work. I'm very much a "Work to live" kind of guy rather then a "Live to work" kind of guy. We're focusing on the Tampa Bay (St. Petersburg) area, but also looking towards Sarasota and Fort Myers too. Tampa is as far north as we're really interested in but don't want to go as far south as the Keys either.

Thanks all for the advice!
 
I think that if you can flush the engines, and use a lift. . .you are going to be in good shape.

When I got my Sea Ray, I went lift shopping. What I found is that the lift itself was only about 1/3 the total installed cost, once you added in costs of wiring, piles, and environmental permitting horsecrap.

But hey. . compared to the cost of the house. . .chump change, right? I think you will love having the convienience of a boat on a lift!
 
JC,

The five years is leaning towards the conservative side. Problem is, there's no way to tell what's going on inside them. You can pull them and do visual inspections, but even with a scope there are very small passages- with very thin walls- that cannot be seen.

I had one fail -rust through- while the boat was at the dock. Fortunately when I turned the key the resulting hydrolock didn't damage the bottom end of the motor- but I still needed to slap on new heads. It's not a very difficult job (IF you have access!), and at $600-$800 per engine I looked at it as planned maintenance. You can go longer, and the Saltaway will help (good stuff)- but as you pass five years in our very warm, corrosive waters it becomes a bit of a roll of the dice. My $02.
 
Well then, given the age of my manifolds and risers it sounds like I'm about 22 years overdue on replacement. Now, finding a good source for them - any suggestions. Searching online I'm finding high availability for 5.7 OMC manifolds but not 3.8 OMC manifolds.
 
Don't be afraid of the salt. It can be managed easily as long as you're on top of things.
There is a few things that come to mind...
Engine temperature; with raw water cooling in the salt you'll want to stay down at about 140 degrees. Any higher and salt will build up in the corners of the engine castings. With a closed cooling kit installed you can run your engine at a higher temp... gasoline burning engines are more efficient at the higher temp. Merc's rwc engines are 140 t-stat and the fwc are about 165.
Not that you'll be needing a heater down there but if you have a closed cooling system you can install a hydronic heater.
The raw water pump; I much prefer the seperate belt driven pump like the bravo system uses over the alpha style pump in the drive. With the belt driven pump you can change an impeller with the boat still in the water and if you use a 'through-hull' pickup you can easily install a filter system too... all good things to have.
Keep your anodes in good shape. A lot of systems have zincs in the heat exchanger and risers too that tend to get forgotten. Electrolosis is your enemy.
If you research the closed cooling systems available both aftermarket and factory you'll see both types; one that has coolant in the engine only and another that has it in the manifolds too (which has a block-off plate between the riser and manifold). Choose the 'manifolds in' kit if you can then you'll never have to change them. Note some manifolds don't have the fittings cast in to them for this but I'd change them when (or if) you put the cooling system on.
That leaves just the risers... boats here in the Pacific ocean that sit in the water all year round need risers every 5 +/- years. I'm sure it's similar there.
Flushing; with closed cooling it isn't as important to flush it out. Do it anyways to get the residual out of there and give yourself a warm fuzzy feeling. Without the closed cooling you should flush it every time it comes out. Salt corrodes the cast iron quickly. You can tell with a simple test... flush it right when the boat comes out and there's clear water exiting... wait a day or two and flush... you'll have rusty water come out of your engine for a while.
Hope this helps.
Cheers :thumbsup:
 
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Thanks for the links :)

Problem is that neither of those sites have the right manifolds. :(

Osco has 4cyl, inline 6, and V8 manifolds, none for a V6.

Barr has two types of V6 manifolds but neither are the right ones.

Basiclly if you look at this one:
http://www.oscomotors.com/catalog/catalog34.asp

That's exactly what they look like, but short 1 port on each side for the V6. I have yet to find any anywhere online. I also have yet to see another boat anywhere with the same engine / drive configuration I have (2x 3.8l V6 and OMC 400 Stern Drive) in a single or a twin engine setup.

Maybe I should just upgrade my lower units to 800 series and replace both engines with 5.7's - at least then I could find parts.
 
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