- Oct 6, 2006
- 12,155
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA
- Engines
- 3116 Caterpillars
It took me a while find my last post re: portable generators. Actually, Monaco Mike quoted it in another thread in Dec, 2018:
Dec 1, 2018#2
MonacoMikeWell-Known MemberPLATINUM Sponsor
11,092
Sep 15, 2009
Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
2000 Cruisers 3870
8.2 Mercs
85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
260hp Alpha 1
_________________________________________________________
Quote:
"Rob, you just asked the most contentious question that can be asked on this forum. This issue has been asked and fought over so many times, frankly most of us are sick of it.
My belief is no, it is not safe enough to risk my family, others accept those risks and use a portable generator onboard. The choice is yours. I will post a well written risk assessment by our most knowledgeable member, Frank Webster.
MM
By fwebster,
I swore I was not going to participate in another discussion on this, but I cannot let with go with only 1/4 the caution needed. The risks are far more than just CO:
Carbon Monoxide
Is simple to grasp, breathe it in a confined space and you don’t wake up. Permanently mounted marine generators have their exhausts plumbed to exit at or very near the waterline and away from closed occupied spaces.
Uncontained Fuel System Vents
The fuel systems on Honda and other portable generators are vented to the atmosphere and their carburetors have a bowl drain that releases fuel inside the generator case. That means where you run it, store it or put it under way will/can have gasoline fumes released in the area, unbeknownst to you and if the bowl drain leaks, you have raw fuel spilled and an explosive liquid in the compartment with the generator.
Lack of ignition protection on electrical devices
The electrical components on portables are not ignition protected like marine generator electrical components are. This means you could easily have an arc or spark anytime a contact opens or closes or whenever something is plugged in or disconnected.
Lack of Continuous Grounding
Portable generators pose an additional shock hazard since the portable is not grounded to the boat or to a shore side ground. Likely not a problem with a drill or power tool, but if you connect a portable generator to your boat's AC system, you have essentially disconnected the green wire.
The Honda iU series generators are invertors. An inverter drives both line and neutral so it is possible to have voltage between neutral and ground. With the ground bonded the the boat's bonding system, which means to the water, this means a shock hazard may exist that normally would not.
Anyone who ignores all the above risks and insists on using a portable generator should use a very good, sensitive multi-meter to throughly prove out the electrical system. That the reverse polarity light is lit is clear indication of a potential problem.
The USCG governs only boat manufacturers and the manufacturers voluntarily subscribe to ABYC guidelines, so there is no "law" against using portable generators on boats. However, both the USCG and ABYC say using portable generators on boat is a bad idea and regularly caution boaters against it.
In spite of the fact that Honda’s advertising says that boating is a popular use of their generators, They have not addressed the grounding, gas fume or ignition protection issues and those risks do indeed exist.
If you are one of those who jumped on the CO train and think the relatively few deaths attributed to CO makes portables safe, you are not fully considering all the risks of using portable generators. While accidents may be rare, you do substantially increase your risk of becoming a "statistic" when using a portable generator on a boat.......you put your family unnecessarily at risk when you do.
If you want to test my superficial risk theory, try this: Tell your wife you are buying a portable generator for the boat because it is cheaper and you don’t think the risk of your family not waking up one day was sufficient to require spending the extra money for a properly installed marine generator. Also tell her you didn’t bother to consider anything but CO and that you are ignoring the risks of fire, shock and explosion to your wife and kids.
Let us know how the dog house sleeps……………
Frank
Dec 1, 2018#2
MonacoMikeWell-Known MemberPLATINUM Sponsor
11,092
Sep 15, 2009
Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
2000 Cruisers 3870
8.2 Mercs
85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
260hp Alpha 1
_________________________________________________________
Quote:
"Rob, you just asked the most contentious question that can be asked on this forum. This issue has been asked and fought over so many times, frankly most of us are sick of it.
My belief is no, it is not safe enough to risk my family, others accept those risks and use a portable generator onboard. The choice is yours. I will post a well written risk assessment by our most knowledgeable member, Frank Webster.
MM
By fwebster,
I swore I was not going to participate in another discussion on this, but I cannot let with go with only 1/4 the caution needed. The risks are far more than just CO:
Carbon Monoxide
Is simple to grasp, breathe it in a confined space and you don’t wake up. Permanently mounted marine generators have their exhausts plumbed to exit at or very near the waterline and away from closed occupied spaces.
Uncontained Fuel System Vents
The fuel systems on Honda and other portable generators are vented to the atmosphere and their carburetors have a bowl drain that releases fuel inside the generator case. That means where you run it, store it or put it under way will/can have gasoline fumes released in the area, unbeknownst to you and if the bowl drain leaks, you have raw fuel spilled and an explosive liquid in the compartment with the generator.
Lack of ignition protection on electrical devices
The electrical components on portables are not ignition protected like marine generator electrical components are. This means you could easily have an arc or spark anytime a contact opens or closes or whenever something is plugged in or disconnected.
Lack of Continuous Grounding
Portable generators pose an additional shock hazard since the portable is not grounded to the boat or to a shore side ground. Likely not a problem with a drill or power tool, but if you connect a portable generator to your boat's AC system, you have essentially disconnected the green wire.
The Honda iU series generators are invertors. An inverter drives both line and neutral so it is possible to have voltage between neutral and ground. With the ground bonded the the boat's bonding system, which means to the water, this means a shock hazard may exist that normally would not.
Anyone who ignores all the above risks and insists on using a portable generator should use a very good, sensitive multi-meter to throughly prove out the electrical system. That the reverse polarity light is lit is clear indication of a potential problem.
The USCG governs only boat manufacturers and the manufacturers voluntarily subscribe to ABYC guidelines, so there is no "law" against using portable generators on boats. However, both the USCG and ABYC say using portable generators on boat is a bad idea and regularly caution boaters against it.
In spite of the fact that Honda’s advertising says that boating is a popular use of their generators, They have not addressed the grounding, gas fume or ignition protection issues and those risks do indeed exist.
If you are one of those who jumped on the CO train and think the relatively few deaths attributed to CO makes portables safe, you are not fully considering all the risks of using portable generators. While accidents may be rare, you do substantially increase your risk of becoming a "statistic" when using a portable generator on a boat.......you put your family unnecessarily at risk when you do.
If you want to test my superficial risk theory, try this: Tell your wife you are buying a portable generator for the boat because it is cheaper and you don’t think the risk of your family not waking up one day was sufficient to require spending the extra money for a properly installed marine generator. Also tell her you didn’t bother to consider anything but CO and that you are ignoring the risks of fire, shock and explosion to your wife and kids.
Let us know how the dog house sleeps……………
Frank
