Electrical Smoke

Bill Gillespie

Bill Gillespie

Member
Apr 20, 2007
222
Danville, CA
Boat Info
2006 44 Sundancer
Engines
Cummins QS5
At 11:30 last night my wife and were watching TV when the warning light signaled reverse polarity. This is the third time in the past three weeks that we have seen this. Then all of the lights (110 and 12 Volt) started blinking, then they got very bright. Then smoke started coming from the entertainment center. I hope that nobody has ever had this problem but I am looking for ideas and some place to look. I noticed that the tvs in the master and the guest stateroom went out (locked in the on position and not able to turn them off).

I disconnected the shore power cord from the 50 amp service and will go back up today to assess the damage. While I suspect the shore power (the boat had no problems in a previous slip) I would appreciate any ideas. This is a new boat for us that we are finally finding time to spend evenings on.

Bill
 
Have your dockmaster check their shore power connections pronto! Anyone else on the marina's circuit experience the same thing?
 
I think this problem is in the boat, but ........WHAT BOAT IS IT...............?


Depending upon the year and model, some Sea Rays were factory wired incorrectly. The factory worker that wired the main panels and shore power entrances crimped clamping screws on insulation instead of the conductor in the wire. This occurred when the wires were not stripped far enough and when inserted in the fitting, the insulation was trapped under the clamping lug. If this occurs on the neutral or ground you will get a polarity problem alert and some rel screwy voltages supplied to the main panel and the components it supplies. You will also get some very hot wires.......read FIRE!..... if you don't get the problem identified and fixed.

The repair is usually rewiring the damaged, overheated wiring, plugs, etc. If this is indeed your problem, have your dealer increase the size of the wiring from the shore power entrance to the main panel while he's at it........#6 wire doesn't cost that much more than #8.
 
Hope you don't find what I did today. The stereo am/fm antenna was stuck in behind the 120 volt power panel. I could not believe it. It was just placed in there floating around right next to the main. I hope this is an after market thing.
 
Gosh Bill, that sounds both odd and serious. If I remember correctly, you have a '99 480DB. Right? It seems that any defect in wiring/ installation would have long since been discovered. Please keep us informed of your progress and good luck.
 
Frank, 99 48 DB. The electrical system is fine when I run the generator. We confirmed that the dock voltage is stable. Then we checked the plugs inside the boat and they were showing reversed polarity when hooked up to the dock voltage.

After discussion with the Marine Max parts and service gentleman, he is suspecting the transformer to which the 50 Amp shore power cord connects. His description of the symptoms associated with its failure are consistent with what happened last night. However, now we will have to replace some wiring (the burnt insulation) and at least one breaker.

Anybody heard of this transformer failing?

Bill
 
About once a year, I hear a transformer blow up. Literally.

I hear a loud "bang" from a few miles away, and then my house lights go wonky as my utility supplier does "something" to restore power. Pretty wonky. . you can see all the lights going on and off as some breaker in a substation goes into a "pop"/"reset" cycle until the matter gets resolved. Takes about 30 seconds.

Regardless, shouldn't the boats electronics protect you from something like this? Wouldn't you expect your boat breakers to pop BEFORE wire melts? Isn't that why you have breakers?

Although I see your dealer is replacing a breaker. Huh. Small wonder :)

- - - - - -

BTW: Off topic hijack: What are the implications of reversed polarity? My shore power had polarity reversed for a (negligently) long time until the (lazy) shore master (that would be me) rewired the plug.

In my case, there are no large loads on my boat, and shore power is a non-dedicated 15amp house circuit
 
I have heard of transformers failing on larger boats, however, when they fail is it usually due to an open primary winding which kills everything downstream. Failed circuit protection can cause the secondary side to fail, but it also results in a short or burned secondary winding.
 
Frank,

I think your thoughts are in line with the Marine Max fellow. The burnt wiring would produced the smoke. He will be at the boat on Wednesday (I hope) and then we will make the determination. I am sure that I will faint when I learn the Sea Ray cost of this part.

Bill
 
Seems strange that the circuit is ok while on generator power. Wouldn't the generator feed through the transformer too? It also seems odd that this is intermitent, the 3rd time it has occured...I thought when transformers, power supplies fail, they fail in an open condition versus dumping high voltage downstream.
 
Stray Cat,

I am advised (and Frank may confirm this) that the genset produces and distributes all of the AC voltages on its own and does not need the transformer to create 220 from the 110 source at the dock. The symptoms that we have been dealing with over these past three weeks are consistent with a gradual degradation of an aging part.

Fortunately, my background and training indicated disconnecting the power at the source was critical, thus I think we avoided a fire and serious damage.

There are inherent risks to buying and restoring an abused dock queen and I think we just paid our dues. And, of course, boating is boating.

Bill
 
I believe the transformer you have is a Charles Industries isolation transformer and it isn't making 220v out of 110v... You plug into the 220 v (I know.... it's really 240 v) at the dock.

If you have to replace that thing, I would look at getting one that does boost as well as isolation.... the one from Charles Industries is the same size and looks and hooks up the same but is a little more $$... Heck... why don't I sell you my used one and *I'll* get the one that does boost... hmm...
 
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I'm glad you didn't have the 4 letter "F" word every mariner fears. Good luck on Wednesday!
 
Frank or Gary:

Where is the Charles Industries isolation transformer located? I have someone looking at the boat who agress 100% with your collective assessments.

Bill
 
Bill- the iso trans is in the lazarette aft and slightly to starboard of the hatch. It's a large white metal box. The feeds from the cable master go there first and there is a large double breaker it.
 
Sorry for the slight hi-hjack - Gary, Charles just came out with a boost only unit that works with the isolation transformer. I just ordered one myself. No need to toss out what you have just to add the boost.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...
 
OK...if I may take my turn hi-jacking....why do you *need* to boost?
 
Dom, you people with little boats don't have worry about this issue. ;-)

There are lots of places that we travel where they put me at the end of a dock due to the size of my boat. Also, often the power supply at the dock is not up to snuff. At the end of the dock, it is not uncommon for the voltage to drop below 208 volts which in turn does harm to my onboard equipment. Some, like the A/C will shut itself down, but other stuff just fizzles slowly.

The boost transformer can take slightly low voltage (maybe down to 200) and increase it back up over 210 while dimishing the available amps. This means that I can keep critical equipment running without having to run the genset at the dock.
 
Bill
according to my owners manuel there is no physical connection between shore power and the the boats ac power. The transformer provides a "magnetic coupling". If your boats like ours you have 120v shore connection and a 240 shore connection.
 
According to Sea Ray, the 99 model does not have a factory isolation transformer. It does have a "standard three pole breaker system and a galvanic isolator for each line behind the main AC distribution panel". I have passed this on to the guy looking to resolve this problem. What is most frustrating is finding someone who knows how these boats are configured.

Bill
 
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