Help they say I need a new engine. 2003 Sea Ray 220

J

jayelwin

Member
May 24, 2015
66
Shrewsbury River
Boat Info
2004 Sea Ray 220 Bowrider
Engines
Mercury 5.0 250hp
So at the end of the season I bought a 2003 Sea Ray 220 with a Mercruiser 5.0L MFI and when I bought it it ran but needed a little bit of throttle to stay running. So we wintered it on the rack and put it in the water two weeks ago. It was doing the same thing - not idling and needing extra throttle to stay running. So the guy at the marina looked into it and said that two of the cylinders had no compression. He thinks it might have been run with a bad water pump and over heated. He tells me I need to put in a rebuilt engine which he says will cost me $5000 + $3000 labor = $8000 total. I got the boat for an excellent price and of course any idea that I've saved any money has evaporated. Does that sound right? I'm a captive audience at this marina unfortunately, can't get the boat to anywhere else to get a second opinion. I agree that if the engine has such bad compression on two cylinders I would want to put in a new engine rather than try to fix it. And I don't have any reason to believe he is making it up. It's just the worst case scenario when your boat won't idle.

Does $8000 sound right? I'm on the jersey shore. He's tells me he's going to try to do his best to make it as economical as possible. Maybe cut me a deal on labor.
 
I would at least pull the heads with the motor still in the boat to see if that is whats going on only if the mechanic actually put a gauge on all the cylinders . It would seem like you would be having more problems then just a low idle if you dropped two cylinders.
 
If this is a complete engine and not a short block, then the $5K is close but if its a short block, that would seem high to me. $3k seems high for labor, its about 15 hours work to remove and reinstall an engine. What is his labor rate? There are a few things you can try to help determine where the problem is located. If the compression numbers come up when oil is squirted in the 'dead' cylinders, then that would indicate bad rings, if the numbers don't change much, it would indicate valves. If the problem is rings, a new engine would be a viable option. If it just needs heads pulled and a valve job, then that would be less money, maybe. Depends on who is doing the work and how much they charge per hour.

Where in NJ are you located? Does your yard allow outside contractors to do work there or is it a closed shop operation.
Are you currently in the water? If so, I'd take the boat out and run it, maybe something will loosen up with a bit of use. Can't really hurt anything, you can still replace the engine if it came to that. JMHO
 
My last boat had little to no compression on three cylinders on one bank and it still idled fine, started easily too. It just wouldn't rev up beyond 3400 RPM which is why I did a compression test to begin with.
 
I can't imagine that you are so isolated you cannot get a mobile mechanic to come give a second opinion - if you are not mechanically experienced I certainly would want someone else to look at it before committing.
 
You can get a long block for $2200 from these guys http://www.usenginesinc.com/Marine-Engine/Mercruiser-Marine-Engine.html and I would do what they recommend....replace your motor with a 5.7. Everything would fit from your old motor to the new block and these guys are in the NE so freight would be minimal or if you have access to a pickup you could go get it. You would also have a boat with pretty good speed and performance.

The $8000 seems high to me but I am on the West Coast and maybe rates are higher there. Do you not have a trailer for the boat? It might be a better investment to find a used trailer, or even new, and take the boat somewhere that could do the work cheaper. There are a lot of CSR members in your area and I'm sure you can get several recommendations for a repair shop.

Good luck and let us know how it all shakes out.

Shawn
 
NorCal Boater said:
You can get a long block for $2200 from these guys http://www.usenginesinc.com/Marine-Engine/Mercruiser-Marine-Engine.html and I would do what they recommend....replace your motor with a 5.7. Everything would fit from your old motor to the new block and these guys are in the NE so freight would be minimal or if you have access to a pickup you could go get it. You would also have a boat with pretty good speed and performance.

The $8000 seems high to me but I am on the West Coast and maybe rates are higher there. Do you not have a trailer for the boat? It might be a better investment to find a used trailer, or even new, and take the boat somewhere that could do the work cheaper. There are a lot of CSR members in your area and I'm sure you can get several recommendations for a repair shop.

Good luck and let us know how it all shakes out.

Shawn
Click to expand...

Please research any company you might want to buy a rebuilt long block from...

I know of several real people that have bought from 1800runsnew with no complaints.
Both my new long blocks came from them, they were a pleasure to deal with.

The other company mentioned has a slew of Internet complaints and several other business names it operates under.....?
I have one friend that took a large $$$ bath from two long blocks that were questionably rebuilt and both failed with in the first few hours!
After a quick inspection ... They weren't even the the four bolt main, heavy duty blocks the seller claimed them to be....

Caveat Emptor.
 
Sorry if US Engine is not a good company. My suggestion was just meant to be an example of what might be spent to upgrade to a 5.7 or that a whole new engine may not be needed.
 
NorCal Boater said:
Sorry if US Engine is not a good company. My suggestion was just meant to be an example of what might be spent to upgrade to a 5.7 or that a whole new engine may not be needed.
Click to expand...

Just trying to look out for a fellow CSR member.

Cheers,
 
So I happen to restore vintage Japanese motorcycles as a hobby and know my way around a small engine pretty well. My 1975 CB750 will run in a similar fashion (needs more gas to idle) when operating on three cylinders.

The mechanic at the marina said he put a gauge on each cylinder when he was changing the spark plugs. One had zero compression and one had a max of 50.

It's a closed marina. I'd have to get the boat somewhere else which would be challenging if I want someone else to look at it.

The problem with using or running the boat is it will start but only with extra throttle. When you bring it back to the middle click so you can shift into gear it stalls. If the boat had a clutch I could use it (haha).
 
If your familiar with small engines this shouldn't be difficult. 0 compression suggests that you've got a valve stuck open at the very least, probably due from water ingestion but who knows.

Wouldn't take a whole lot of effort to pull the heads for a look/see. You will be able to evaluate the condition of the bores when you get the heads off and go from there.
 
scoflaw said:
If your familiar with small engines this shouldn't be difficult. 0 compression suggests that you've got a valve stuck open at the very least, probably due from water ingestion but who knows.

Wouldn't take a whole lot of effort to pull the heads for a look/see. You will be able to evaluate the condition of the bores when you get the heads off and go from there.
Click to expand...

if it's a head issue that would be a whole lot easier. I'm going to head down to the marina Tuesday and talk to Eddie the head mechanic. Maybe his conclusions are premature.
 
Does the new engine come with exhaust manifolds/risers? If leaking manifolds killed your engine you will have the cost of replacing them to add to your estimate… The last thing you want to do is risk the new engine by using your old manifolds/risers.
 
Jimmy Buoy said:
Does the new engine come with exhaust manifolds/risers? If leaking manifolds killed your engine you will have the cost of replacing them to add to your estimate… The last thing you want to do is risk the new engine by using your old manifolds/risers.
Click to expand...

Thanks. This is something I will bring up as well.

How would the exhaust manifold or risers damage the engine?
 
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When they rust through, they allow water to enter the exhaust passages and it then will flow into cylinders with open valves. It will also sit on top of closed valves and rust them as well.
I'm replacing an entire engine due to water ingestions/hydrolock. I don't think my manifolds/risers were the source but not 100% on that either. It's cheaper to replace them now rather than risk an engine.
 
So I spoke to the head mechanic and he agreed it might only be the head and valves. He's going to do a leak down test on the two bad cylinders and diagnose what's actually wrong. My fingers are crossed very tightly that I only need new heads. And of course a new exhaust manifold.

If if the two bad valves are on one side would you replace the other head?
 
pm me, I left a message. do you have a trailer ? Make sure you get a correct cost estimate .Not knowing the how or the why for the dead cylinders makes it difficult. A serious overheat would have taken out a head gasket allowing water into a cylinder. Considering you stored it and it still started and ran eliminates that possibility. Valve could have burned the seats from the quality of the fuel we use or a lean fuel condition. Unless the heads are cracked they can be rebuilt for a fraction of new heads.
 
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Yes, you should have the heads in the same condition. I am also in the midst of putting news heads on. My issue was the previous owner hid the damage of ingestion by replacing the manifolds. The damage to the heads was unbelievable! They were rotted out! I am forced to install new heads but if one side were bad, I'd still install both.

Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hifirush said:
Yes, you should have the heads in the same condition. I am also in the midst of putting news heads on. My issue was the previous owner hid the damage of ingestion by replacing the manifolds. The damage to the heads was unbelievable! They were rotted out! I am forced to install new heads but if one side were bad, I'd still install both.

Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks. I was thinking if I go through the trouble of getting one new head on I might as well spend the $500+labor for the other head.

Of course lets all say a little prayer that it is the heads and not the block.
 
Funny, this sounds like the same exact symptom of a bad IAC. If you have any doubt they really checked the compression, it is something to consider.
 
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