Joining "torque club" - 2002 410DA

[aquadancer]

After some false starts early in the season, it appears that I will be finally going diesel!

Have a deal worked out on a 2002 410DA with 350HP 3126TA's. Hull and mechanical surveys revealed no issues of concern and we are scheduled to close on Thursday. She's now in Somers Point, NJ getting detailed and prepared for delivery.

She was a little of a "Dock Queen" with only 92 hrs on the mains and 12 hrs on the genny. I had extensive discussion with CAT tech during survey regarding low usage and he didn't have any real concerns, other than fresh fluids and replacing a couple of gaskets that looked brittle and had some seepage (getting done now). Local CAT dealer has been doing all annual maintenance and they have complete set of service records.

During seatrials and two surveys we ran the boat for over 6 hrs over a two day period. Boat runs, feels, sounds, handles great!
She turned just over 2800rpm at WOT (31 kts SOG) with 4 big guys, full fuel, and full water.

Weather permitting (looks good as of now), we'll move her to the Chesapeake on Friday.

CAT tech pointed out that Racors 500s used by SR on this boat are of marginal size and recommended replacing with at least the 900 series. Has anyone else heard this / given it any thought ?

This board and its members provide a huge service to boat buyers. While I have not been a frequent poster recently, I printed out and bound a book of relevant posting which I used throughout the process. Many thanks to all those who regularly share their knowledge on this board!

 

[osd9]

Congratulations!!!!!.... :smt038

I remember looking at that 410DA before the owner traded it and had it listed with a broker. My salesman was trying to get him to move earlier.....

You got a nice clean boat......

I've already updated the BIH list....you're now listed with a 410DA......see you then....

As to the 500 vs 900 Racors, from what I've read, bigger is better, but so far, with my limited experience, I haven't had any issues....others with more hours should be able to help.....

good luck and post some pics in file....

 

[ImpulseIII]

Aquadancer,
Congratulations :thumbsup: Where are you on the Chesapeake??

Did you run 31 knots or 31 MPH at WOT? Best I ever got with the same boat as you are getting is 28.5 Knots at WOT (2800RPM) and that was with a slight tail wind.. :smt043

 

[aquadancer]

Thanks for the kind words. This move was way overdue!

Dom - sounds like you the boat. Former owner traded down to a day boat which suits his boating style much better.

Impulse - I am at Summit North on the C&D but we spend quite some time on the Sassy. BTW - 31 kts SOG on my hand-held GPS. No wind to speak of. Felt great!

As an aside, market may be slow for large gas boats, but I understand MM already has a deposit on my 370. And I thought I was getting a good trade number...

 

[Converse48]

Welcome to the wonderful world of torque aquadancer! I have to say that switching from big gassers to the diesels have made all the difference in the world. You will enjoy the new boat! Also, the NJ - Chesapeake trip is always fun... enjoy!

 

[ImpulseIII]

Aquadancer,
Are you coming to BIH next month ??. I misplaced my list!

 

[Four Suns]

Dom has been updating the list but it is the first message of the thread there (he just keeps editing it)

 

[osd9]

Jeremy:

If it's not to late, one other thing just came to mind, . Did you check the Port engine raw water copper/brass (I think) hose in the area where the engine hatch lift actuator mounting bolt rubs up against it? Common problem on the 410DA with CATs. MM in BB had the Ransome folks replace the hose on my 410DA prior to delivery. Not a cheap repair. The pic below is the area I'm talking about....

 

[aquadancer]

Dom,

I checked it out and asked the Ransome tech to pay close attentions. Looks like the bolt has already been reversed at some point and there is no sign of wear.

MM now saying new canvas may not be ready by Fri. Always something...

 

[fwebster]

You got a great boat......410DA's are one of my favorites.

I was suprised when Dominic said his 410 had 500MA Racors on it. My thought is that while they do provide adequate flow if everything is right, they probably will not if you get some sludge and the flow gets reduced. There is no doubt that the 500MA is going to clog to the point of afftecting engine performance much quicker that 900MA's. Whether the added security and piece of mind is worth tha added cost is a question you must answer.

If you do change, but sure to opt for dual 900MA's on each engine.

For now, I wouldn't even throw the lines off the boat without extra Racor elements and some clean diesel fuel for priming them onboard.

 

[tc410]

...Did you check the Port engine raw water copper/brass (I think) hose in the area where the engine hatch lift actuator mounting bolt rubs up against it?....

Dom-

Funny you mention that. My replacement tube sat around all winter. I got it painted a few weeks ago and was going to install it last Friday. Since the CAT tech was over to do the 250hr service, I handed it over to him to replace since he was down there with his tools. Without mentioning that your tech wrapped a piece of rubber around the brass pipe to prevent future chaffing, my tech said, "I think I'll get a piece of rubber out of my truck and wrap that area so this doesn't happen again." Either these two techs from completely different states are that well trained that they think alike, or they tune into CSR to learn from all of us!

CONGRATS Aquadancer...You'll love that 410!

 

[aquadancer]

Thanks for the compliments. I already love the boat and haven't even closed yet. We put over 6 hrs on it during sea trials. Can't wait for the delivery!

Frank - got a case of Racor elements and a nice supply of Power Service Products additives (Diesel 911 and Diesel Kleen) stashed away in my trunk and ready to go.

With respect to 500 vs. 900 series, CAT tech said that if he were buying the boat, it would be an immediate project. I looked at Racor's web side, they suggest minimum flow of HP * 0.18 or 63gph for my engines. 500 series max flow rate is 60gph. I am sure that Racors formula is somewhat padded and self-serving, but...

Maybe I am a little paranoid about fuel issues due to all the problems we experienced with ethanol last season, but I think I am going to look into the larger filters.

Dom, you've been spending some quality time in the engine room lately... seems to me there is plenty of room back there for double 900s - can you confirm?

Give em clean fuel and clean air - and feel the torque!

 

[osd9]

.....Dom, you've been spending some quality time in the engine room lately... seems to me there is plenty of room back there for double 900s - can you confirm?

My guess is that there is plenty of room for a set of double 900MA Racors. Its the 51 year old 220lb human with power tools and ratchets fitting back there to do the install that has me worried... :grin:

.....Give em clean fuel and clean air - and feel the torque!

Hmmmm...clean air....that's my next ER project......guess its time to start a new thread on kleaning those Airseps.....

 

[fwebster]

When planning the installation of the 900MA's, be sure to leave enough space above the filter cannister to remove the T-handle and lid and to remove and insert the new filter......it takes a little more than the heigth of the filter element.

 

[aquadancer]

I officially own the 2002 410DA as of Friday afternoon :smt038

It will remain in Somers Point, NJ for this week while new canvas is getting installed. We'll bring it down to the Chess either Fri or Sat, move our gear, and depart for our annual, week-long upper Bay fireworks trip.

Had a chance to goof around on it for a couple of hours after closing. What a pleasure to run! Close quarters handling was intimidating at first - this boat moves at idle rpm with allot more authority than I am used. However, after a few practice dockings, I am extremelly pleased with how predictable and responsive it is.

We also took it out of the Great Egg Inlet for a quick ocean run. With 4' swells, she ran very nicely at about 21 kts with no pounding, straight track, and just some spray on the windshield.

Only one concern at this point - cockpit, galley, and aft cabin storage appears to be tighter that my old 370 (which by the way sold in less that a week).

 

[osd9]

Jeremy:

Congrats on the closing... :thumbsup:

When we went from our 380 to the 410 we felt the same way about the storage After you are "With" the boat for a while, you will notice that the spaces you now have are bigger. You just need to get used storing your stuff differently.

I have three tuperware tubs under the starboard cockpit seat loaded with stuff. That area is much larger than the 380 seats, however, under the fore and aft cockpit seats you will notice that the area is smaller.

The galley storage needs some shelves under the stove storage area. This on the list of things to do....Higher on the Admiral's than mine, but still...on the list... :grin: If you stick your head all the way in that area and look behind the drawers, you'll find an area large enough to store 2 gallons of water AND a bottle of Port wine... :grin:

Also, if you replace the TV over the refrigerator and the one in the Master, you will gain storage in those spaces also.

Good luck and we'll see you in BIH in a few weeks.....

Oh...do you remember what RPM you were at to get 21 knots? I was in Atlantic City this weekend (beautifull weekend by the way) and found cruising at 2400 RPM's kept her just right.....we were at 22.3- 22.6 knots most of the time. The Ocean was basically flat on Friday and Sunday...even with the strong winds (West is Best)....

 

[aquadancer]

Dom,

We'll figure out the storage thing... we'll need some storage containers for the space under cockpit seats.

We ran at about 2100 rpm and 21-22 kts, a little slower on the way back in against pretty stiff head wind.

I was just playing around and getting a feel for the boat. We ran out to the GE safe-water bell, then turned south to get a feel for some beam seas. You're right about the ocean conditions, very nice ride despite 20+ kts winds. GE inlet had some chop thriugh the channel and breaking waves on the south side shoal. Three SeaTow boats hanging out in the same area - this always makes me a more careful.

Salon TV replacement is high on my list (after bigger Racors) - any thoughts on placing an LCD/DVD combo on the bulkhead facing salon couch - is there access to fish wire through that area? I would then fit out a bottle / glass storage in the old TV space with a tambour door to mach the rest of the galley.

 

[osd9]

2100 RPM and 22 KNOTS... :smt101 .....WOW....I'm not even close to those numbers.....

Do you know what size props you have? Are you other 410DA owners seeing this kind of performance????


There is room behind that wall to fish wire, and I actually thought through that location as my first choice. The admiral wanted other stuff done, and that location required more time for the install than just using the same space above the fridge....below is a picture of an install like you are talking about....

 

[aquadancer]

This is the perfect location, but I'd probably not go quite that large. I am thinking 20" LCD / DVD combo.

My props are Hy-Torq 22 x 23, freshly serviced. Also keep in mind fresh bottom and empty boat (3/4 fuel, 1/2 water, 3 people).

We hit WOT 31 kts+ SOG on my handheld during surveys with similar load.

 

[osd9]

This is another option for the TV location.....a factory option, so you may be able to get the cabinetry from Sea Ray....but it requires moving the mirror....