Let's say I want to drop out of society.....

[Turtlesboat]

Cruise, or sail, from NY to Alaska over a period of 2 years. What kind of boat would you do it in???? Let's say I have $250g's to spend on a boat and another $250g's on expenses. mostly coastal cruising, don't mind hugging the coast, but i'm sure there will be times where it will get pretty rough. Mostly 2 people, a dog, some hitchhikers? family members visiting... Going through the Panama Canal...

would you go for bigger but slower? or faster and smaller? gas vs sail?

Not that i'm thinking of doing this.... or am I???

what kind of boat would one attempt this in and why?

 

[amex]

They are doing it:

http://www.sailingcielo.com

 

[Nehalennia]

First, what a great topic.
Secondly, before I give my opinion, can I come for the last leg(s) from Portland to Alaska?
While you plan this psuedo-fantasy trip, take a look at this.
http://www.13000miles.com/challenge.html
I met these guysin Friday Harbor, a few days into their crazy trip.
Loaded down with Fuel and gear in stainless steel baskets on 2 Jet-skis, I thought they were nuts.

I think the problem for a nice slow one-lunger would be time. A nice roomy sailboat may be the best but still slow. Can you take/afford even with your budget a 33'+ SeaRay Cruiser style to and at the rate of let's say 1.5-2 mpg x 18000 miles= 9000 gallons of fuel x $3/gal? That's $27,000 is that conservative enough? or do we need to consider much worse weather and fuel burn?

Next I would think to plan on fuel range and stops. Many jaunts would most likely require shoreline hugging and "the most direct route" may not be attainable due to fuel range.

The only thing I know about Alaska (only being there twice) is that June would be the best month to arrive

 

[Sundancer]

I'd sail, but I'd avoid the canal. Too many mosquitoes!! Instead, go north through the northern passage!! Actually, I think I'd just go from San Diego north to Alaska and then return or sell the boat and then buy another on the East coast and do the great circle!!

If there were just two, I'd go for a 35 +/- a few feet. That would be comfortable, allow room for gear and allow room for the occasional visit from landlubbers.

If you have two years, gas would be faster but you might miss some of the scenery along the way. I'd save the gas for the great circle trip. I hear it's tough to step the mast on the down stream part going under all the bridges? Makes sense, but I don't have any experience there.

 

[Alex D]

My dream !!
I would make such a journey in a trawler with small twin diesels or even a single diesel. a 40 to 45 foot trawler such as the North Pacific 43 http://www.northpacificyachts.com/ would be my choice, but there are many others well suited from Mainship, Grand Banks, etc. this is our dream ... to do the big loop one day in a trawler.

 

[fwebster]

Forget routes that go to places with unknown or anti-American political climates or an economic level so dire that you are a target.

For boats, I want to go when I want to, not when the wind blows. For me it would be a Marlow, a Fleming, a Krogen, a Nordhaven or perhaps a big Grand Banks.

 

[ken]

Twin screw diesel trawler would be safe and comfortable with a good cruiising range. There are trawlers out there that move at a pretty decent pace so you wouldn't have to worry about rag boats passing you.

 

[Sorrento 25]

Definitely a trawler and preferably a Nordhaven.

 

[Turtlesboat]

testing the quick reply. So Amex sent me some GREAT links to people dropping out and cruising the world. Didn't get much work done today with all the great reading. Concerns with gas or diesel:

1: expense. not only in gas but also maint. where to get, range, mechanical issues, reliability.

2: Noise. How long could one stand the engines growling days on end before you go bonkers.

3: cost of buying a reliable boat with reliable engines. gotta be big

Sail concerns:

1: not having any experience on a sailboat bigger than 15'

2: no wind, you have to crank up the engine and motor slowly (relative)

3: space. seems like same length = less living space on most sailboats compared to power.

4: comfort. not much "cockpit space" on sailboats.


seems like the savings in fuel and maint is made up for time and comfort.

So lets stick to power I guess. do you pick a displacement haul or semi displacement haul? I know how my 280 feels on the ocean and it isn't nice unless it's really really calm. Would I need to move up to 40+ feet? or would a 38' trawler do the trick?

would you suggest doing this in stages? say another season in my 280 doing weeks at a time? or move up now to something bigger and go for distance?

I wish I had more experience with different kinds of boats but I don't. So far this season I have 65 nights clocked on the boat. I like the fact that I can get from a to b in good time. space is an issue as well as comfort in any kind of weather. I'm just not sure how big I have to go to get over less than ideal weather conditions. any kind of weather on a 280 and no one gets any sleep.

Cruising in less than ideal countries.... maybe a large gun mounted on the bow?

 

[Hampton]

Big, Slow, Sailing.

You don't want to be dependent on gas stations/ports. You're doing it to be free, so be free. Fish for dinner. Run a big fan and solar cells to augment a gen set for electricity. I'll probably do this some day. Everyone's personalilty is different, but when I'm cruisng on gas, I'm thinking about the cost every mile of the way.

We rented a 43' Moorings monohull in the BVI for a week. Just me, the wife, and the two little girls. A lifetime of pleasant memories.

 

[ylwjacket]

I'd say you'd want to buy my 450EB for that trip.

 

[comsnark]

Big sailboats are not any worse than small sailboats in terms of cruising. In fact. . .bigger is better when out on the water. For this type of cruise, don't sneer at a sailing catamaran. Catamarans are faster, have more living space, and are well behaved at the dock.

Fuel cost for this trip in a power boat is very, very not trivial. Engine work on the water is no picknick either. A puffer without sails still goes pretty well under power. And 30hp diesels are VERY cheap to run.

 

[Go Aweigh2452]

Fwebster has the right answer to trawlers. My #1 would be a Krogen then the Norhaven...

 

[Asureyez]

Mike, The romantic idea is a reality for many. If you and your 1st. mate are both physically sound and have strong endurance, you can look into a sail boat. Sail will be th easiest on your pocket book and will give you a tremendous experience as well. There a Valiant 42 canoe stern aft cockpit design makes the most sense but without question a sail under 45 feet unless you are going to bring crew of you are a very accomplished and fit sailor. If so then a well found older Deerfoot might make sense.

As for power, A Nordhaven 40-50 foot. For me that would be the beginning and the end. You have North Sea designed sea keeping, great crusing range on fuel (1000-1200 miles) and can carry a substaintial amount of stores and spares. Most have single main with a small HP aux kicker to "get home".

The Pacific Coast in Alaska and Canada will require all you've got in fuel and skills. The coasts along Belize to Panama should be taken cautiously as pirates still ply these coasts and there is no CG to bale your butt out of trouble! I'd consider skirting most of these areas well off and out of coastal radar range.

 

[aquadancer]

Here's a set of cruising logs you may find interesting. These guys did the inside passage to Alaska on Grand Banks 42, then upgraded to a Nordhavn, cruised down the Pacific Coast, Panama Canal, and up to New England.

Good reading

http://www.knottydog.com/TABLE.htm

Trawlers are great for this, but you will still be going pretty slow at hull speed

 

[Nehalennia]

..........
The Pacific Coast in Alaska and Canada will require all you've got in fuel and skills......

From OR to Alaska you will have plenty of spots for fuel and supplies. The inside passage should not be missed, but you'll have tons of destinations

 

[AndersonAcres]

If you do the power route, diesel is the only way to go. It's a safer fuel, the engines have better longevity, and the higher torque means better speed at lower RPM and lower fuel consumption.

However, the noise & vibration will really get you, IMO -- if'n the fuel costs don't get you first.

I have a powerboat, but for a trip like that, sail is the only way. Of course, you need to get good at sailing before you go. It's also a good idea to do a Bermuda run or a run to the UK before you take off on the grand cruise. Go out in some sizable storms to see how you like that part of it.

Sailboats can be very luxurious, and the quiet is very nice. I've cruised power and sail, and for very long distances letting the wind work for you gets my vote.

If you're going really far, don't rule out the Panama Canal. I did it in a 2-masted schooner many years back and it was great. We sailed there from Jamaica and so missed the pirates that may be along the Honduras/Nicaragua coast.

A catamaran is a comfy stable platform. So is a trimaran, and they tack through the wind better.

If you're going to Alaska or anywhere that far north (or really far south for that matter), you also want a boat (whether power or sail) with an inside steering station with engine controls. A reliable autopilot (the robust ones that go under the deck) is a almost certain must for such a long voyage, as is a complete backup system.

RO watermaker is nearly a must, too.

What a great idea to toy with.

 

[Turtlesboat]

That's a good point. Most of the sailboats i've seen in the 40' and under don't seem to have good protection from the elements when at the wheel. It seems like most trawlers (smallish) burn about 1 gallon per NM. you start adding up those miles at todays prices and it gets pretty expensive.

Learning to sail.... I've had small sailboats when I was young, nothing near this big or complicated. How long would you think it would take to get up to snuff enough to make a long journey? 1 year? 2 years? More?

The more I read, the more confused I get. It's really two different camps and I can see good and bad points in each decision.

 

[Hampton]

Mike,

I owned a Sunfish for a year and a half when I was 11. I sailed an 18' sloop a few times in Okinawa. I helped a friend race his 34' once or twice. Then, I rented a 43' Beneteau in the BVI for a week with my wife and 2 young daughters - solo. Mind you, other than the 18 - 22 knot winds, it's like your back yard - lots of help if you need it, but we didn't.

We had the time of our lives. For your voyage, I would recommend exposure to a greater variety of weather, but, you can do it.

 

[AndersonAcres]

Mike learning to sail to the extent you'd need to for a voyage like this would take you, taking a wild a$$ guess, 6 months to a year. That is if you could do it nearly full time.

It might be much shorter if you're a quick study and already know more than the basics of how to sail. And, it's not so much how to sail as it is how to maintain your floating home in good working condition.

A larger sailboat has every system we have on our power boats, and then some. All the standing and running rigging needs to be thoroughly understood not only from a how to sail with it, but also how to keep it tuned and then deal with the eventual repairs.

Sail trim takes a while to master.

Then you need a boat. What do you do first, get the boat and learn all about it? Or do you get up to speed on sailing, then find your ideal boat based on that? I'd go for the latter. During the time you're getting your sailing education, you'll likely be in many discussions on the pros & cons of various types of boats. If you're lucky, you'll get experience on different types.

Maybe a good place to start is crewing on some of the windbags at or near your marina. If that goes well, perhaps you can crew on some long distance voyage, like to Bermuda. Going offshore for a long voyage before you get too far down the road gives you a real taste of what you're in for. Especially if you have a storm or two. Your gut tells you (and your crew) if you like the exhilaration of being scared to death, wet and cold, for hours on end, perhaps 100s of miles from land. Some put up with that part of ocean voyaging for the rewards and the relief of just getting through it; the almost blissful peace and calm after a big blow; the feeling of being so very close to nature; the places and people you'd never meet any other way. Etc.

With our power boats we can outrun storms, and frequently do. With a sailboat you're right there in it with no escape. Better to find out what it's like on the front end and then go ahead.

Many folks don't do that and sell their dream boat and go back ashore after one tough passage.

Books on ocean voyaging, and particularly on shipwrecked mariners, might be a good place to start. Reading about sailors cast adrift is an educational experience. It always gets me mentally updating the contents of my 'ditch bag' and the liferaft.

Oh yeah, the liferaft.

G'nite, Mike.

(BTW, my dream ocean voyaging sailboat is a 30'-ish trimaran made by Ian Farrier.....http://f-boat.com/. They're not roomy, but fast.