Batteries suck

First of all, DieHard is a problem. They used to be be the best, now they are crap.

Best lead acid these days are Duralast from auto zone.

Secondly, as a FORMER supporter of AGMs I finally switched my 7 auto / boat / tractor batteries back to lead acid. I had too many problems and short life with the AGMs. I can get 8 years out of a boat battery, WITH PROPER MAINTENANCE. Even then, I replace them just because, not because they show signs of wearing out.

My classic car battery was replaced last year after 21 years of faithful service.
 
marks737 said:
My Group 31 AGM's are going on 5yrs with no issues. I would never go back to lead acic.
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Agreed. They give more useful service charge than lead acid.

I have 3 group 31 and 2 4D AGM. Not looking forward to the day I need to replace them at 100+ lbs each. I take care of them.
 
GypsmJim said:
First of all, DieHard is a problem. They used to be be the best, now they are crap.

Best lead acid these days are Duralast from auto zone.

Secondly, as a FORMER supporter of AGMs I finally switched my 7 auto / boat / tractor batteries back to lead acid. I had too many problems and short life with the AGMs. I can get 8 years out of a boat battery, WITH PROPER MAINTENANCE. Even then, I replace them just because, not because they show signs of wearing out.

My classic car battery was replaced last year after 21 years of faithful service.
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I did buy a Duralast marine deep cycle at the beginning of last season as my "house" battery that I use at anchor. I have and Interstate cranking battery for starting. I will be interested in how long the Duralast lasts. That is all I use in cars and have been very happy.

I do not have an onboard battery charger. I can't trickle charge in the high and dry. I have a garage at my condo now so I may take them out and store them in the garage.

I tried AGM for several years and I got less life out of those so I went back to lead acid.
 
BillK2632 said:
I started buying my lead acid batteries from Walmart - I swear they last as long, maybe longer than the better name batteries.
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After an AGM failure decades ago, been doing the WALMART Group 27's in my 10 Meter. She carried 2 x27 and 1x24 for the genny.

Considered upgrading the charger and going to AGM on the 450DA, however none were available when needed due to supply chain issues.

On the 10 Meter I'd swap out at year 3 or 4, typically alternating which battery was swapped out.

Today's wet cell batteries have a different ratio of lead:antimony, the result being thay don't use as much water.

Topping off with distilled water several times a year is not really too big a deal for me (except for that genny battery)

I'm still running the factory battery charger, but plan to upgrade next year.

Two years from now, when I hit 48 months on these I'll once again do the math and see if THE DIFFERENCE in cost is worth the additional life cycle in months.

No matter what, I'm going to get some help in hoisting the old ones out and setting the new ones in next time.

BEST !

RWS
 
We were in a third world country that had solar street lights. They charged a battery in the day and ran the light at night. Problem was after a while they stopped working as the batteries were stolen. We have lead acid batteries on the boat. Ten 6 volt for house 120 volt power and four 12 volt for start. All Deep Cycle. They last 5 years. Boat is plugged in 9 months a year other 3 we are out cruising.
 
Added the Victron shunts last season and it was the best thing I've done to the boat to date. The lead acid batteries suits us just fine now that I always know their state of charge. I would say the average person, not knowing the state of their batteries and just guessing how much to put back in to them is the recipe for short battery life.
 
Irie308 said:
Added the Victron shunts last season and it was the best thing I've done to the boat to date. The lead acid batteries suits us just fine now that I always know their state of charge. I would say the average person, not knowing the state of their batteries and just guessing how much to put back in to them is the recipe for short battery life.
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VALID POINT

Today's technology of battery chargers and external monitors is so highly advanced and very different from what Fred Flintstone used, there's no comparison.

Last year I upgraded the fwd thruster's 2 lead acid batteries in the fwd stateroom floor with OPTIMA sealed AND upgraded the charger AND added an external monitor.

Based on others experience, I anticipate 7-8 years out of those in this application.

BEST !

RWS
 
I get three out of my house FLA
About five out if the start
With the original transformer battery charger
Twice year I add DISTILLED water

It has been said often that
batteries dont die they are murdered.
 
b_arrington said:
... I found that my lead acid batteries were not lasting more than 2 seasons when I was on a mooring. I believe its because they were not being regularly charged, and they are constantly self-discharging. LA batteries are toast if they get under 50% charge and last longest when they have regular float charges. Once I moved to a dock and could have a shore power to an onboard smart charger my batteries started to last way longer.
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I always use NAPA 8D's in my boat(s). I usually get ~6yrs out of them. I leave the ProNautic 1250 on 24/7. Recently I got over 7yrs out of my last set. I changed them this spring, I'll check back in another 6yrs.
 
b_arrington said:
My wife and I have been talking about this a bit lately. It feels like the current best scenario is the hybrid drivetrain. For more predictable or daily driving, EV is fine.

But for us we need to longer range of an ICE engine. For example, we drive 750 miles / 14 hours from NY Metro to TN over Thanksgiving. Needed at least 2 gas stops. Trying to do that in an EV would be really hard. Next example, I have to drive from NY Metro to central PA this weekend, 5 hours/265 miles. I could do it one way in an EV but the charge when I get there is the question. The charge time and infrastructure are still issues. If new battery tech improves for really fast charging (carbon nanotubes? graphene?) that will be huge for adoption.

The 15-20 years time horizon is certainly an issue with municipalities planning to ban ICE engines in 2030.
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Look at your driving patterns in your area when considering a hybrid. Hybrid electric motors typically run the range from 0-30 mph before switching to ICE. If the majority of your driving is highway over 30 MPH the hybrid electric motor barely functions and you will not see the advertised MPG. Around town in stop and go - they are a great choice.
 
Stee6043 said:
Don't tell @Pirate Lady that all of our satellite based services are battery powered :)
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Haha - I work in the communications (DOD) industry and I can tell you that's not 100% true, they are however all battery backed up if that's what you meant.
 
Hi all - never thought I'd be posting about my cars on a boat forum ... but wanted to share my perspective after since I have cars that fall into all 3 categories. Full disclosure here are our 3 cars:

* Audi A3 Convertible w gas "ICE" engine
* Tesla Model Y (full EV)
* Jeep Wrangler 4xe (plug in hybrid)

@Pirate Lady "While you sitting at a charging station for an hour I will be give you a ride home after I hit the pump for 5 minutes."

My experience has been the opposite of what you describe. I installed a 240v outlet in my garage (same as an electric stove outlet). We have the Tesla set to charge every night to 80% while we are sleeping. It's like waking up every morning with a near full tank of gas. I WOULD NOT CONSIDER OWNING AN EV UNLESS I COULD DO CHARGING AT HOME. That is a major difference maker in my opinion. The 5 minutes you spend at the pump once per week (works out to 4.3 hours over the course of a year) is the equivalent to me sleeping an extra 4.3 hours while my car charges at night while I'm sleeping. In the 2 years we have had the Tesla we have only needed to use the Super Chargers less than 5 times.

@Pirate Lady "I read this morning about so many people think Musk is a genius. The guy is a con artist. Fark him."

I do think that Musk has a lot of issues - and is somewhere on the spectrum. The things I will give him credit for is having the foresight to build out a reliable supercharging network - and offering free lifetime charging to early Tesla owners. This has shown to be a major difference between Tesla and other EV makers - who have to rely an crappy / difficult to use / often broken charging networks.

@Pirate Lady "YOU buy his crap, I wont."

I do partially agree with you here. Not because I think Musk is a conman - but because EV's in general are too new that I didn't want to risk buying one. I lease my Tesla - and will be able to return it to them at the end of the lease. I do think the price point of Tesla stock is not supported by business results or growth projections - so PL if you are a big Tesla shareholder - then maybe you are being conned.

@highslice "If were to ever buy an "EV" it would be a hybrid at best."

I partially agree with you. I bought neither my Tesla nor my Jeep 4xe. I am leasing them both - so that I can walk away at the end of the 3 years lease - and turn the keys (Jeep) and cards (Tesla) back to the automakers at the end. I am satisfied with both my Tesla (full EV) and Jeep 4xe (plug in hybrid). However for the Jeep 4xe I still have to do oil changes and service whereas the Tesla requires no periodic service at all. I have never had "range anxiety" in the Tesla.

@Golfman25 "I was in my friend's golf cart, I mean Tesla. It said we had 248 miles range. We went 10 miles. Ended with only 210 miles range."

I agree the range indicator isn't really that helpful as it varies too much based on how you drive as well as terrain and outdoor temperature. I pay as much attention to it as the traditional fuel gauge in my Audi - helpful to know if I'm starting to get low.

@b_arrington "For more predictable or daily driving, EV is fine." "But for us we need to longer range of an ICE engine. For example, we drive 750 miles / 14 hours from NY Metro to TN over Thanksgiving."

We don't take a ton of road trips. We have driven the Tesla to Las Vegas a couple times. When you put in your destination the navigation computer calculates where you have to stop on a road trip for charging and how long you have to be there. The Supercharges on the way to Las Vegas are all located next to restaurants - so we just stopped and grabbed some food during the 20-25 minutes it took for the car to charge up. Most of the Vegas resorts offer overnight EV car charging - so when we were ready to start our drive back we had a full charge.

@hynespa "Would you get another EV when your leases are up?"

Glad you asked that Patrick - yes - I would LEASE another EV ... but still not BUY one. Here are some more pro's and con's:

PROS
* Less expensive to lease - Prior to getting the Tesla Model Y I was leasing a VW Touareg. My lease payment decreased per month.
* Less expensive to fuel - Gas locally at the local Costco is $4.19 regular / $4.49 premium this morning. Other local gas stations are normally quite a bit higher than that. I have spent $899 this year in extra electricity costs to "fuel" my Tesla. Had I been stopping at a gas station for an equivalent car - I would have paid $2,341 in gasoline costs. So I have saved $1,442 so far in charging vs gas costs.
* Save time on fueling - Since I do home charging - I wake up with a nearly full tank of gas every morning.
* Save costs on maintenance - This applies to the Tesla ... not the Jeep. There is no routine maintenance required on the Tesla other than tire rotation/replacement.

CONS
* Insurance costs - The amount I pay to insure the Tesla is significantly higher than what I pay for my Audi or Jeep.
* Still a relatively new tech - This is why I would still only lease an EV. There are too many uncertainties around owning one long term and potentially having to go through a very expensive battery replacement down the road.
* Supercharger / Fast charger on road trips - You will have to use these on long road trips - so depending on how many you take this is a consideration. If you have a non-Tesla EV ... good luck finding one that works OK on the first try!!

MUST HAVE
* Home 240v (level 2) charging - I would not have an EV unless I was able to run a 240v Stove outlet to my garage to charge the car overnight. People who don't have dedicated overnight parking (e.g. people that live in apartments, etc) its a must different value prop - unless you can find a working fast (level 3) charger - you will be spending the hour or more at the EV charging station as PL drives by and flips you the bird (or offers you a ride home).
 
Well said @hynespa. I also own a 4xe Rubicon and my father is on his second Tesla. I don't believe they are for everyone but certainly work for the way that we use our vehicles. My daily commute is only 7 miles each way and about the only other place I consistently drive to is the marina which is 25 miles so 70-75% of my mileage is all electric. I'm sure Pirate Lady could get to any of his corner bars on the 1000-1200 miles I get out of 15 gallons of gas that lasts me two months.

We recently took the Tesla on a 600 mile road trip and supercharged twice for a whopping $20 while getting something to eat. That trip would have easily cost over $100 in my wife's SUV.
 
I aint the be all end all. If a battery car suits your lifestyle, go for it. It sure dont suit mine. and after all the problems I have had with boat batteries (original point of thread) I sure as hell aint depending on batteries for my daily transportation.
 
What are we talking about ? A battery is to start the engine , on a car as well on a boat . For this purpose its fine .

A battery will not be the 'fuel' to propulse my car or boat .
 
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