ZF Transmission oil change??

[jetlag]

I have an '07 44SB with Cummins 500QSC's and ZF280-1a transmissions. I change my engine and genset oil, filters, and fuel filters with no problem but I haven't tackled my transmission fluid yet. My book says to remove the drain plug which doesn't seem to leave room for a drain pan of any sort. On a brand X boat I previously owned I was able to siphon the fluid from the fill port. Any suggestions here? I would certainly appreciate any help.
Sincerely,
JetLag

 

[carterchapman]

JetLag,

My transmissions are ZF 63 IVs, so this may not be of any help to you.

I use my Jabsco oil pump to suck out 4 qts of fluid out the fill port. Then when I pull my filter out, I suck out what may remain there. It seems to get almost all of the 4 1/2 qt capacity out.

 

[fwebster]

Use a portable pump and pump the old fluid out thru the dipstick hole, which is suggested in the ZF manual.........I think the access is big enough for a 5/8 hose.

I have made a drain pan by cutting the bottom few inches off of an old plastic gas can. I used it once but it was hards to avoid spills so I then had some hydraulic hoses made to insert into the drain hole in the bottom of the gear case. The drain plug fitting is usually 1/2" NPT threads.

 

[osd9]

I posted this in a different thread a few months back...

OK...here's a quick heads up....and it almost got me....but then again, the older I get, that doesn't take much anymore these days.

Yesterday, I changed the ATF in my ZF Hurth 80-IVs. I did purchase a set of new filters. I got them online for about $35 each. I just wanted to be able to swap out with the new filters so that I could continue on with the fluid change and then I could clean out the old filters later on in the garage....I do the same thing with my pool filters....it's just a personal choice and it saves some time.

I started with the port trans. I opened the filter housing on the trans housing with a 6 mm allen wrench....

....and I put the dirty filter off to the side to be cleaned later in the garage.....

...here's what the filter 'plug' looks like....

...and again the plug broken apart.....

.....I then sucked out the old ATF through the filter tube....

.....the spec calls for 7.4 qts and after all was said and done, I got out 7qts from each side.

I refilled the port tranny with 6 qts at first (I checked and topped it off both sides later) and then closed everything up and went off to do the same procedure on the stbd trans.

Back tracking a bit.....when I opened the box to get out the new filter for port side, I saw one small O-Ring in the box. Inside the filter housing on the trans, there is a small O-ring at the base of the filter's tube, and I assumed that the O-ring was for that. I decided not to bother changing it out...quite honestly, out of laziness. Fast forwad back to the stbd side. When I opened the box for that new filter there, I saw the same small O-ring in the box and I just put it off to the side. BUT....and here's the heads up part......this time, out of pure luck, out of the corner of my eye, when I went to install the new filter in the stbd trans, I noticed something 'INSIDE' the new filter. Damn....it was a Large O-ring. What the hell was that for. Almost immediately the bells and whistles went off in my head......I f'd up...nothing too unusual anymore these days. Apparently, the new filter comes with two new O-rings....for these....

...but the bastards hide the big O-ring inside the new filter. Don't ask me why they do that and/or why they don't include a third new O-ring for the base of the filter's tube.

So, I had to go back in and open up the port filter housing and sure as hell....there was that big O-ring still stuck inside the filter. I guess that could have restricted fluid flow and led to some kind of 'bad' thing.

Here's one more pic with the tube inserted into the trans filter area sucking out the old fluid....

 

[CIC25]

Just what Frank said, Great write up. I use Mobli One Syn trany fluid in mine.

 

[bmac]

I have an '07 44SB with Cummins 500QSC's and ZF280-1a transmissions. I change my engine and genset oil, filters, and fuel filters with no problem but I haven't tackled my transmission fluid yet. My book says to remove the drain plug which doesn't seem to leave room for a drain pan of any sort. On a brand X boat I previously owned I was able to siphon the fluid from the fill port. Any suggestions here? I would certainly appreciate any help.
Sincerely,
JetLag

I siphon my tranny oil from the fill port and refill with Rotella 30W. On my previous V Drive trannys I did the same (except refill w ATF), however, with this straight drive I have not been able to locate a filter :huh:. Any luck on yours JetLag?

 

[jetlag]

Hey BMAC,

I have not identified it for certain but there is a large plug to the aft port side of each transmission. I believe that is the presuction screen they discuss in the manual. The recommendation is to clean it after the first 50 hours and then annually or 1000 hours after that. Notice however that the one on the std trans is impossible to remove without lifting the gearbox. I definitely want to change the fluid so I will siphon it out and then work on the screen. Note that in the manual they don't call it a filter but a screen. If all else fails I hope to find out some info from my Marine Max service guy. Thanks for your help, Jetlag

 

[bmac]

Hey BMAC,

I have not identified it for certain but there is a large plug to the aft port side of each transmission. I believe that is the presuction screen they discuss in the manual. The recommendation is to clean it after the first 50 hours and then annually or 1000 hours after that. Notice however that the one on the std trans is impossible to remove without lifting the gearbox. I definitely want to change the fluid so I will siphon it out and then work on the screen. Note that in the manual they don't call it a filter but a screen. If all else fails I hope to find out some info from my Marine Max service guy. Thanks for your help, Jetlag

Thanks for the ID on the plug. I thought that might be it but it's different than what I'm used to seeing on my other ZF drives so I haven't touched it. I do all my own routine maintenance ever since MM service told me the trannys on my 40DA didn't have filters :smt021. Odd that the manual isn't more clear on this.

 

[fwebster]

Here is the parts breakdown for your transmission:

http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/zf_sch_fs.html

Select "ZF-280", then "ZF280.6225 completo.pdf"....it takes a while to down load....then go to Section 6.5, page 6.142

The suction filter is located just below the pump mounting bracket.

 

[tobnpr]

Why do some trannies use ATF, and others motor oil?

 

[PartnerShip]

ATF is for high RPM use and SAE 30 for low.

 

[fwebster]

It has to do with the design of the transmission and its pump and internal hydraulic system. Engine RPM doesn't have anything to do with it.

 

[bmac]

Here is the parts breakdown for your transmission:

http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/zf_sch_fs.html

Select "ZF-280", then "ZF280.6225 completo.pdf"....it takes a while to down load....then go to Section 6.5, page 6.142

The suction filter is located just below the pump mounting bracket.

Thanks, Frank, that drawing is very clear as is the parts list. I take it I would inspect then clean the filter elements with mineral spirits just like those on my other ZF units?

 

[jetlag]

Thanks to all for the great help. Pictures are worth a ton. BMAC, the link from Frank is great and spot on. Take a look as it will give you confidence in identifying the plug and suction screen. Thanks again,
Frank S.
Jetlag

 

[dpmulvey]

Does anyone know if a like manual is available for the Velvet Drive 5000 V drives? I can't find one anywhere to include the manufacturer site. The main thing I am looking for is how to change the fluid and any preventative maintenance aside from checking the fluid.

TIA.

 

[jetlag]

I don't know if any of you subscribe ($25/year) to Boatdiesel.com but it is a great forum with a ton of dedicated professionals weighing in on all boat related issues. I submitted my questions about the ZF's and was told to not worry about the suction screen because it is basically a rock catcher. One guy suggested that I use the port screen (easy to remove) as a guide to the starboard's condition. It was suggested that I add an inline filter as well. At any rate, it is not specific to SeaRay but many of the manufacturers which build items for our boats are represented there. I suggest everyone to take a look. It's free until you want to dig deeper or pose a question. Well worth it as far as I'm concerned. In the meanwhile, thanks to everyone for their help on this forum. This is my 5th new boat over 35 feet in length and, by far, my favorite. SeaRay owners are the best.

 

[Jaws]

I agree with your positive comments regarding Boatdiesel.com but unless you join you cannot access the full discussions or view the technical photos. They are a serious bunch over there. BTW, I did follow your question and the responses on that site because I'm having a heck of a time trying to open up my screen on the port tranny (V-drives).

 

[fwebster]

Guys.....using one transmission screen as a guide to the other's condition is a dangerous practice. Most transmissions run in opposite directions and, therefore, have different thrust loads at different places which causes different wear patterns as well as the fact that the clutches can wear differently.

One popularly used v-drive in Sea Ray boats has a propensity for the port transmission failing early, even though the port and starboard transmissions are the same. If you gauged your wear by the clean side you would completely miss all the accumulated trash and wear metal in the failing side. Miss seeing the metal particles from a failing bearing, gear or shaft and you could end up with a destroyed transmission at a bad time (100 miles off shore?) Catch it early and you have advance knowledge thus allowing you to either head off a major failure with a repair or at least schedule removing the bad transmission on your time table.

There is a reason that gear makers recommend servicing the filters or screens. My advice is to do them both so you know what is going on.........even if the experts on another forum tell you a short-cut is ok.

 

[bmac]

Guys.....using one transmission screen as a guide to the other's condition is a dangerous practice. Most transmissions run in opposite directions and, therefore, have different thrust loads at different places which causes different wear patterns as well as the fact that the clutches can wear differently.

One popularly used v-drive in Sea Ray boats has a propensity for the port transmission failing early, even though the port and starboard transmissions are the same. If you gauged your wear by the clean side you would completely miss all the accumulated trash and wear metal in the failing side. Miss seeing the metal particles from a failing bearing, gear or shaft and you could end up with a destroyed transmission at a bad time (100 miles off shore?) Catch it early and you have advance knowledge thus allowing you to either head off a major failure with a repair or at least schedule removing the bad transmission on your time table.

There is a reason that gear makers recommend servicing the filters or screens. My advice is to do them both so you know what is going on.........even if the experts on another forum tell you a short-cut is ok.

Frank, what's your thoughts on cleaning the filters with mineral spirits versus replacing with new, assuming the filter element isn't crushed or otherwise distorted?

 

[fwebster]

Brian,

It depends upon the type filter you have. Some are designed to be washed with solvent while others are replaceable-single use filters. If the filter is an all metal housing with a metal screen would around inside, then it most likely can be washed and reused.

Your transmission operator's manual should tell you how to service the filter. If it is washable, then I wouldn't use anything harsher or more volatile than mineral spirits since we don't know what if any glue is used to assemble the filter and its media. Mine are the original screens and look as good today as they did 13 years ago..........