Odds of Getting into Ivy's

[rpasquarello]

Looking for suggestions here.

My daughter, who is an outstanding high school senior with an awesome resume both academically and extracurricular/volunteering (i.e. Local FD, hospital, Rotary/RYLA/Interact, etc) has applied to UPenn, Yale and Barnard and is waiting to hear back. But, as I am not a Senator or an alumni, the chances of being accepted are stacked way against her.

Any realistic suggestions to increase her odds?

FYI, those are her reach schools due to the acceptance rates, but the academics, scores, etc. have her in the ranges....

She was accepted as well to Tulane with an excellent merit award, and is awaiting to hear back from other colleges, but it would be nice to have her closer to home and not 22 hours away....

Thanks,

Rocco

PS-

She just read these replies and said "Wow". They really took time out to think and reply"

 

[Tonka Boater]

A friend of ours is the bursar at an elite university in Massachusetts. This couple is very well respected in the suburban Boston area and their children all attend BC and Harvard.

The advice they gave us for our kids (who are currently 12 & 13) is this: The student's grades mean very little to the school... what they meant was, everyone who is accepted has a 4.0 and aced their SAT's -- it's a given that these students are smart so their brains will not set them apart from the rest of the student body. The elite schools look for 2 things; one, they want students with a story. Beyond grades, why are you special? Why should we care about you? What are your ambitions in life? Why are your ambitions important to you? How will you achieve them? What have you done so far? For example, if a student overcame, and beat some insurmountable odds, with something health or medical related and decided early in life that they will devote their life to curing neurological disorders in children because it's something that is near and dear to their heart and that they can personally relate to.

Number two, they want students with high potential to be something great in society so they will a) give back to society and b) give back financially to the school in the future. The elite schools are looking to produce future politicians, inventors, and great minds so they will in turn make the school look good.

There are many other factors but having good grades and being a good citizen are things they expect and won't make you stand out.

 

[BillK2632]

Glad I am on the backside of this - my daughter is a senior in college. I remember well the anxiety of applying to college and waiting on those letters. Luckily she had some choices and ended up going to one of her top choices. If the grades and activities are there, it really ends up being a crap shoot of who get's accepted. She went to a private high school that had several people who did nothing but help students apply for and get into college. They told us, that aside from all the good grades and you stand out stuff - if you really have your heart set on a certain school then apply early acceptance / early decision - this shows the school that you really want to go there. Also, for a school that you have been put on the wait list or didn't get accepted, have the high school counselor call the school, again showing that is where the student wants to go can sometimes change their decision. Oh, and Mom and Dad, certainly help all you can, but in a "support role", let your student handle the communication with the universities, they hate when Mom and Dad get involved. This becomes even more evident after they start college - remember your kid is going to college, not you.

Don't think that just be cause your are not a who's who that gives big $$ you can't get it, yeah I am sure some kids get into elite schools this way, but the whole class doesn't come through that door -- the universities want diversity in their classes and a lot of their acceptance depends on the incoming class makeup. Also, most schools are need blind now, meaning they don't know (or at least should not know) what your financial situation is during the decision making process. Acceptance is supposed to be based on the students grades and accomplishments, not their ability to pay tuition.

 

[rpasquarello]

A friend of ours is the bursar at an elite university in Massachusetts. This couple is very well respected in the suburban Boston area and their children all attend BU and Harvard.

The advice they gave us for our kids (who are currently 12 & 13) is this: The student's grades mean very little to the school... what they meant was, everyone who is accepted has a 4.0 and aced their SAT's -- it's a given that these students are smart so their brains will not set them apart from the rest of the student body. The elite schools look for 2 things; one, they want students with a story. Beyond grades, why are you special? Why should we care about you? What are your ambitions in life? Why are your ambitions important to you? How will you achieve them? What have you done so far? For example, if a student overcame, and beat some insurmountable odds, with something health or medical related and decided early in life that they will devote their life to curing neurological disorders in children because it's something that is near and dear to their heart and that they can personally relate to.

Number two, they want students with high potential to be something great in society so they will a) give back to society and b) give back financially to the school in the future. The elite schools are looking to produce future politicians, inventors, and great minds so they will in turn make the school look good.

There are many other factors but having good grades and being a good citizen are things they expect and won't make you stand out.

Thanks for the detailed points. Academically and citizenship-wise she's solid. I've gotten great feedback on her community involvement for her work with the Rotary and homeless vets, etc.

Your above points will help her understand and better prepare for potential face-to-face interview discussion points.

-Rocco-

 

[LTD.330]

Rocco,

Congratulations to you and your daughter. If she is aiming for IVY League, you and your wife did it right.

Please ignore the troll. He literally adds nothing to the forum.


Pete.

 

[Zorba]

Glad this thread is back on point. Good luck to your daughter. From the sounds of it she will do just fine getting in anywhere she wants.

 

[fwebster]

My son is the assistant dean of admissions for a leading private university and I've been thru the private schools selection process twice with my own kids, so I have a little more experience at this than most folks. A great H.S. resume is critical. Grades, test scores, academic awards, extracurriculars are all kind of mandatory. Everyone applying to a top tier school has the grades so the schools are looking for something that makes the student stand out. Extra curricular activities are good, but having earned leadership roles in those activities makes a difference. Also, keep in mind that the admissions officers your daughter will encounter have 2 jobs: first, is to sell the school to the student and parents while answering all the student's questions, and second, they must determine if the student is a fit and has the desired level of maturity, can think on their feet, and can communicate well both verbally and in writing.

The interview and the application, including the essay, are what the student leaves behind to be judged on........they are important. My son is in what he calls his "reading period" His university has enough applicants so all his admissions counselors are doing pretty much nothing but giving tours, doing interviews and reading applications from Dec 1 to March 31. They can't possibly remember each applicant so standing out is really important and there is some subjectivity involved in the selection process.

Congratulation on your daughter's success.................

 

[Kreole Kid]

Rocco, Congrats to you and your family!!! :smt038

Even though I'm getting out of boating, if your daughter decides Tulane is her school, let her know she's got family down here already :thumbsup:

 

[frosh coach]

Rocco if she gets into yale (where I work), my Marina is a 5-10 ride away. You can always visit by boat.

 

[BritLady]

Congrats! Apples don't fall far from the tree! Sounds as if she will do well wherever she goes. Wish her good luck, do hope she gets to go where she wants to

 

[rpasquarello]

Rocco if she gets into yale (where I work), my Marina is a 5-10 ride away. You can always visit by boat.

I hope I can take you up on that! :smt038

 

[BillK2632]

All the stress and work of getting into the college she wants aside - look forward to some fun times. Helping our daughter get in and go off to college was a lot of change for everyone, I was a complete mess the day we moved her into the dorm for the first time. She is about 1.5hrs away, and getting that occasional "hey Dad, can you come up for dinner one night next week?" just makes my day. The times we have had over the last 4 years have been great - letting go was hard, but seeing that little girl we dropped off 4yrs ago turn into an accomplished young woman is what it is all about. I don't think there is anything better for a parent than watching your child succeed.

 

[rpasquarello]

All the stress and work of getting into the college she wants aside - look forward to some fun times. Helping our daughter get in and go off to college was a lot of change for everyone, I was a complete mess the day we moved her into the dorm for the first time. She is about 1.5hrs away, and getting that occasional "hey Dad, can you come up for dinner one night next week?" just makes my day. The times we have had over the last 4 years have been great - letting go was hard, but seeing that little girl we dropped off 4yrs ago turn into an accomplished young woman is what it is all about. I don't think there is anything better for a parent than watching your child succeed.

Bill,

I am totally with you on this. It would be nice to drop in for dinner before I grab a train home to Long Island or have her close enough to drive to within a day if she needs Mom or Dad.

It will be hard letting her go next year, but it is my dream to have both of my daughters (the younger one is a Sophmore in high school) do better for themselves, to take advantage of opportunities I never had and to have a better life than I had....

I think most parents would agree.

-Rocco-

 

[JVM225]

Of the ones you mentioned, I think Barnard (which is affiliated with Columbia, but with slightly higher acceptance rate) may be the easiest for her to get in to.
A lot also depends on what major she is applying as. Different schools in a University often have different thresholds for admission.
A well rounded resume seems to be key these days. But it has to be realistic and meaningful. There are lots of kids being toted around by their parents to all kinds of things just so they can get their tickets punched for the sake of "being well rounded". The admissions people can see through that stuff.
My daughter is a freshman at GW this year, which was initially her second choice.
She also had a fantastic well rounded resume, did a lot of extra-curriculars outside of the school, especially through the Girl Scouts, including representing them at a world forum, going to their leadership program, doing a research internship working on cancer drugs the summer between junior and senior years, working part time, being on two committees in our local Village for several years, etc. Her grades were terrific, she had a 2100 SAT, and 31 ACT.
She didn't apply to any of the Ivy's because they weren't what she was looking for. Her priorities were to be in either DC, Boston, or NYC. She was sure that she wanted to be in a city school. She didn't apply to BC because it was too suburban for her.
We forced her to apply to Binghamton and Stonybrook as safety schools, but she made it clear that she absolutely didn't want to go to either one, and would opt to go to City College if it came to that.
She got in to all but one of the schools she applied to, including NYU, Fordham, BU, etc.. Her reach school was Georgetown. It was the only school she didn't get in to. Had she applied Early Decision, she more than likely would be going to Georgetwon now. They took more than half their freshman class from the applications for early decision.
It turned out for the best, because she is very happy where she is, and feels that GW is a much better fit for her.
Personally, I was hoping she would commit to NYU, but she wanted to go away. In the end, they have to be happy.
Anyway, my point is this: If you know for sure that you really want to go to a particular school, apply Early Decision. You stand a much better chance of getting in because the schools want to know who is in their incoming class as soon as possible.
Especially these days when kids are applying to so many schools. The better schools don't like having to send out more acceptance letters than they need to. Especially to kids that will wind up going elsewhere. It make them look bad.
They also like to admit kids who they feel will be more successfull at their school. They want them to finish there.
On a side note: I learned that Long Island school districts in general, are known for inflating GPA's with weighted grades in challlenging classes, and making other courses a little easier. You'll notice that many of the better schools will take GPA's from all around the country with a grain of salt because they are so subjective.
Most of the admissions people handle regions of the country, and have profiles of the High Schools in the regions they cover.
They know that a 3.9 in one school may be a 4.0 in another, or a 3.7 somewhere else.

 

[rpasquarello]

Of the ones you mentioned...

It seems like your daughter and mine had a lot in common with applications. She did apply to the same SUNY school as your daughter and even BC (expected answer in a week or so). She would love Barnard if the others don't come through and it's realistically a better shot. Tulane accepted her already as did Quinnipiac (both gave her over 50% merit scholarships towards tuition) and CW Post (safety). Her ACT was a 32 (I don't know what her SAT was offhand) and she's in the top 2% of her graduating class, etc., etc. She's super-well diversified inside and outside of school, etc. but she is, as you said, "realistic and meaningful." Even though she applied to some "safeties" on LI, she's made it clear that she wants to go away.

She clearly understands that we have a lot to consider (ie, loans, travel, quality, etc.) when the rest of the other letters come in -- ie Barnard, BC, BU, William and Mary, Fordham, Loyola,Univ. of Richmond, Macaulay Honors College at CUNY [which the head of guidance at her HS told her to apply to] --before she makes her choice.

From all the helpful advise in these posts, it's clear that many here have been through this painful process and survive!

-Rocco-

 

[JVM225]

The Macauley Honors College is a great deal if she gets in there. A girl my daughter worked in the lab with is going there.
City College isn't a bad deal either if she is in to science.
Watch out on the Merit awards. They are different than what many people call academic scholarships which are usually earmarked for students who have a financial need to give them the opportunity to attend a school they normally wouldn't be able to attend.
The better schools don't give away much merit award money because they don't have to. The Ivy's, and a couple of the top schools don't give any merit money at all. When people tell you they got money, or a ride to those schools based on academics, it's usually because of a financial need as determined by their "Expected Family Contribution", and the total cost of attendance.
If EFC is 50K a year, and total cost is 70K, there is a 20K gap that a private school may choose to offer by way of scholarships if the student is an attractive enough candidate.
If the EFC is 100K a year, and the total cost is only 70K, the only money you can hope for is a true merit based award which generally means they have to maintain a certain GPA, or they lose it. The better the school, the less likely they are to offer it.
If a student has a need, and is an attractive candidate because of academics, then the school may opt to offer them scholarship money in order to get them to commit to attend. But you must have the financial need first.
If you have no need, then they don't offer the scholarship money.
The lower in the (subjective) ratings a school is, the more likely they are to offer actual merit money.
My daughter got the most that her school offers. It's a "presidential award" of 20K based purely on academics. We have no financial need because our Expected Family Contribution exceeded the cost of attendance. The award seemed like a lot at first glance, and we are very happy to have it, but once we saw what the total cost of attendance was, it didn't seem like a whole lot. We project our total out of pocket expenses to be about 208K for the 4 years after factoring in the award. Still better than the 288K it would cost without it. Like most city schools, student housing and other living expenses are very expensive.
I think (can't really remember) that Fordham offered a little more, but again, she wanted to be away, so like NYU, she wouldn't consider it.
BTW: Fordham is a great school. I'm hoping my son will go there
The good news is that I don't have to fill out the FAFSA anymore. That's a few hours of my life that I'll never get back. I won't get anything from it (unless my financial situation changes), so there is no requirement that I fill it out.
NYU didn't offer her anything, I don't think they give any merit money. I know that Georgetown doesn't give any academic "merit" money without financial need. Although she didn't apply to Duke, I know that they don't offer pure merit money either.
If I remember correctly, BU offers either a 20K merit award, or a 40K merit award based purely on academics.
I point this out, because after years of hearing how hard working kids were getting money for these great schools, we were a little taken aback when our time came and started thinking that maybe she wasn't as great as we thought she was until we found out the real deal.
Pretty much everyone tells you that they don't qualify for financial aid of any kind (take what they tell you with a grain of salt), yet according to the schools own statistics, the vast majority of students get something, and they call it a "scholarship".
We have a family who told us their son got a full ride to Stonybrook the year before our daughter graduated. Only problem is that we found out that the state schools don't do that.
I know another kid who claims he got a full academic ride to NYU, and the parents said they didn't qualify for any aid. NYU doesn't offer anything like that because they don't have to. The kid is really a bright kid, dad is in a cash business, and mom works off the books. Do the math.
My daughter had other friends who got in to Ivy's, and other top schools, yet went to either state schools or lower rated schools because they didn't get any money and although the FAFSA indicated the parents could afford them, the reality was that the parents couldn't, or maybe chose not to. The valedictorian in her class got in to a couple of Ivy's, but went to BU because they gave her 20K a year in true merit money.
Another one of her friends is going to BU for free, while yet another girl in her group who was much stronger academically and also got accepted there, is going to St. Johns. The second girl had better SAT's, grades, resume, etc., but her parents had no financial need. St. Johns gave her a lot of money because they normally don't attract candidates in that range.
The girl going to BU for free is a good student, not as strong as the others, but her father is in a cash business.
Life isn't always fair.
One way to know someone who tells you they don't get financial aid isn't being totally honest is work study. Work study is a federal aid program that is based on need. Although the student gets the paycheck, it is subsidized by the feds to help offset the cost of attendance.
Another way to tell is when the person tells you they don't qualify for aid talks about what a great deal student loans are because you don't pay interest until after graduation.
The truth is that although the Stafford (those are taken by the kids)and parents plus loans don't have to be paid until after graduation, they accumulate interest from the day they are disbursed unless they are subsidized. In order for them to be subsidized (taxpayers pay the interest until after graduation), you have to have a financial need as determined by the FAFSA.
All kids qualify for unsubsidized Stafford loans, but the interest rates are relatively high on them, and the interest starts on day one. Parents take the other loans, and the same rules apply.
You'll survive the process, and she'll wind up someplace that is a good fit for her which will make it all worth it.
I get to do it all over again soon with my son who is a sophomore in High School. He is also a good student, not quite as strong as my daughter, and he works a lot harder for it, but we're hoping that he is going to be applying to some pretty decent schools too.
We've already resigned ourselves to the fact that we're going to be spending half a million bucks on education for the two of them, but we're hoping that if we live through it they won't need to take up residence in our basement after they graduate, and maybe they'll take care of us so that we don't have to eat cat food when we're in our 80's.

 

[rpasquarello]

The Macauley Honors College.......cat food when we're in our 80's.

Thanks for the additional info. Tulane gave her a "partial tuition scholarship". They "range from $10,000 to $32,000 per year, require no special application and are awarded by the admission office based on the strength of the admission application within the context of a given year's applicant pool." Quinnipiac gave her the maximum version of theirs...

Gotta' get back to work now to pay for all this....