Let me ask the Buyers a question

I’m not going to fight you folks on the 16 but these two are certified CAT mechanics. Both don’t like them due to the turbo placement. They both said they inject water and fowl the blades and shaft. Both work on LARGE CAT gensets, I mean full building sets.

I have no idea about CATs so I’m trusting other boaters and the guys that work on them
 
dwna1a said:
All of the 400’s seem to have the 3116. The CAT guys said to stay far away from them.

The survey were done by two folks looking to by. That’s another story. One couldn’t get the funds, the other wanted to ship the boat to the west coast. Both were independent of each other.
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I have the 3116’s, coming up on 1800 hours. Original turbos, no issues yet. They both still make the 2800 WOT, no sooting at all.

Oil samples fine every year. I’ve put 700 of the 1800 hours on them since 2016. Regular maintenance and a couple of those pesky fuel relays is all that’s been needed.
 
We owned a 450DA for 27 years...she was powered by 350hp 3116's and the only time a mechanic even looked at my engines was to do routine maintenance that I was not equipped to do, like resetting the valves and injectors.....250 hours and 1000 hours and 2000 hour timing.

The other interesting thing about the 3116 is how efficient they are. They will cruise at rated cruise rpms and only burn 22.6gph....pull the throttles back to 2000 to 2150 and the fuel burn goes down to 18 to 19 gph.
 
Ok folks, if I walk away from this one I will go back to looking at them
 
After 21 years of ownership deciding to move up from my 33' Ten Meter Trojan Express with twin Yanmar 6 cylinder turbo diesels was difficult.

That boat was PERFECT and the Yanmars sipped fuel.

My own search was extremely narrow, as I have a fixed bridge to the dock at my home.

This bridge is split with a center support and is EXTREMELY NARROW, and also has a turn immediately before AND after it.

These turns also create a blind spot both coming and going.

Occasionally an inexperienced boater gets sideways and you can't see him till it's too late.

When the current is running hard, it can and will push a boat sideways - worse if the wind is blowing the wrong way.

My 33' Trojan with her 13' beam could handle it. Anything much wider or longer would require a bow thruster

CSR was a tremendous resource in looking at my choices from the 40' + Tiaras and Trojans.

Focused on the 1995-1997 450 DA, galley to port - Just like Frank Webster's boat.

Even the 1999+ 460DA was too tall.

This narrow focus resulted in few boats to buy, or even see.

I'm in SW Florida.

Was looking at all the boat listings DAILY for months.

Drove to Jacksonville to see a poorly maintained 450DA with a wet, moldy interior and water intrusion around the forward hatches.

Had a buddy from the BoaterED forum take a look and I put a deposit on one on Long Island, NY, flew up for the survey which failed due to a wet transom, cracked water tank and numerous "wet" issues.

Flew to Baltimore, MD to see another one. Private seller. Had my attorney do up a blank contract. Owner took me for an extended sea trial - my first genuine on the big water experience with the 450DA and 3116 CATS - - - - OH MY, WAS I IMPRESSED !!! ..... however, as well as it ran, THAT boat was a cobbled up nightmare.

Shortly thereafter one pops up in Marina Del Rey, CA.

Transport a 45' boat from CA to FL ???

AM I CRAZY ?

Well, this particular boat was equipped with BOTH FWD and AFT thrusters.

That value made up for the transport cost, as I would have spent that much for just the necessary bow thruster.

After hundreds of photos and video, including the broker doing a sea trial, I did the deposit.

Flew to LA for the complete hull and full CAT surveys, and after further survey based negotiation and pricing adjustment, flew back out 10 days later to prep her for transport.

Spent Christmas eve and Christmas day on her, (yes, I put a string of lights on her bow rail) and prior to stripping her down for transport, took her out in the Pacific Ocean twice.

I also had an additional PRICELESS advantage, I had a Consigliere........ Dr. Frank Webster, to whom I am eternally grateful.

So, here's an example of seeking a very specific vessel, and the time, cost and trouble that went into the investigation/find/survey/purchase.

While your own needs are wider than my own specific ones, there is a tremendous benefit to seeing/seatrialing several.

WHAT AN ADVENTURE !!!

For me, "the boat" has been a big part of my life for over 30 years, and I consider myself to be very fortunate to have ended up where I am.

THANKS AGAIN, FRANK !

BEST !

RWS
 
Tomorrow I go meet with the boats broker and owner. Can someone please tell me my next steps? I’ve never worked with a broker before and I don’t want to look but so dumb. I’m sure the broker will be working for the seller and no so much me. Once I get here hull ID I will run a report on the girl. I also hope to see records and last survey.
 
dwna1a said:
Tomorrow I go meet with the boats broker and owner. Can someone please tell me my next steps? I’ve never worked with a broker before and I don’t want to look but so dumb. I’m sure the broker will be working for the seller and no so much me. Once I get here hull ID I will run a report on the girl. I also hope to see records and last survey.
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If you like the boat and the report, the next step would be to make an offer and put earnest money down, the contract usually will be pending the surveys and obtaining financing. If accepted, find surveyors. Then negotiate a final price based on correcting anything found in the surveys. Or walk away if you don’t like the survey results.
 
I learned a lesson from my first broker buying relationship.

Sal Scalia in Miami (RIP) told me his job was to take the emotion out of the sale.

The seller has an inflated opinion of what the boat is worth, since he likely paid more for it and it has depreciated during his ownership, plus his costs of upgrade and maintenance during his ownership.

The boat is full of his memories and adventures, and the price he once paid.

Brokers job is to introduce some reality into the mix.

Lock the boat up with an offer that is acceptable to both parties.

The real negotiation takes place AFTER THE SURVEY !!!

BEST !

RWS
 
Can I or should I use the last two surveys form the last two months. He has corrected what was found in those according the shop manager
 
dwna1a said:
I’m not going to fight you folks on the 16 but these two are certified CAT mechanics. Both don’t like them due to the turbo placement. They both said they inject water and fowl the blades and shaft. Both work on LARGE CAT gensets, I mean full building sets.

I have no idea about CATs so I’m trusting other boaters and the guys that work on them
Click to expand...
I asked my Cat mech who has worked on the marine Cats his whole career about the water thing - news to him.
 
dwna1a said:
Can I or should I use the last two surveys form the last two months. He has corrected what was found in those according the shop manager
Click to expand...
I say absolutely but as information only. If they show the boat in good enough condition for you then make an offer contingent upon your own hired surveyor. If you plan to get a loan then insurance then you'll probably have to get it surveyed anyway as a component of the closing. The question I have is why didn't the boat sell on one or other of the surveys - they are expensive....
 
ttmott said:
I say absolutely but as information only. If they show the boat in good enough condition for you then make an offer contingent upon your own hired surveyor. If you plan to get a loan then insurance then you'll probably have to get it surveyed anyway as a component of the closing. The question I have is why didn't the boat sell on one or other of the surveys - they are expensive....
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T, the first buyer wanted to transport the boat to the west coast. He found out the boat was too tall and wide and they would need permits. So he backed out. The other could not get financing. Both surveys found small items. Both items have been fixed, per the yard
 
If it falls apart I still own my boat. I will wait till Fall and try again
 
dwna1a said:
Can I or should I use the last two surveys form the last two months. He has corrected what was found in those according the shop manager
Click to expand...
Most would advise a new survey. That may or may not be possible depending on the surveyors available. If the items have been fixed, maybe it's worth talking to the surveyors and have one verify the fixes and whether anything has changed. But research the surveyors -- are they one's sellers hate or like?
 
dwna1a said:
T, the first buyer wanted to transport the boat to the west coast. He found out the boat was too tall and wide and they would need permits. So he backed out. The other could not get financing. Both surveys found small items. Both items have been fixed, per the yard
Click to expand...
Sounds like you may have found a good boat. Best wishes! But, as we all know listen to your gut and take nothing for granted.
 
I walked away. Thank you all for the help and advice.
 
It wasn’t the boat at all. I was me. In five months my truck is pd off. In six my tractor is done, in twelve my wife’s truck. I don’t like loans. All of these will be done two years early. Second thing was I could not find a slip near me or in the marina I’m in. My plan is to wait till these loans are done before I start another
 
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