How To Replace and Improve the Sea Ray Systems Monitor

[tdschafer]

The RIM100 is looking for the presence/absence of voltage from 9-240 AC or DC, so I would think you could easily replace the old LED pad. The easiest way to set this up and monitor it would be to use a Maretron DSM410 display. It’s NEMA2000 only.

You can get a NEMA0183 to NEMA2000 gateways, and that might get you some info on your MFD, but there can be limitations.

Certainly that system can be converted!
Those lamps in the "Boat outline" monitor are triggered by something coming on or going off. The channels in the Maretron RIM100 are triggered on or off the same way. You will have to install a NMEA2000 backbone and a Maretron display to view. The NMEA0183 can't be adapted to work with the Maretron equipment.

Thanks guys. I think that I'm going to try & tackle this project this spring. I probably should've been researching & purchasing parts over the winter. As I understand it, my outline monitor has a "black box" that receives the info then attaches to the "boat" display in the dash. Will I be able to utilize any of this wiring or do I start fresh feeding info into the Maetron? I may be sending you fellas some PM's along the way if that's ok.

 

[tdschafer]

The pic is what sits were my old LED sys monitor use to sit. If you trace the ribbon cable back to it's origin there should be a terminal block that has all of the signals on it. Pretty much what @dtfeld posted, but in a terminal block form factor.

View attachment 101269 Sorry, will fix rotation on PC.

Awesome! That's exactly what I'm looking for! Mine has "Tranny Temp" instead of "Water in Fuel" but, if the feeds are at the control box I should be good.

 

[Skybolt]

Awesome! That's exactly what I'm looking for! Mine has "Tranny Temp" instead of "Water in Fuel" but, if the feeds are at the control box I should be good.

I also have tranny temp thats on a different screen. The engine alarms on that view are being triggered by an engine ecu of sorts. But the idea is still the same. Also with the DSM you can configure N2K alarms to trigger off of any of the RIM's monitored values. You can also add an N2K alarm module for better audible alarms. So engine high temp, low oil pressure and tranny temp can trigger an audible alarm. Pretty nice setup and gives so much expandability.

 

[ttmott]

A couple of notes on Alerts generated by a Maretron NMEA 2000 system.

• Alerts can be set as an Alarm or as a Warning. Alarms require immediate user intervention and shown in red on the Maretron displays and Warnings are for information and appear in yellow. All of my Alerts are set up as Alarms.
• Alerts can be set up for any device or sensor on the network that the Maretron display recognizes but are monitored and managed by the Maretron display they are set up on (not the end device like a RIM100).
• Alerts are established and programmed in the Maretron display (DSM410) and also monitored by that display they are set up in. Consequently, for a Alarm or Warning to display or annunciate on the system the display that the alert is programmed must be active.
• Alerts that become active (via the display they are set up in) will be transmitted across the NMEA 2000 network and will annunciate on all active display or audible devices provided the devices recognize the appropriate PGN (all Maretron devices will acknowledge and/or annunciate).
• Alerts can be acknowledged/responded to on any Maretron display active on the system. So, even though an Alert is programmed and monitored from a display, an Alarm or Warning that becomes active can be acknowledged and silenced by the user from any Maretron display. As an example I have several Maretron displays. The display in the Solon mounted on the power panel is where all of the Alerts are programmed and monitored; this display is powered on the engine room component of my NMEA 2000 backbone and always powered up. The Helm display will show and annunciate all alerts as well as I can acknowledge and silence the Alert from the helm display.
• The screen in the Maretron device(s) that you have set up to view the device/channel (like a bilge pump on the RIM100) can be set up to change color when the device/channel changes state; this is not an Alert but rather how you configure the display of something (akin to the lamp illuminating on the bilge pump switch when the pump comes on). Conversely, an Alert provides notification on all screens and devices across the network and flashing that something has triggered an alert.

As a note relating to the discussion on leaving the NMEA 2000 power on; this is why my NMEA 2000 network is always powered on. It is important to me to always know when a Systems Monitor parameter becomes active.
Tom

 

[tdschafer]

I also have tranny temp thats on a different screen. The engine alarms on that view are being triggered by an engine ecu of sorts. But the idea is still the same. Also with the DSM you can configure N2K alarms to trigger off of any of the RIM's monitored values. You can also add an N2K alarm module for better audible alarms. So engine high temp, low oil pressure and tranny temp can trigger an audible alarm. Pretty nice setup and gives so much expandability.

Perfect! I definitely want an audible Alarm for those important parameters.

 

[tdschafer]

A couple of notes on Alerts generated by a Maretron NMEA 2000 system.

• Alerts can be set as an Alarm or as a Warning. Alarms require immediate user intervention and shown in red on the Maretron displays and Warnings are for information and appear in yellow. All of my Alerts are set up as Alarms.
• Alerts can be set up for any device or sensor on the network that the Maretron display recognizes but are monitored and managed by the Maretron display they are set up on (not the end device like a RIM100).
• Alerts are established and programmed in the Maretron display (DSM410) and also monitored by that display they are set up in. Consequently, for a Alarm or Warning to display or annunciate on the system the display that the alert is programmed must be active.
• Alerts that become active (via the display they are set up in) will be transmitted across the NMEA 2000 network and will annunciate on all active display or audible devices provided the devices recognize the appropriate PGN (all Maretron devices will acknowledge and/or annunciate).
• Alerts can be acknowledged/responded to on any Maretron display active on the system.
• The screen in the Maretron device(s) that you have set up to view the device/channel (like a bilge pump on the RIM100) can be set up to change color when the device/channel changes state; this is not an Alert but rather how you configure the display of something. Conversely, an Alert provides notification on all screens and devices across the network and flashing that something has triggered an alert.

As a note relating to the discussion on leaving the NMEA 2000 power on; this is why my NMEA 2000 network is always powered on. It is important to me to always know when a Systems Monitor parameter becomes active.
Tom

Great Intel!

 

[Captain Z]

Hi All!

This great post just started the project on my boat, a 2001 540 Sundancer with 3196 CATs. I already have the NMEA network, the RIM100s, the maretron display, the fuse boxes and everything I should need, except the experience...

I want to have as a minimum, the same alarms I have now with the Searay systems monitor.

This is the diagram for the system monitor for my boat ( https://prnt.sc/1rnowkd )

There is another diagram showing where some cables like the CAT diagnostics come from. https://prnt.sc/1rnpc62https://prnt.sc/1rnpc62

I have a (+) and a (-) cable for the CAT diagnostics and for the transmissions temperature. Anyone knows how this should be connected?. I know from the second diagram that the pink/black cables (CAT diagnostics +) are coming from the EMS (the ugly CAT displays in the helm).

The fuel filters condition should be easy, its a simple switch.

The exhaust temp should be a switch, but it has three cables on it, but only one of those cables is going to the system monitor according to the diagram. Again, I dont know how the exhaust temp cable should be connected.

 

[ttmott]

Hi All!

This great post just started the project on my boat, a 2001 540 Sundancer with 3196 CATs. I already have the NMEA network, the RIM100s, the maretron display, the fuse boxes and everything I should need, except the experience...

I want to have as a minimum, the same alarms I have now with the Searay systems monitor.

This is the diagram for the system monitor for my boat ( https://prnt.sc/1rnowkd )
View attachment 111965
There is another diagram showing where some cables like the CAT diagnostics come from. https://prnt.sc/1rnpc62https://prnt.sc/1rnpc62
View attachment 111966


I have a (+) and a (-) cable for the CAT diagnostics and for the transmissions temperature. Anyone knows how this should be connected?. I know from the second diagram that the pink/black cables (CAT diagnostics +) are coming from the EMS (the ugly CAT displays in the helm).

The fuel filters condition should be easy, its a simple switch.

View attachment 111968

The exhaust temp should be a switch, but it has three cables on it, but only one of those cables is going to the system monitor according to the diagram. Again, I dont know how the exhaust temp cable should be connected.


View attachment 111969

I suspect the following -
On the engine diag. - If there is a problem with the engines the ECM grounds the Fault wire which I think is the negative to the Systems Monitor. The positive diag. may be a +5 volt ECM positive reference that turns on when the ign is on. Easy to check that.
On the Exhaust Temp - All of them I have seen one of the switch legs is connected to the engine block (ground). So, upon exhaust overtemp the wire to the systems monitor goes to ground. You need a fused positive to the RIM100 for the other side of the RIM100 exhaust overtemp channel.
The Trans temp is interesting - It appears to require power other than the ign. You'll need to measure that also. I'm not familiar with the Twin Disc controls.

 

[Skybolt]

Hi All!

This great post just started the project on my boat, a 2001 540 Sundancer with 3196 CATs. I already have the NMEA network, the RIM100s, the maretron display, the fuse boxes and everything I should need, except the experience...

I want to have as a minimum, the same alarms I have now with the Searay systems monitor. ...

Hi @Captain Z glad you found this thread, this is the one I was referring too.

Not sure which Cat diagnostics you have. Some of that era were J1939 and some were straight analog. It's been a while since I worked on them. @dtfeld may be able to shed some light on that. But if you have J1939 you can get an interface to convert over to NMEA2000 and that would give you all of the engine alarms and data on NMEA2000. If not you can use the analog signals a from the Sea Ray module for that.

For the analog devices I would tap into the signals directly going into the Sea Ray system monitor module. The RIM100 has high impedance inputs meaning it won't load the existing signal down, so that would be the best approach so you don't have to worry about serial communications and the like. I would make a harness with a deutsch connector coming off of the existing inputs. That makes for easy diagnostics and trouble shooting.

As for the transmission, it looks like there are + & - going to the SR module. I would use them both to activate the RIM100 input, meaning bring both wires to the input and use them only. The RIM100 needs + & - inputs to activate, much like turning a light on. so for the one wire inputs you need to determine if the signal is + or - (goes to ground) and supply the other side with the opposite voltage. As @ttmott said, for a signal going to ground when activated, you need to supply a fused positive voltage to the other side of the input.

If the engines are all analog you might want to consider converting them as well. I mention this because you could do that and gain real ECU messages on NMEA 2000 network for the engine and transmission at the same time of upgrading the system monitor.
http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/actisense-emu-1-engine-converter-analog-to-digital.101609/

 

[Captain Z]

Thank you Tom and SKybolt for the information.

The engines are J1939 and they are already connected to the NMEA network and providing all the info. The generator is 100% analog, but sending info to the NMEA through a veratron oceanlink screen that replaced the original analog gauges panel in the cockpit. The idea is to use the "new" system monitor for alarms redundancy.

Im going over and over the diagrams and slowly finding the info. My plan now is to move everything that I already know how to connect from the old to the new systems monitor . That will clean the old system monitor harness and make it easier for testing.

Do you know if there is any way to check if the over temperature switches are in good condition?

The heat sensor and the fuel filters condition switches go to ground.

Gen Oil pressure goes to ground too.

 

[Skybolt]

... Do you know if there is any way to check if the over temperature switches are in good condition? ...

Most if not all over temp switches go to ground if they are one wire. If they are two wire then they are isolated, but can still be grounded. Most on/off senders are ground activated as that is the safest signal to monitor from the bilge of a boat.

The J1939 to NMEA 2000 alarms would be better to use, IMO. On the DSM410 you can configure engine alarms to be monitored. I believe they are generated from the same sensor so redundancy should not be an issue.

To check the wiring just ground the sensor output and the alarm should go off. To check the sender you will need to pull the sender and use boiling water with a temp meter. When you test that way you need to let the sender go off then monitor it as it cools down. typically the water boils quicker then the sender's rate of change can keep up with.

I discuss how I tested all of my senders in this thread: http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/actisense-emu-1-engine-converter-analog-to-digital.101609/

 

[Captain Z]

Hi Guys!

Slower than expected but making progress. I already filled the first RIM with four bilge pumps, which worked perfectly. The low oil pressure switch for the generator worked perfectly too. Added the heat detector in the engine room, and I tested it with a hairdryer. It's 100% functional and triggers the alarm in the maretron screen as expected.

I took some measurements with the CAT diag (+) and (-) wires. I still don't understand what they do. I will go back to those later.

As soon as I make further progress, I will update.

 

[Skybolt]

... I took some measurements with the CAT diag (+) and (-) wires. I still don't understand what they do. I will go back to those later. ...

I think they monitor the J1939 comm. and alarm when it's down. I wouldn't worry about that because if your using the N2K data from that network, you will know when it's down.

 

[Captain Z]

Hi again!

Things are getting weird here!

Today was the day I wanted to connect the wires that I was sure I knew how they worked: the low oil pressure and the filter condition.

The low oil pressure wire has +24v when the ignition switch is ON and the engine stopped (zero oil pressure) . The funny thing is that the wire still has +24v when the engine runs ( oil pressure = 40 psi ). These tests were made with ground as reference.

Using the ignition wire (+24v) as reference, the voltage on the low oil pressure wire is always ~0v with the engine running or stopped (ignition switch was always on).

A little frustrated, I measured what I had in the fuel filter condition switches that are still attached to the old sea ray system monitor. And big surprise, +24v between the two connectors.

Any ideas?

 

[Skybolt]

Hi again!

Things are getting weird here!

Today was the day I wanted to connect the wires that I was sure I knew how they worked: the low oil pressure and the filter condition.

The low oil pressure wire has +24v when the ignition switch is ON and the engine stopped (zero oil pressure) . The funny thing is that the wire still has +24v when the engine runs ( oil pressure = 40 psi ). These tests were made with ground as reference.

Using the ignition wire (+24v) as reference, the voltage on the low oil pressure wire is always ~0v with the engine running or stopped (ignition switch was always on).

A little frustrated, I measured what I had in the fuel filter condition switches that are still attached to the old sea ray system monitor. And big surprise, +24v between the two connectors.

Any ideas?

Yeah, 24v boats can be a real PITA because they don't follow normal rules.

So here is a GUESS, your alarm switches are bi-pole and carry 24v. The system monitor references ground with open-collector inputs vs. drain inputs that want a ground signal. What does that mean?, when the 24v disappears the circuit virtually shuts off going to ground and triggers the alarm because the input, open collector transister, goes to ground triggering the sys monitor alarm. If that made any sense.

A way to test this is if the sys monitor still works, while the engine is running disconnect the low oil pressure signal wire. If that triggers the alarm then the system works very close to what I described and will be an issue for your simple just swap wires. That means you will need to use one of a few different ways, but I suggest a relay board which will create the needed signal. We can discuss what and how to do that if that test proves out. If I guessed wrong on how this works I don't believe you will hurt anything, just don't reconnect while the ignition is still on.

Try the fore mentioned test and that will confirm what you need to do next. Also @fwebster might be a great resource to check with as well. Frank might have some experience with these systems as not too many do with the 24v ones.

 

[bbwhitejr]

Here comes a dumb one…how do you remove the Systems Monitor display on the dash? Thanks!

Bennett

 

[Captain Z]

Here comes a dumb one…how do you remove the Systems Monitor display on the dash? Thanks!

Bennett

There are no dumb questions.

I dont know if my SR system monitor is exactly as yours, but in my case I had to remove the nuts from behind the dash.

Please take a look to these pictures, thats the back side of the SR system monitor I had. It may or may not be the same as yours.

There is a coaxial cable you have to unplug before removing the SR system monitor.

 

[Captain Z]

Yeah, 24v boats can be a real PITA because they don't follow normal rules.

So here is a GUESS, your alarm switches are bi-pole and carry 24v. The system monitor references ground with open-collector inputs vs. drain inputs that want a ground signal. What does that mean?, when the 24v disappears the circuit virtually shuts off going to ground and triggers the alarm because the input, open collector transister, goes to ground triggering the sys monitor alarm. If that made any sense.

A way to test this is if the sys monitor still works, while the engine is running disconnect the low oil pressure signal wire. If that triggers the alarm then the system works very close to what I described and will be an issue for your simple just swap wires. That means you will need to use one of a few different ways, but I suggest a relay board which will create the needed signal. We can discuss what and how to do that if that test proves out. If I guessed wrong on how this works I don't believe you will hurt anything, just don't reconnect while the ignition is still on.

Try the fore mentioned test and that will confirm what you need to do next. Also @fwebster might be a great resource to check with as well. Frank might have some experience with these systems as not too many do with the 24v ones.

@SKybolt thank you for all your help!

Tomorrow I will reconnect the old SR sys mon, it was working when i took it out and I will try your idea.

I will take the opportunity to remove the coaxial cable and install the old SR monitor in the engine room, that will help with the tests.

 

[bbwhitejr]

There are no dumb questions.

I dont know if my SR system monitor is exactly as yours, but in my case I had to remove the nuts from behind the dash.

Please take a look to these pictures, thats the back side of the SR system monitor I had. It may or may not be the same as yours.

There is a coaxial cable you have to unplug before removing the SR system monitor.

View attachment 112309 View attachment 112307 View attachment 112310

Thanks! The coax is what I am trying to get at.

Bennett

 

[Saverio]

can something similar be done with a gmi 20 Garmin?