Starter Anxiety 7.4 MPI

[J Levine]

I am not surprised to learn that GM is killing the 8.1L big block. It has already been dropped from the 3/4 and 1 ton pickup's and the 3/4 ton suburban when the new GMT900 platform came out in 2007. I think the only place is was being used in the GM product line was the Top Kick medium duty trucks. After that I bet Mercury and Crusader where probably the next bigest customers and that business is probably just about dead right now. Looks to me like the 6.2 with the supercharger is GM's answer to fill the void the loss of the 8.1 will leave. It appears to me that this engine is based off the 6.2L normally aspirated motor that is the standard (and only) engine in the 2007-2009 Cadillac Esclade and GMC Denali. The same motor has been offered for 2009 as an option in the Chevy Tahoe and Siera. This motor makes 403 horse in these vehicles and as the owner of 08 Denali I can tell you it is a real hot rod, even sounds like a rat motor in a Sea Ray when it is idleing.

 

[jitts3]

If you look at GMs hostory they always killed a good thing for the next dud.
Just hope this isn't one.

 

[rondds]

Steve, you're getting desperate!

 

[jitts3]

Steve, you're getting desperate!

I Know

 

[fwebster]

Mercruiser has tried aluminum inboards before with dismal results becasue they are not heat tolerant. Overheat one time and you are buying an engine due to warped surfaces all over the motor.

I'm guessing that Mercruiser will partner with Cummins or Yanmar on a 300-350 hp diesel for the big block replacement.

 

[jitts3]

Mercruiser has tried aluminum inboards before with dismal results becasue they are not heat tolerant. Overheat one time and you are buying an engine due to warped surfaces all over the motor.

I'm guessing that Mercruiser will partner with Cummins or Yanmar on a 300-350 hp diesel for the big block replacement.

This is why I never liked aluminum engine parts. I have a 94 Eldorado with the aluminum Northstar.

Powerfull, yet pricey to rebuild. To be honest wuth you I never even liked aluminum heads.

 

[fc3]

Mercruiser has tried aluminum inboards before with dismal results becasue they are not heat tolerant. Overheat one time and you are buying an engine due to warped surfaces all over the motor.

I'm guessing that Mercruiser will partner with Cummins or Yanmar on a 300-350 hp diesel for the big block replacement.

The Cadillac Northstar is all aluminum and has a no-coolant failsafe mode. It works very well, but at greatly reduced power. It's very dependent upon GM's electronic engine controls. Don't know if the LSA and LST engines provide that capability or if MEFI-5 does. I'm damn sure Mercury would screw-up the programming for that for the first half dozen years of production since they need to use their closed, proprietary system. Which is too bad; MEFI-5 supports good old J1939, which can easily be gatewayed to NMEA-2000.

Best regards,
Frank

 

[rondds]

Which is too bad; MEFI-5 support good ol J1939, which can easily be gatewayed to NMEA-2000.

 

[fc3]

OK, so shoot me. I forgot an s and a d.
I fixed it. Hope you're happy.

 

[rondds]

Even with the S and the D, I have no clue what you're talking about, thus Beavis and Butthead's blank stares. :grin:

 

[sprink56]

Even with the S and the D, I have no clue what you're talking about, thus Beavis and Butthead's blank stares. :grin:

I attended a seminar once discussing ..........

"The motion of the Spontaneous Overflow"

I think that Hazen-Williams vs. Darcy Weissbach was one of the topics. It made for interesting banter over wine and cheese afterward. :thumbsup:

Any way...the boat starts now.

 

[fc3]

Sigh

OK, I'll try again so that even the wingless dog toy can understand it.

MEFI-5 supports good old J1939, which can easily be gatewayed to NMEA-2000.

MEFI-5 is General Motor's fifth generation electronic engine control module. The module has the ability to interact with other electronic devices over a standard networking protocol defined by the Society of Automotive Engineers. That protocol, defined by the SAE code J1939, is widely implemented in automotive and truck systems. J1939 is a protocol that runs on the standard CANBus architecture, originally designed by Bosch in the early 1980s. The CANbus standard is an SAE and ISO standard. J1939 is a higher level protocol over the standard CAN implementation. A higher level on J1939 is NMEA-2000. NMEA-2000 is the latest marine electronic networking protocol. It specifies not only the wiring and connection types, but also the messages that are passed over the network. A gateway is a device that connects different networks and different network protocols so that they can share data.

Simple!

Having an engine processor that speaks and hears the same protocol as the other electronics on the boat allow those systems to interact. For example the chart plotter show RPM, fuel burn rate, engine temperature and other data. The chartplotter could also work in concert with the autopilot. When it recognizes a no wake zone, the AP could display a message that when acknowledged by the helmsman, signals the engine controller to reduce power, and adjust trim. Or the system could automatically apply differential power, such as running the outside engine a few hundred rpm higher than the inside engine, to tighten a turning radius when the helm is turned hard over. The chartplotter could also be used to display engine fault codes and diagnostics. They system could also automatically manage RPM and other engine parameters, heading, trim, speed, etc to optimize cruise for best economy, best ride, etc based on current sea state.

Just a couple of wild ideas off the top of my head.

But you can't do that with a Mercury, and therefore a SeaRay, because the bastards implemented a proprietary system and third party developers and product manufacturers are not welcome to play in their sandbox. If you compare what you can do with proprietary systems (think IBM mainframes) versus open systems (think all the open source stuff on the Internet, including the 'net itself) you get the idea.


Best regards,
Frank

 

[mwph]

Great post Frank.
As always, thanks for taking the time.

 

[sprink56]

Frank,

Thanks for the explanation.

The entrepreneur side of me now thinks...Hmmm, what if we could come up with a "Black Box" that would universally interpret all of these random inputs into any output language that we desired...and we could select the output language based upon any input language. Then it would matter little what proprietary language that Brunswick, GM or whoever came up with because we could randomly interpret it automatically.

What say you....make sense?:thumbsup:

 

[rondds]

Frank, you're a PEACH!

 

[mistercomputerman]

I attended a seminar once discussing ..........

"The motion of the Spontaneous Overflow"

I think that Hazen-Williams vs. Darcy Weissbach was one of the topics. It made for interesting banter over wine and cheese afterward. :thumbsup:

Any way...the boat starts now.

What was the problem and what was the fix?

 

[rondds]

Rick, I have to say once this thing turned from a starter problem, I was lost. I think I need to unsubscribe to this one ;-)

 

[fc3]

Frank,

Thanks for the explanation.

The entrepreneur side of me now thinks...Hmmm, what if we could come up with a "Black Box" that would universally interpret all of these random inputs into any output language that we desired...and we could select the output language based upon any input language. Then it would matter little what proprietary language that Brunswick, GM or whoever came up with because we could randomly interpret it automatically.

What say you....make sense?:thumbsup:

Yes, but someone has to first eavesdrop on a smartcrap network to learn that language. Then he has to build a translator, which is called a gateway. Then he probably needs to hire a team of attorneys to fend off Mercury's dogs.

Best regards,
Frank

 

[Hampton]

What was the problem and what was the fix?

I'm having the same problem. I thought it was the transmission neutral switch, but now I don't think so. Maybe a flat spot?

Just found a post from Frank W saying to replace the starter slave solenoid, so I will.

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

Had a similar problem and found the fix at the beginning of the summer. The large ground wire post on the engine block was corroded enough to provide an inadequate ground.

If you're still having intermitent problems starting, just take all the grounds off, clean them and the post, coat with dielectric grease and re-install.

Mine was always like playing Russian Roulette with every start, but since this fix - not one problem!:thumbsup: