Hi pressure fuel pump leak

[USMC(ret)]

So as yall may have seen, I recently bought my boat in Dec & motored her up the FL gulf coast to her new home in AL. No big issues on the trip, Ive had her out once each month so far & the engines have less than 400h TSOH.

The last outing (2 weeks ago), the seawater pump froze & broke the belt. No big deal as it happened as I was going from the fuel slip to park overnight.

Today, I called the service manager & was informed there was 30gal of fuel in my bilge (I keep it in dry stack) from a leaking high pressure fuel pump. He went on to tell me the hatch & engine will have to pulled to get to it & the bilge pumps & transducer will have to be replaced.

Holy crap!

I’m of the mindset that if you can get away without pulling apart things that have no issues, you don’t invite issues that may be induced by putting things back together. I also agree that it’s tight in there & it’s a requirement for a tech to be a contortionist to complete certain tasks.

I was quoted $3k in labor & I assume that includes the service I asked for & repair of the original gripe. My question to those that have been in this game longer than me is: is pulling the engine really necessary? And has anyone else experienced a leaking fuel pump before?

Thanks in advance. Pics of the last outing:

 

[boatrboy]

First off, consider yourself lucky as those pictures show us a grill only a few feet where fuel was collecting. Obviously someone was watching over you and your children.

My bilge pumps turn on and while I never measure exactly how much is left after they are done, it’s nowhere near 30 gallons. I wonder why did your bilge pumps not turn on and spray the contents (in this case gas, not water) all over the floor on the rack?
If in fact gas was in the 30 gallon amount, I would guess the bilge pumps aren’t working and need to be replaced. That might mean the sensor was under water, or in this case gas, and can’t be trusted.

Just speculating from your description. Keep us posted as you get deeper in.

And- as for the hatch and motor removal, I’m not sure how much room is in your bilge to access the stuff that needs replacing. In my 340, I believe all could be replaced without an engine removal.

And to clarify, I have never seen a leaking fuel pump as you described.

 

[USMC(ret)]

I wonder why did you bilge pumps not turn on and spray the contents (in this case gas, not water) all over the floor on the rack?

Anytime it’s hauled out & stored, all switches & batteries are secured.

 

[ttmott]

The bilge pumps do not turn off with the battery switches - they are always active unless the cables are removed from the batteries.
Secondly, how does a bilge fill up with gasoline in the rack? Or did it leak when operating the boat and no one noticed.

If your Sindancer is shaft drive then the engines are facing rearward and accessing where the fuel system is mounted is difficult. If your Sundancer is an IO drive the engines face forward and access to the fuel system shouldn't be an issue.

 

[USMC(ret)]

Sindancer

I like this & will use it

She has v-drives.

As far as the bilge pumps always being active, good to know
The service manager is supposed to send me what they saw when opening the engine bay hatch, so I’m anxiously anticipating that.

 

[copb8tx]

Those 6.2's are crammed into a pretty tight space and I would imagine accessing some of the pumps and transducers would be very difficult.

$3K for everything described seems very reasonable to me.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Considering the (lack of) access to the pumps, yes, that is a VERY fair $ amount! Treat them well!

I would ask them to check the anti-siphon valve - yours is most likely the electric one - but they should fail in the closed position. I feel like something else is going on, though...... this is a weird one.

On the flip side... great pictures! Keep focusing on that

 

[USMC(ret)]

Thanks all - I’ll update as this progresses.

 

[PlayDate]

I'm just curious how the high pressure pump leaked 30 gallons of gas into the bilge. That is a lot of fuel and the bilge pumps must have been pumping it out.

If it was like that when you were running the boat....that is as dangerous as it gets. If it leaked while in dry storage......that is another matter.....short of a cut fuel hose.....that should not have happened.

I agree that $3k is a reasonable amount for the work. It is unbelievably difficult to work on that boat given the access.

Great pictures of the family enjoying the day.

 

[Scott215]

3000 is a gift. I don't understand why you're high pressure pump would have been on spraying fuel if the boat was up on a rack it I was under the assumption that the high pressure fuel pump works in conjunction with oil pressure so how did that leak

 

[USMC(ret)]

3000 is a gift. I don't understand why you're high pressure pump would have been on spraying fuel if the boat was up on a rack it I was under the assumption that the high pressure fuel pump works in conjunction with oil pressure so how did that leak

From the way I understand it, the tech(s) went to have a look at my gripe of the frozen pump & broken belt & when they raised the hatch: “surprise” - fuel pool. I assume since I had just filled the tank, it leaked out from whatever is broken on the fuel pump & after they drained & vented the bilge, they went to crank the engine & fuel was spraying in the compartment.

 

[Scott215]

I'm really sorry to hear about what happened I hope you can get it handled and get back on the water that would be great

 

[USMC(ret)]

Yup - that’s a leak under pressure. It’s a still from video & before the engine is turned over, fuel is visibly dripping.

I’ll update what the exact failure is when I know.

 

[Lazy Daze]

See my comment about the AS valve.

If they pull the port engine, they may be able to replace the stbd cool fuel unit with the engine in place. I'd highly suggest doing both.

 

[Bruceflinch]

View attachment 159851
Yup - that’s a leak under pressure. It’s a still from video & before the engine is turned over, fuel is visibly dripping.

I’ll update what the exact failure is when I know.

That Spill will just sponge out in no time…

sorry for your boat issue USMCret. After just doing 2 weeks of boatyoga Maintenance myself, $3K sounds good.

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

With that much fuel pooled in various spots in the ER, I would assume there is some degree of risk of fire/explosion as they work to remove the engine. Given the lack of any real working room on the engines in the 320 it $3000 sounds more than reasonable for a labour estimate.

My last boat had 4.3 mpi's but with outdrives so the engines faced forwards AND there was about 3' of room in front of the engines. Even with that room, Merc decided to put the cool fuel units on the bottom side of the engine where the motor mounts were directly blocking access. Good thing I didn't have to work on them - would not have been fun!

So glad it didn't end in tragedy for your family. Reinforces an old habit of mine to take a quick sniff of the blower's exhaust before hitting the starters - just takes a second.

 

[USMC(ret)]

See my comment about the AS valve.

If they pull the port engine, they may be able to replace the stbd cool fuel unit with the engine in place. I'd highly suggest doing both.

Will do. It’s the starboard engine; I’ve been looking for the anti siphon valve & can’t find it in the sea Ray or Merc parts manual. I did find this:

Anti-siphon valves and electric fuel valves

A long time ago, fellow forum member Stray Cat wrote a post about this little gem, the Parker electric fuel valve that exists on many Sea Ray boats (http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/23308-Parker-Skinner-Fuel-Solenoid-Manual-Overide, picture below). The 3 that are in my 280DA, while they...

clubsearay.com

When I play the video frame by frame, it appears the fuel begins to spray from the base of the fitting to the pump. I believe the o-rings have failed in the 90 elbow:

The pump is clearly operating.

With that much fuel pooled in various spots in the ER, I would assume there is some degree of risk of fire/explosion as they work to remove the engine. Given the lack of any real working room on the engines in the 320 it $3000 sounds more than reasonable for a labour estimate.

My last boat had 4.3 mpi's but with outdrives so the engines faced forwards AND there was about 3' of room in front of the engines. Even with that room, Merc decided to put the cool fuel units on the bottom side of the engine where the motor mounts were directly blocking access. Good thing I didn't have to work on them - would not have been fun!

So glad it didn't end in tragedy for your family. Reinforces an old habit of mine to take a quick sniff of the blower's exhaust before hitting the starters - just takes a second.

yessir-I have done that (sniffing the blower exhaust); maybe not every time if mitigated by other means (eg: engine bay open for an extended period) - but this will become procedure.

 

[boatrboy]

Can you share the video? I’m curious.

 

[USMC(ret)]

Can you share the video? I’m curious.

Just tried copy/paste like I would a picture & no joy. I believe I’d have to upload to YouTube & post a link, but I don’t have a YouTube account.


xYet.x

Edit…just pressed the “easy” button & clicked through the links…

*ETA: talked to the dry stack manager today (he helped me with a previous interest & is a reason I chose the marina I’m at). Asked if he saw/heard of any fuel around my boat while in the rack = “no.”

Told him about the service manager saying there was 30gal of fuel in my bilge & he said, “not surprising 30gal isn’t enough to activate the bilge switches.”

Really? 180lb of fuel? It looks cramped with the engines & generator, but I reckon there’s a lot of floor space down there…

 

[Lazy Daze]

Oh, OK. You have the older style cool fuel setup (pump) which is on your engine's port side, underneath the engine and just inboard of the motor mount on that side. In YOUR case (V-drives) the pump is physically located on the stbd side. So the port engine has the pump (basically) between the two engines and the stbd engine's pump is on the stbd/outboard side.

But, the same premise holds true - might as well replace them both while you're there. With the stbd engine out, it shouldn't be all that bad to replace the port engine's pump w/o removing the engine.

AS valve... if you're looking through engine diagrams you won't find it. It's part of the "boat", not the engine.

However, look at your fuel line as it leaves the tank. You should find a cylindrical device with a electrical connection that's pretty right on the tank or within a few inches of the tank. That's your AS valve. This should be in your boat's owner's manual.

If the AS is working, then gasoline should not have been siphoning into your bilge when the boat was stacked since the power was off.

Although... it's possible that this fuel STARTED to leak while you were still using the boat... and once the boat was stacked, it was just the residual gas in the line that leaked out.