Replace all bellows with a gimbal bearing replace?

[dsteele1]

I'm getting the gimbal bearing replaced (under warranty hopefully) due to a growling noise in the outdrive and am wondering if it is wise to replace all of the bellows also (exhaust, shift cable and u-joint) while they are in there. :huh:

What do you guys think? The boat is 2 1/2 years old and has never had any of thes parts replaced. I think I know the answer already but the $$$ are a rising on my list of service order repairs. :smt101

Thanks! :grin:

 

[Dave S]

It's probably not necessary unless the dealer suspects you have a water leak in the bellows in which case they ought to replace the bellows under warranty as well. Let them pull the drive and figure out why the gimbal bearing went bad. If it was water intrusion they should know what to replace on the outdrive if you had a leak. If it was an engine alignment problem that caused the failure then they will need to address that. I will be curious to hear why the bearing failed.

Dave

 

[dsteele1]

It's probably not necessary unless the dealer suspects you have a water leak in the bellows in which case they ought to replace the bellows under warranty as well. Let them pull the drive and figure out why the gimbal bearing went bad. If it was water intrusion they should know what to replace on the outdrive if you had a leak. If it was an engine alignment problem that caused the failure then they will need to address that. I will be curious to hear why the bearing failed.

Dave

or if it failed...

Bummed I can't pull the boat out and do this stuff myself. I have the technical expertise but not the experience and correct tools and also I don't have a trailer or vehicle powerful enough to pull her around even if I did have a trailer. :smt089

I'm really not sure if it is the gimbal bearing as it could be a normal prop - cavitation sound. She makes the growling sound when the boat is trimmed and level IF the drive is trimmed down too far (trim it out to about 40-50% and the prop purrs) and when I make tight 25MPH turns (straighten her back out and she sounds normal). :huh:

My inner transom plate nut, washer and stud (one connected to the grounding wire and mercathode wire) corrosion problem is weirding me out as I don't know if it's just those parts that are corroded or there is water intrusion into the entire gimbal housing. :smt101

Hope the extended warranty comes through for me on most of this stuff otherwise I'm looking at over 2 grand for everything on my list :wow: :wow: :wow:

Welcome to boating!

 

[Henry Boyd]

Don,

The bellows parts are not overly expensive. When we had our gimbal bearing done this spring I had all the bellows replaced. But we had five years on them. May not be necessary, but you have two years on yours already (figure a life of about five) and labor is the big cost. I'd say unless they are completely perfect, spend the extra and have them done.

Henry

 

[fwebster]

Gimble bearings don't just up and fail. They fail because they have been neglected and not lubricated or because water has gotten to them and that usually happens because a bellow is leaking thru a crack or hole or because they are not properly sealed.

If your dealer diagnosed a failed gimble bearing, I'm betting they will replace the bellows. This is, however, a good point to question them on now, before they get the boat back together. The questions is : "With only X hours on the boat, can you tell why the gimble bearing failed?" Then just listen. You should hear a reason and a clear diagnosis. However, if you hear an "I dunno" or "Sometimes they just get noisy" then look at the bearing and look for pitting. If you see pitting on the rollers it is a sure sign of water damage and corrosion..as well as a call for more questions.

 

[Henry Boyd]

I didn't think of it at the time, but the bearing and u-joint had a coating of greasy rust on them. At the time I attributed that to being normal for a five year old boat. Am I correct in now believing that a common cause of gimbal bearing failure is the result of bellows failure?

 

[fwebster]

No, I just edited my first post to add a statement about neglecting the gimble bearing and service. The bearing needs lubrication which is usually done at the time you service your outdrive. Neglect to service the drive or fail to find and use the grease fitting for the gimble bearing and you can have one fail.

Sorry for the omission...........

 

[Dave S]

Don

After reading your reply to my posting I am wondering if you even have a problem. Some transmission of noise (to use your term "growling") is pretty common on my 260DA. On mine I could say I have a similar growling noise but as soon as I find the "sweet spot" trimming the outdrive when comming up on plane the noise or vibration goes away. My 240SD with a Bravo 3 used to do the same thing but to a much lesser extent. If you don't get it trimmed properly while underway at planing speeds, the vibrations you feel and hear are comming thru the hull (or at least that's my experience) and can easily be interpreted as "growling". To use your term, mine will growl if the drive is trimmed too low or too high. And if you get vibrations or noises when making sharp turns, that could be normal as well because you have the u-joints at a severe angle.

I never had a gimbal bearing fail but I would think when they start to go bad the noise would be there whether you were at idle or underway with the pitch changing as the rpms come up. I would also think the noise wouldn't go away no matter how you trimmed your outdrive.

 

[douglee25]

Just out of curiosity, how does Sea Ray recommend greasing the gimbal bearing? Drive removed?

Doug

 

[fwebster]

Grease fitting on the gimble housing.

 

[douglee25]

Grease fitting on the gimble housing.

No no, I mean do they recommend removing the outdrive then greasing, or is the bearing able to be greased with the drive on? Some I've seen run the motor on the hose while pumping grease into the bearing.

Doug

 

[SR Tech]

Grease fitting on the gimble housing.

There is no other way to grease the bearing. That grease zerk is routed to the only entrance to the inside of the cage of the bearing.

I suppose you could grease it while it is out, but that just makes a mess.

I'd go ahead a get the bellows replaced while your in there, or else its gonna be another labor charge to remove the drive/bellhousing once the bellows go.

Water intrusion is the most common cause of bearing failure, and sunk boats:grin:

 

[douglee25]

There is no other way to grease the bearing. That grease zerk is routed to the only entrance to the inside of the cage of the bearing.

I suppose you could grease it while it is out, but that just makes a mess.

I'd go ahead a get the bellows replaced while your in there, or else its gonna be another labor charge to remove the drive/bellhousing once the bellows go.

Water intrusion is the most common cause of bearing failure, and sunk boats:grin:

The reason why I ask is because I've seen in Volvo's recommendations that they call for the greasing to be done while the drive was off. That's why I questioned what Merc called for.

Doug

 

[jellyfish]

It’s recommended that the drive be pulled on a yearly basis to inspect the bellow, check alignment and grease the U-joints. The process is not very difficult, but you may need a hand with the BIII unit. I do this myself every 12~18 months. You will need the alignment tool (maybe +/- $80 in e-bay)

You also will need to replace all the o-rings, merc has a Bravo install kit with all the O-rings needed to re-install the drive. This o-ring kit is +/-$10.

 

[dsteele1]

Need your help on this one - I was most happy to see this. :wow::smt101:smt089

I can't even believe what I am seeing... it looks like the whole center lowest part of the transom was melted or corroded by something. :smt013 :smt009 OR IS THIS NORMAL SEA RAY MFG?????? What's that green ground wire connected too? P.S. I blew up the telephoto and now see the drain plug and links to the oil drain line - maybe this IS a normal bilge-transom area. What crap workmanship!

Let me go through this process:

First I take a whole ^%@)&^$ load of pictures of the engine just to get to know the engine. Realize: This is my first 2 year old boat! I've driven and worked on 40 HP Merc outboards in the 60's and 70's but this is my dream!

Pic #1 Are the splines supposed to be showing this much?

Pic #2 This what started my service call: Tech was as perplexed as I was. He visually checked the transom area for leaks - none found. Maybe just a rusted SS nut (why aren't the others like this I'm thinking???)

Note: Other problems noted to tech:

Difficult shifting: Tech disconnected the rear cable to outdrive at the engine and I tested throttle / shift cables with the throttle - moved like butter. Tech: Need to pull drive and replace the rear shift cable.

Rear battery was always low on fluid; filled then two weeks later below top of plates. Yes, Charger is left on while I'm away and on the hook. I don't see boat for sometimes two weeks or more and it's an hour away in a slip.

Bilge is bone dry now and when tech checked it. After boating 1/2" of water in bilge (bilge pump pumps out what it can and some rushes back down tube).

Today I just replaced the original Interstate Batteries with Optimas. When hooking up the negative cable on the rear battery a spark happened. The front battery had no spark when I attached the negative lead. I cleaned the connectors completely before attaching any of the leads. (Positive first then negative for safety).

I took some more detailed pics today and stuck my camera where no one could possible see - the lowest rear bilge area of the hull, exhaust and inner transom plate. LOOK WHAT I FOUND! DO I NEED TO GET THE BOAT OUT OF THE WATER LIKE NOW RIGHT :wow::wow::wow::wow: OR IS THIS A NORMAL TRANSOM HULL?????

Needless to say I'm freaking out about this! I think the only reason my boat is not at the bottom of the lake is the corrosion or melting has cauterized (sealed) the whole area but when I take her out on the lake it opens up slightly and my bilge fills up, pump does its job and then dry out over two weeks of sitting. OR I'm totally nuts and this is NORMAL Sea Ray Mfg at it's best!!!!

Dave S: Could you possibly take a picture of your bilge transom area as you have the same boat. I'd like to see what it's supposed to look like. Thanks! :grin:

Anybody (SRTech???) see anything like this before. :wow::wow::wow: :smt089

Thanks for your help and input!

 

[douglee25]

I'm not quite sure what we're looking at that is causing you to think something is wrong. Unless I'm looking at it incorrectly, it appears as though trash may have ended up towards the rear of the bilge. Can you pull the crap out? I believe ground wire goes to the female portion of the drain plug.

Doug

 

[dsteele1]

I'm not quite sure what we're looking at that is causing you to think something is wrong. Unless I'm looking at it incorrectly, it appears as though trash may have ended up towards the rear of the bilge. Can you pull the crap out? I believe ground wire goes to the female portion of the drain plug.

Doug

So the gouged out crevice where the drain plug and ground wire are IS normal Sea Ray construction???? It looks like a third grader carved it out with a butter knife. Not very classy looking - why not a smooth angled transom on the inside. I guess I expected more in the looks department. It looks so shody... do the splines look correctly seated in the engine?

 

[techmitch]

splines look ok, as for the crevice as you called it, not sure so you should clean it out (an old toilet brush and some good bilge cleaner works well) and then post some more pics so we can better assess the situation

 

[dsteele1]

Don

After reading your reply to my posting I am wondering if you even have a problem. Some transmission of noise (to use your term "growling") is pretty common on my 260DA. On mine I could say I have a similar growling noise but as soon as I find the "sweet spot" trimming the outdrive when comming up on plane the noise or vibration goes away. My 240SD with a Bravo 3 used to do the same thing but to a much lesser extent. If you don't get it trimmed properly while underway at planing speeds, the vibrations you feel and hear are comming thru the hull (or at least that's my experience) and can easily be interpreted as "growling". To use your term, mine will growl if the drive is trimmed too low or too high. And if you get vibrations or noises when making sharp turns, that could be normal as well because you have the u-joints at a severe angle.

I never had a gimbal bearing fail but I would think when they start to go bad the noise would be there whether you were at idle or underway with the pitch changing as the rpms come up. I would also think the noise wouldn't go away no matter how you trimmed your outdrive.

I have to agree with you, Dave

In my experience with bearings of all types and machines they make a whining sound that increases in pitch or loudness as the RPM's increase. This does seem to be the case. The tech needs to replace the engine to outdrive shift cable so he has to go in there anyway. I'm going to have him look at and probably replace the gimbal bearing and all bellows so I don't have to be charged a haul out fee of $330.

 

[dsteele1]

splines look ok, as for the crevice as you called it, not sure so you should clean it out (an old toilet brush and some good bilge cleaner works well) and then post some more pics so we can better assess the situation

Thanks for the response> So the crevice is just a Sea Ray molder carving away at the inner hull then gel coating it. :smt021 That's why it looks like it was eating up by battery acid or melted with a blow torch - just LOOKS that way "cause ya ain't gonna see it". I get it now... :smt043